the concept of god

[kaneki]

Imagine if there is a god and he/it forced you into existence, then demanded that you ask for forgiveness for being forced into life with inherent flaws, then to have you reject or disbelieve this precept and then be damned to eternal punishment all while this god knew even before you were born how shitty your life would be and the fact that you'd be going to hell. Quite a concept, eh?

Even scarier is the fact that these believers state that this kind of god that knowingly damns people to hell and forces a shitty existence on an individual provides a basis for our morality.

 

[sosomali]

lol dumbass God doesn't damn anyone to hell. Whoever ends up there can thank himself for not taking the many opportunities that he was given. Go read the Quran

 

[EternalLightX]

lol dumbass God doesn't damn anyone to hell. Whoever ends up there can thank himself for not taking the many opportunities that he was given. Go read the Quran

Please let this individual speak their mind we do not require a justification for verbal abuse your spiteful comments are utterly disgusting. This young individual is clearly distraught by god where he or she is in fear of punishment which he or she justifies as abhorently unfair.

 

[Ferrari]

Please let this individual speak their mind we do not require a justification for verbal abuse your spiteful comments are utterly disgusting. This young individual is clearly distraught by god where he or she is in fear of punishment which he or she justifies as abhorently unfair.

You are very suspicious. I am keeping my eye on you. I don't want to add to the list of the Godless just yet but my guess would be you have issues with Islam. Also you might wanna take your own advise and stop cussing because it is what you are known for here

 

[EternalLightX]

You are very suspicious. I am keeping my eye on you. I don't want to add to the list of the Godless just yet but my guess would be you have issues with Islam. Also you might wanna take your own advise and stop cussing because it is what you are known for here

Haha cussing I only cuss to symbolise my hate to some of the sexist comments which resonate clearly in this forum, do not argue with me young man leave me be, my religion is for my own private affair, like I already stipulated leave me to practice in peace and you to judge elsewhere. My dear leave me be and I will be at peace with you, why don't we get along as people ? Fellow humans side by side who share this amazing planet we call earth.

 

[Ferrari]

Haha cussing I only cuss to symbolise my hate to some of the sexist comments which resonate clearly in this forum, do not argue with me young man leave me be, my religion is for my own private affair, like I already stipulated leave me to practice in peace and you to judge elsewhere. My dear leave me be and I will be at peace with you, why don't we get along as people ? Fellow humans side by side who share this amazing planet we call earth.

I'll as soon as you leave others alone. You are a walking contradiction. You silence people for nothing yet tell them to let others have their opinion. You tell people to leave you alone but attack and cuss others for their opinion. If you want to be left alone, start doing just that.

 

[Burhan]

I'll as soon as you leave others alone. You are a walking contradiction. You silence people for nothing yet tell them to let others have their opinion. You tell people to leave you alone but attack and cuss others for their opinion. If you want to be left alone, start doing just that.

She must be under age or something. Nothing worse than letting kids roam the net unsupervised.

She needs to do her home work and hit the bed.

 

[Admin]

I felt this from January 2013 to September 2015 when I thought I was atheist. My relationship with god during that period can be summed up by a weak wrist and Hitchens book.

 

[Burhan]

Imagine if there is a god and he/it forced you into existence, then demanded that you ask for forgiveness for being forced into life with inherent flaws, then to have you reject or disbelieve this precept and then be damned to eternal punishment all while this god knew even before you were born how shitty your life would be and the fact that you'd be going to hell. Quite a concept, eh?

Even scarier is the fact that these believers state that this kind of god that knowingly damns people to hell and forces a shitty existence on an individual provides a basis for our morality.

In short, society sets norms and rules citizens need to abide by. To break these rules is your option, to pay the price for the faults are expected. You would not blame society for punishing you.

This very forum has rules you need to abide by.

Apply this logic may be things will be a little clearer.

 

[EternalLightX]

I'll as soon as you leave others alone. You are a walking contradiction. You silence people for nothing yet tell them to let others have their opinion. You tell people to leave you alone but attack and cuss others for their opinion. If you want to be left alone, start doing just that.

