Why we need a new clan census

[Abaq]

One of the reasons Somalia has remained in a mess for so long is many of us bury our heads in the sand and refuse to accept reality. Somalis are a clan based society where clan identity rules supreme no matter what the communist leftists would have us imagine. That isn't necessarily a problem, Allah has created our society like that and it is just one of the ways societies are shaped across the world. The problem occurs when people either misuse this (qabyaalad) or try to deny its existence (fake Somalinimo).

Since idependence, we've been trying to deny this reality. We tried to ban it, we tried to hide it, we tried to force other ideologies, yet it still wouldn't go away. In the end, it blew up in all our faces in 1991. At that point, rather than accept reality, we chose to keep ignoring it at large except for some minor adjustments (4.5). Ilaa ay Soomaalidu run isu sheegto, heshiini mayno. We need to tell each other the truth if we want to true peace and to move on.

To do that, we firstly need a new clan census. The last such one was under colonial rule and there's a reason why the colonialists did it: they new our reality and due to their degree of separation they had no issue accepting it. Before we sit down and decide how we will live together as a state and share resources, we firstly need to know sida loo kala badan yahay iyo sida loo kala deggen yahay. We need a new clan census.

India, another tribal based society along caste lines, recently just published it's first caste census since indepenedence (the last one under the British was in 1931). Ironically, the so-called upper caste laandheeres only formed 15% of the population and the looma-ooyaan lower castes formed 85% https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...census-in-india-threatens-modis-grip-on-power

 

[mohamedismail]

I totally agree a fair clan and region census needs to be done. It would be really interesting to see the on the ground population of clans in different regions.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Whilst I agree we need a census for educational and political purposes. There is many things you say that outright wrong.

Allah has created our society like that and it is just one of the ways societies are shaped across the world. The problem occurs when people either misuse this (qabyaalad) or try to deny its existence (fake Somalinimo).

Allah did not create qabil humans did there was a time somalis existed prior to qabil. Qabil serves more as an primitive political structure where people are more loyal to blood ties than nationhood or ideology.

The problem with political qabil is it cannot create a society where multiple qabils live together equally it always leads to resentment or separatism(Somaliland). Either one qabil dominates another(4.5) or they fight for influence.

Since idependence, we've been trying to deny this reality. We tried to ban it, we tried to hide it, we tried to force other ideologies, yet it still wouldn't go away. In the end, it blew up in all our faces in 1991. At that point, rather than accept reality, we chose to keep ignoring it at large except for some minor adjustments (4.5). Ilaa ay Soomaalidu run isu sheegto, heshiini mayno. We need to tell each other the truth if we want to true peace and to move on.

Somalis are not the only people who had a system like qabil. In Europe when they banned cousin marriage it helped to dismantle the clan structure. In japan as they were industrialising they left behind their clan structure.

It has been done once and could be done in our case.

India, another tribal based society along caste lines, recently just published it's first caste census since indepenedence (the last one under the British was in 1931). Ironically, the so-called upper caste laandheeres only formed 15% of the population and the looma-ooyaan lower castes formed 85%

You shouldnt be using india as an example as their caste system is a horrific oppressive system that values people depending on what family they were born into.

 

[Abaq]

Whilst I agree we need a census for educational and political purposes. There is many things you say that outright wrong.


Allah did not create qabil humans did there was a time somalis existed prior to qabil. Qabil serves more as an primitive political structure where people are more loyal to blood ties than nationhood or ideology.

The problem with political qabil is it cannot create a society where multiple qabils live together equally it always leads to resentment or separatism(Somaliland). Either one qabil dominates another(4.5) or they fight for influence.

Somalis are not the only people who had a system like qabil. In Europe when they banned cousin marriage it helped to dismantle the clan structure. In japan as they were industrialising they left behind their clan structure.

It has been done once and could be done in our case.

You shouldnt be using india as an example as their caste system is a horrific oppressive system that values people depending on what family they were born into.

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَـٰكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍۢ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَـٰكُمْ شُعُوبًۭا وَقَبَآئِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوٓا۟ ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ أَتْقَىٰكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌۭ ١٣

O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.

