1931 Bronze Bust of Somali Man

[Shimbiris]

Very intresting I would assume sleeping on your back would be better for “facial symmetry” then your side.

Wondered this myself. Facial asymmetry is an interesting one I haven't done enough reading on but I suspect it's got more to do with the poor diets, poor chewing habits and breathing and oral habits. Can't comment well at all with my current knowledge. But I intuitively agree with you. Would make more sense to lay on your back than on a particular side most of the time all night for your face to form symmetrically.

 

[Based]

Abkow looks like he is straight from the slums of liberia. Maybe it’s the camera lol

 

[LibaanSom]

Abkow looks like he is straight from the slums of liberia. Maybe it’s the camera lol

Nah bro looks pure Somali. This is how majority of people back then looked like. And besides becoming more prone to obesity, nothing really changed.

 

[Saciid]

They had much wider and more robust faces than current Somalis and also quite straight and clear teeth but yes, pastoralists are not as robust as their paleolithic forefathers. This is documented even on the steppes. The HGs of the Pontic-Caspian Steppe were super robust then you immediately do see, from what I recall, a reduction in robusticity with the pastoralists although not as drastic as with farmers elsewhere. They basically get straight, strong teeth and good profiles but not nearly as dense and robust as HGs but not the tooth decay ridden, narrow as heck disasters you see with Neolithic Farmers, for example.



I do agree that tough foods will help and are important, to be honest. Just highlighting the importance of nutrient availability like Weston A. Price noticed. That is indeed why these chaps look more robust and well-formed than 90% of Somalis today, I would argue:

Isn't it possible that this is all just due to genetics? That Somali have more sloping jaws and soft faces due to our DNA? Seen many old pics and most look like modern Somalis, those photos u qouted are the exception. Also Somalis seems one of the "worst" hit populations, but other groups have lived in a modern lifestyle longer than us and others have the same povery problems. Comapre even Somali bantus to Ethnic Somalis and you'll see a big difference @Shimbiris

 

[Shimbiris]

Isn't it possible that this is all just due to genetics? That Somali have more sloping jaws and soft faces due to our DNA? Seen many old pics and most look like modern Somalis, those photos u qouted are the exception. Also Somalis seems one of the "worst" hit populations, but other groups have lived in a modern lifestyle longer than us and others have the same povery problems. Comapre even Somali bantus to Ethnic Somalis and you'll see a big difference @Shimbiris

Somali DNA is pretty much still in the paleolithic the same as everyone else's. There has been very, very little real human evolution since the Neolithic revolution. We are designed to have all of our teeth in our mouths, wide faces, hollow cheeks, wide chins and the rest like everyone else. If not, we would not still be producing wisdom teeth like everyoene else nor specimens like those guys I shared at all. It's just that pastoralism usually isn't as conducive toward this as being HGs. But sure, there are probably some epigenetic factors amok after many, many generations of being like this due to diet but it can most likely be reversed very easily within a few generations a la Pottenger's cats:



And I would contest that we don't actually have a lot of close-ups of normal rural Somalis like the ones I shared. Most of what you see out there are elites and reer magaals who were grain and oil munchers or the odd nomad who may have not been the best nourished. Those guys are great cos they're really good profiles of normal, not sickly or malnourished seeming reer miyi men and it seems apparent that the vast majority have good facial development.

 

[Dima&Damo]

I didn't know Somalis wore stuff like that. I've only seen one person wearing a hide and that was the boqorka gabooye.
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Boqor is a word only used in dhul udug triabal cheiftain's doesn't count

 

[Saciid]

Boqor is a word only used in dhul udug triabal cheiftain's doesn't count

Boqor is used throughout Somaliweyn, but only as a title amongst a single specific lineage, the rest of "Dhal udug" using Islaan, Ugaas, Beeldaaje etc.

 

[Dima&Damo]

Boqor is used throughout Somaliweyn, but only as a title amongst a single specific lineage, the rest of "Dhal udug" using Islaan, Ugaas, Beeldaaje etc.

 

[Saciid]

Somali DNA is pretty much still in the paleolithic the same as everyone else's. There has been very, very little real human evolution since the Neolithic revolution. We are designed to have all of our teeth in our mouths, wide faces, hollow cheeks, wide chins and the rest like everyone else. If not, we would not still be producing wisdom teeth like everyoene else nor specimens like those guys I shared at all. It's just that pastoralism usually isn't as conducive toward this as being HGs. But sure, there are probably some epigenetic factors amok after many, many generations of being like this due to diet but it can most likely be reversed very easily within a few generations a la Pottenger's cats:



And I would contest that we don't actually have a lot of close-ups of normal rural Somalis like the ones I shared. Most of what you see out there are elites and reer magaals who were grain and oil munchers or the odd nomad who may have not been the best nourished. Those guys are great cos they're really good profiles of normal, not sickly or malnourished seeming reer miyi men and it seems apparent that the vast majority have good facial development.