Ok sowwy

 

[The_Cosmos]

In short, society sets norms and rules citizens need to abide by. To break these rules is your option, to pay the price for the faults are expected. You would not blame society for punishing you.

This very forum has rules you need to abide by.

Apply this logic may be things will be a little clearer.

The analogy only works if we are truly free to act as we will which in the case of god, cannot be the case.

Choice - an act of choosing between two or more possibilities. To add to this and point out the obvious, the idea possibilities should be avoidable for them to be viable otherwise the choice is no choice at all.

Clearing up the easy part, it's time to apply it to the real world and see if it makes sense through the lenses of an omnipotent and omniscient god. For example, if you was given a choice between having a glass of water and having a glass of wine one would suppose that the choice is pretty straightforward but if you believe in an omniscient God who preordained your every move, then it becomes logically problematic. If I choose the glass of wine then that means I can't un-make that choice because Allah has already preordained it. If you can't avoid the choices that you make in this world, they are not really choices. Now, you may claim that god only KNOWS about our choices but he doesn't intervene in them, but then again he already preordained them meaning that they're set in stone which further means that they're unavoidable. Essentially the point I am making is, that whether someone is going to hell or not is really out of their control because they cannot avoid the choices that put them there thanks to the Qadr of Allah. This also renders the whole 'test' meaningless as well for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Inquisitive_]

The question doesn't make sense at all on many different basis, let's dissect them one by one.

If your off the polytheistic atheist Europhile world view, there is no free will, it's part of their doctrine that everything is 'deterministic', the molecules and atoms your made up off and the chemical reactions your not in control off, determines everything about you, including your choice, taste and behaviour.

Hence you have absurdities like 'gay gene' and perhaps soon it will be argued paedophile gene or even worse as we further delve into this crazed never ending abyss of irreversible lunacy.

Hence if you don't believe in God, you have neither choice nor free will, and hence nothing you say can be an 'objective' statement, because in a deterministic world view everything you 'say' 'type' or do are subjective to only your own individual molecular animal make-up and the chemical reactions taking place in your individual body unique to you, which have no control off, and is also part of your doctrine.

An 'objective' statement means you are rising above the bondage of captivity and hence have free-will and choice, go and read your God's Hawkins, Dawkins, Harris quotes there is no 'free will' and their open support for 'determinism', which makes perfect sense in that lunatic world view.

Hence if what your making is an 'objective' statement in this topic, which you obliviously like to think, because an 'objective' statement is proof of free will and choice, then such a statement can only be made with the assumption of the existence of a omnipotent omniscient God because you are rising above the bondage of subjective captivity and determinism.

You have basically proved the existence of God with this very topic, if you argue your statement is not 'objective' and hence subjective which it would be in a deterministic world view, your statement would be subjective to your own unique molecular make up and reactions, in which case, I am missing the point you are actually trying to make here.

It's like you telling me you had a sandwich and bacon for lunch without me even asking you! it's an absurd thing to say, absurd question to ask, because the question itself refutes your premise, because it requires an objective statement, which assumes free-will, which assumes free choice, which assumes the existence of a omnipotent omniscient god.


@VixR @simulacrum

Let me hear your views on this painful conundrum that all your Europhile God's dismiss free will and only believe in determinism which is the only logical conclusion you can come to when your nothing more then molecular atoms in a chemical reaction combustion you have no control over.

I have already quoted to you both in that other thread the quotes from your Europhile God's on this subject of determinism.

@Burhan @Unstable

Do you see why I call this Europhile brain parasite when Somali's believe in this? I have debated a 100 polytheistic Europhile atheist and all of them just like their God's accepted there is no 'free will' only 'determinism' as per religious doctrines

these Somali blind sheeple are the only idiots that are arguing they have free will committing open heresy and apostasy I never seen before in these lunatic circles. take is easy on these people, brain parasite infestation is a painful thing, they are mentally ill and need proper care and treatment.