You don't even know the basics of the Islamic religion. You are not qualified to speak about Somali affairs. Go learn the basics of our culture and religion first

 

[mohamedismail]

Allah did not create qabil humans did there was a time somalis existed prior to qabil. Qabil serves more as an primitive political structure where people are more loyal to blood ties than nationhood or ideology.

Allah stated in the Qur'an that he made us into qabiils and nations so that we may get to know one another. Not so that we can fight over it and kill one another over qabiil.

Doing a census will allow us to know which regions clans live and there numbers. Which is why it would be good to do this census.

 

[Arkan]

Now how will a census be conducted in places under Shabaab. You're thinking too far ahead. You should be thinking about how to cleanse them first of all.

 

[Internet Nomad]

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَـٰكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍۢ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَـٰكُمْ شُعُوبًۭا وَقَبَآئِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوٓا۟ ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ أَتْقَىٰكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌۭ ١٣

O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.

You don't even know the basics of the Islamic religion. You are not qualified to speak about Somali affairs. Go learn the basics of our culture and religion first

i knew you was going to say that your so predictble.

Qabil serves more as an primitive political structure

The problem with political qabil

I was talking qabil in a politcal system not a social structure where we can identify with another.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Allah stated in the Qur'an that he made us into qabiils and nations so that we may get to know one another. Not so that we can fight over it and kill one another over qabiil.

Doing a census will allow us to know which regions clans live and there numbers. Which is why it would be good to do this census.

When was the birth of Sheikh Isaaq or Darood? These legends serve as the foundation of a qabil system. There were Somalis before them. The reasoning still remains even if they were myths and did not actually exist. Qabil was established by Somalis for whatever motive they may have had at the time. Did Somalis have qabil back when punt or macrobia were around? What qabil were the proto-Somalis?

 

[mohamedismail]

When was the birth of Sheikh Isaaq or Darood? These legends serve as the foundation of a qabil system. There were Somalis before them. The reasoning still remains even if they were myths and did not actually exist. Qabil was established by Somalis for whatever motive they may have had at the time. Did Somalis have qabil back when punt or macrobia were around? What qabil were the proto-Somalis?

Tribe pre dates even Islam. The Arabs had tribes before the coming of Prophet Mohamed PBUH. There were probably tribes before that. But these modern tribes came after Islam came to the horn.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

One of the reasons Somalia has remained in a mess for so long is many of us bury our heads in the sand and refuse to accept reality. Somalis are a clan based society where clan identity rules supreme no matter what the communist leftists would have us imagine. That isn't necessarily a problem, Allah has created our society like that and it is just one of the ways societies are shaped across the world. The problem occurs when people either misuse this (qabyaalad) or try to deny its existence (fake Somalinimo).

Since idependence, we've been trying to deny this reality. We tried to ban it, we tried to hide it, we tried to force other ideologies, yet it still wouldn't go away. In the end, it blew up in all our faces in 1991. At that point, rather than accept reality, we chose to keep ignoring it at large except for some minor adjustments (4.5). Ilaa ay Soomaalidu run isu sheegto, heshiini mayno. We need to tell each other the truth if we want to true peace and to move on.

To do that, we firstly need a new clan census. The last such one was under colonial rule and there's a reason why the colonialists did it: they new our reality and due to their degree of separation they had no issue accepting it. Before we sit down and decide how we will live together as a state and share resources, we firstly need to know sida loo kala badan yahay iyo sida loo kala deggen yahay. We need a new clan census.

India, another tribal based society along caste lines, recently just published it's first caste census since indepenedence (the last one under the British was in 1931). Ironically, the so-called upper caste laandheeres only formed 15% of the population and the looma-ooyaan lower castes formed 85% https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...census-in-india-threatens-modis-grip-on-power

No need to complicate matters. Just maintain, and enforce two age old doctrines:
a) 'Daaqsin' demarcation; this is known, and documented.
b) Nomads to return to their 'deegaan' post drought season instead of settling in another's grazing land. This is the primary source of conflict.

c) A new law ought to be drafted for pesky city dwellers.