Vast majority of old photos colonial and before u will see are of nomads, Somalis in the 19th and 20th century didn't have a well defined elite, with most leader and notables living the same life standard. I agree with after 1960s tho.

Could u show me some close of up of what u considered good (besides the famous photos of Roland Bonapart). Check my other thread named Soft faces for comparison between Somali-Bantu and ethnic Somalis. Btw, 1935 was extremely low urbanization so the majority were either first gen urbans or rural

 

[Shimbiris]

Vast majority of old photos colonial and before u will see are of nomads, Somalis in the 19th and 20th century didn't have a well defined elite, with most leader and notables living the same life standard. I agree with after 1960s tho.

Could u show me some close of up of what u considered good (besides the famous photos of Roland Bonapart). Check my other thread named Soft faces for comparison between Somali-Bantu and ethnic Somalis. Btw, 1935 was extremely low urbanization so the majority were either first gen urbans or rural

They were a minority, usually no more than 10-30% of any given region but there were always reer magaals and reer tuulo and I've read accounts of their diets. Lots of grains, oils, some dates, starches and other such imports and some of it grown locally like in Koonfur. Yes, some of them, especially in the north, were not rigidly cut off from the Reer Miyi and Miyi folks often assimilated into the towns and went in and out. Hell, half the men on Dhow ships were basically nomads like 5 years earlier but yeah, those folks are still, overall, not a good example of Somalis at their dietary best.

And you have clear close-up examples in those men I shared elsewhere. They are mostly the best profile examples we have where the photographer got up close and had them look to the side and everything. There are others of such quality here and there but they are few and far in-between and it should tell you something that of such a random sampling like 9/10 of the guys have a very good facial structure.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I didn't know Somalis wore stuff like that. I've only seen one person wearing a hide and that was the boqorka gabooye.
View attachment 236981

View attachment 236982

Somalis did wear leopard print, the government before 1991 even incorporated leopard print in military uniform. You know the leopard is the Somali national animal right?


Anyway, this was the Prince of Majeerteenia.

 

[Saciid]

They were a minority, usually no more than 10-30% of any given region but there were always reer magaals and reer tuulo and I've read accounts of their diets. Lots of grains, oils, some dates, starches and other such imports and some of it grown locally like in Koonfur. Yes, some of them, especially in the north, were not rigidly cut off from the Reer Miyi and Miyi folks often assimilated into the towns and went in and out. Hell, half the men on Dhow ships were basically nomads like 5 years earlier but yeah, those folks are still, overall, not a good example of Somalis at their dietary best.

There was no urban center in most of 19th century Somaliweyn, and they still ate way better than most modern folks. Village people shoudn't be included. Reer Magaal were a extremely small minority of the Somali populations until the 20th century. Also, u didn't properly answer the most important question; Why isn't the same for other groups?

And you have clear close-up examples in those men I shared elsewhere. They are mostly the best profile examples we have where the photographer got up close and had them look to the side and everything.
There are others of such quality here and there but they are few and far in-between and it should tell you something that of such a random sampling like 9/10 of the guys have a very good facial structure.

Fair enough, still have some doubts, laakin allahu aclam

 

[Shimbiris]

Reer Magaal were a extremely small minority of the Somali populations until the 20th century. Also, u didn't properly answer the most important question; Why isn't the same for other groups?

To be fair, Reer Magaal were an extremely small minority in most of the world until the 20th century. Like 90% or more of the neighboring Arabian Peninsula was rural too until fairly recently but fair enough. I would also disagree about Somali reer magaals' diets. If you're principally gonna eat things like rice, bread, sauces and plant oils it is best to at least be in the current modern world where they fortify them with vitamins and minerals whereas back then they would have just been straight malnourishing themselves.

Fair enough, still have some doubts, laakin allahu aclam

All I'll say, walaal, is that what's happened to Somalis' facial structure sooner than some other populations is happening all over the world. Even madows and indhoyars long known for their wide, strong-jawed faces are producing more and more long-faced, crooked tooth types by the generation. I strongly recommend reading this book- :



-and watching that video on the cats who degenerated on a poor diet. It's the same basic phenomena as Humans. Within a couple of generations you get crooked teeth, long faces, narrow jaws, crowded mouths, nasal issues... it's not genetic beyond maybe being somewhat epigenetic. Why would people select for being less healthy and less likely to produce viable offspring without modern medicine? But, alxahmdulillah it seems reversible within a handful of generations.