 

[Burhan]

The question doesn't make sense at all on many different basis, let's dissect them one by one.

If your off the polytheistic atheist Europhile world view, there is no free will, it's part of their doctrine that everything is 'deterministic', the molecules and atoms your made up off and the chemical reactions your not in control off, determines everything about you, including your choice, taste and behaviour.

Hence you have absurdities like 'gay gene' and perhaps soon it will be argued paedophile gene or even worse as we further delve into this crazed never ending abyss of irreversible lunacy.

Hence if you don't believe in God, you have neither choice nor free will, and hence nothing you say can be an 'objective' statement, because in a deterministic world view everything you 'say' 'type' or do are subjective to only your own individual molecular animal make-up and the chemical reactions taking place in your individual body unique to you, which have no control off, and is also part of your doctrine.

An 'objective' statement means you are rising above the bondage of captivity and hence have free-will and choice, go and read your God's Hawkins, Dawkins, Harris quotes there is no 'free will' and their open support for 'determinism', which makes perfect sense in that lunatic world view.

Hence if what your making is an 'objective' statement in this topic, which you obliviously like to think, because an 'objective' statement is proof of free will and choice, then such a statement can only be made with the assumption of the existence of a omnipotent omniscient God because you are rising above the bondage of subjective captivity and determinism.

You have basically proved the existence of God with this very topic, if you argue your statement is not 'objective' and hence subjective which it would be in a deterministic world view, your statement would be subjective to your own unique molecular make up and reactions, in which case, I am missing the point you are actually trying to make here.

It's like you telling me you had a sandwich and bacon for lunch without me even asking you! it's an absurd thing to say, absurd question to ask, because the question itself refutes your premise, because it requires an objective statement, which assumes free-will, which assumes free choice, which assumes the existence of a omnipotent omniscient god.


@VixR @simulacrum

Let me hear your views on this painful conundrum that all your Europhile God's dismiss free will and only believe in determinism which is the only logical conclusion you can come to when your nothing more then molecular atoms in a chemical reaction combustion you have no control over.

I have already quoted to you both in that other thread the quotes from your Europhile God's on this subject of determinism.

@Burhan @Unstable

Do you see why I call this Europhile brain parasite when Somali's believe in this? I have debated a 100 polytheistic Europhile atheist and all of them just like their God's accepted there is no 'free will' only 'determinism' as per religious doctrines

these Somali blind sheeple are the only idiots that are arguing they have free will committing open heresy and apostasy I never seen before in these lunatic circles. take is easy on these people, brain parasite infestation is a painful thing, they are mentally ill and need proper care and treatment.

Beat them up as they deserve. I have no sympathy for people who see themselves as less developed humans per their atheist doctrine.

Keep up the good work.

 

[dhegdheer]

The abrahamic god is a cruel one. Even worse is the manner in which your deeds are judged. The smallest of slights will have you doomed to burn in hell fire for eternity... Talk about over reaction lol

 

[Burhan]

The abrahamic god is a cruel one. Even worse is the manner in which your deeds are judged. The smallest of slights will have you doomed to burn in hell fire for eternity... Talk about over reaction lol

Dhegta, I do realize you never paid attention to what your parents taught you about Islam and God almighty. But just in case, here is a refresher out of the Quran collecting dust on your shelf(to mislead your mom of course and make her think you are a muslim).



"And if Allah were to seize mankind for their wrong-doing, He would not leave on it (the earth) a single moving (living) creature, but He postpones them for an appointed term and when their term comes, neither can they delay nor can they advance it an hour (or a moment). Quran (Surah An-Nahl, Verse 61)"


FACT:

Allah ignores plenty of our sins and is not quick to punish anyone. Out of his grace and kindness, you will come back to bad mouth him or write on the forums enjoying from his boundless mercy.


PS: I got the vitamins delivered to me at work now btw.

Have some decency naayaa and read up your Quran.