Postscript:
Census is a process in modern nation states, of sound civic institutions, and of highly educated citizenry, which we have not, and are not, and regardless of the form it takes at the moment, nomads shall not accept it. One could draft the most brilliant laws for nomads, and so long as they do not comprehend it, it is as good as camel's manure.

Or so I say.

When was the birth of Sheikh Isaaq or Darood? These legends serve as the foundation of a qabil system. There were Somalis before them. The reasoning still remains even if they were myths and did not actually exist. Qabil was established by Somalis for whatever motive they may have had at the time. Did Somalis have qabil back when punt or macrobia were around? What qabil were the proto-Somalis?

 

[Kizaru]

Qabil is primitive. We need to put all these old farts and creatures who encourage the youth to be primitive tribalists in jail or death. These 70 year old illiterate farts have destroyed our country, Made it a shit hole and continue to plague it. It vexes me how far we fell. Why are we still supporting these primitive shaytans.

 

[Kizaru]

Allah stated in the Qur'an that he made us into qabiils and nations so that we may get to know one another. Not so that we can fight over it and kill one another over qabiil.

Doing a census will allow us to know which regions clans live and there numbers. Which is why it would be good to do this census.

We are somali. Thats our clan. Sub clans within the somali clan have made us the bottom of the barrel for everything in human endevour. We need to move on

 

[Removed]

No need to complicate matters. Just maintain, and enforce two age old doctrines:
a) 'Daaqsin' demarcation; this is known, and documented.
b) Nomads to return to the 'deegaan' post drought season instead of settling in another's grazing land. This is the primary source of conflict.

c) A new law ought to be drafted for pesky city dwellers.

Postscript:
Census is a process in modern nation states, of sound civic institutions, and of highly educated citizenry, which we have not, and are not, and regardless of the form it takes at the moment, nomads shall not accept it. One could draft the most brilliant laws for nomads, and so long as they do not comprehend it, it is as good as camel's manure.

Or so I say.

Grazing land being demarcated would seemingly help alot of our problems but its legality under islamic law is questionable.

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

If Somali's had no livestock there would be no gabyalad. One way to get rid of qabyalad is you can only reside in one property, if you have more than one property you will lose all state benefits, that is way there would be no land competition. And make all land state owned and not purchable by any private citizen.

 

[Haragwaafi]

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَـٰكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍۢ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَـٰكُمْ شُعُوبًۭا وَقَبَآئِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوٓا۟ ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ أَتْقَىٰكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌۭ ١٣

O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.

You don't even know the basics of the Islamic religion. You are not qualified to speak about Somali affairs. Go learn the basics of our culture and religion first

Don't quote the words of Allah for your silly views. What you advocate for is basically against islamic principles and words of the prophet ﷺ regarding tribalism or clannism which was the act of jaahilya that's why our neighboring Arab tribal countries don't stoop that low like we have bragging about our clans and bringing it into politics.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Grazing land being demarcated would seemingly help alot of our problems but its legality under islamic law is questionable.

If you could remind me, how it violates Islamic law. Could we not reconcile it?

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Demarcating tribal lands will lead to tribal higher racky, which in turn will lead to social injustice which then will lead to tribal resughnment and tribal conflicts.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

If Somali's had no livestock there would be no gabyalad. One way to get rid of qabyalad is you can only reside in one property, if you have more than one property you will lose all state benefits, that is way there would be no land competition. And make all land state owned and not purchable by any private citizen.

Trotsky's socialism?

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Trotsky's socialism?

Socialism is not necesarrky a bad thing for some cultures. Like a said if Somali's implemented socialism, as long as it doesn't go against Islam that would be my best choice of governence.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Socialism is not necesarrky a bad thing for some cultures. Like a said if Somali's complimented socialism, as long as it doesn't go against Islam that would be my best choice of governence.

Except nomads are natural egalitarians, and will not adhere to socialism, let alone communism aka Trotsky's socialism.