 

[Lucifer]

On a level why would God create things that make him mad ? and why would such a powerful entity get angered by the miniscule deeds of a human being ? , a more relevant question would be why does God feel angered at all ? Isn't anger a human emotion, let me add as well why would God need to create human beings for the sole purpose of worshipping him ? since he is God it don't benefit him nor does it decrease anything in him or is it because he is vain ?, this God that has been written about in countless of books is the Ego of nothing but charlatans indeed it is.

And now that we got a deeper understanding of astronomy and space, it's absolutely absurd to think that the whole universe revolves around us !

Earth is but a mere speck of dust in the vast sea of the universe, look at human arrogance all of the universe will cease to exist on yamuul qiyaama judgement day, a day that revolves around who ? us human beings preposterous!, all of the universe will be folded up like a piece of cloth what a laughable concept, humans cutting a bloody path through history because of religion telling people how to live how to eat how to wipe their ass ! enforcing their views on morality when it is all relative, what happens if all diseases are cured a some what of a perfect justice system comes into play, World hunger has been eradicated literacy all over the planet is up to par, of what use is religion then ?

 

[Burhan]

Lucifer, despite the progress in Astronomy and the understanding we gained for the vast Universe, we have yet to see a planet like earth. The claim that Earth is special is based on facts. As for God getting angry, it is how humans can understand the consequence of disobeying their master. Islam teaches How the creator is unlike the creation. But to communicate to us humans in our own languages in God's expectations, the message gets delivered by a human in a human language. WE have messages that communicate to us what the accountability entails. Religion is not the invention of Muslims either. It is human tradition. This is all relative of course(how you see vs how we see). Validating your views with pictures doesn't mean others are wrong. We all have claims to make. But at least US muslins have a text to show that makes the claims. And we take faith in that. The observable universe gives us deeper appreciation of that creator who laid the claims of creating it and setting things up the way it is. We marvel and we worship. You marvel and you hurl insults. Big difference.

 

[Lucifer]

Lucifer, despite the progress in Astronomy and the understanding we gained for the vast Universe, we have yet to see a planet like earth. That Earth is special is based on facts. As for God getting angry, it is how humans can understand a consequence of disobeying their master. Islam teaches How the creator is unlike the creation. But to communicate to us humans in our own languages, God dealt with us at human level to get across the message. WE have messages that communicate to us what the accountability entails. Religion is not the invention of Muslims. It is human tradition. This is all relative of course. Validating your views with pictures doesn't mean others are wrong. We all have claims to make. But at least US muslins have a text to show that makes the claims. And we take faith in that. The observable universe gives us deeper appreciation of that creator who laid the claims of creating it and setting thins up the way it is. We marvel and we worship. You marvel and you hurl insults. Big difference.

Your whole argument falls flat, why get angry with beings you created that have flaws ? it's like telling a child to drive a car knowing full well their not mature enough to drive and they crash and you get angry at them for crashing makes absolute no sense, second point the reason why I mention anger a human emotion do you know how the limbic system works ?, here is a small summary.

The cerebral cortex (cortex) is the thinking part of the brain where logic and judgment reside. It is the outer portion of the brain and is divided into lobes. Think of the cortex as the strategy center of the brain.

The emotional center of the brain is the limbic system. It is located lower in the brain and is considered to be more primitive than the cortex.

When someone is experiencing and expressing anger, he or she is not using the thinking (cortex) part of the brain, but primarily, the limbic center of the brain.

Have you encountered your amygdala today?

Within the limbic system is a small structure called the amygdala, a storehouse for emotional memories. It is also the area of the brain responsible for our “fight or flight” reactions, our natural survival instincts.

The data coming in from the world around us passes through the amygdala where the decision is made whether to send the data to the limbic or cortex area of the brain. If the incoming data triggers enough of an emotional charge, the amygdala can override the cortex, which means the data will be sent to the limbic system causing the person to react using the lower part of the brain.

every time religious people say God gets mad in fact they are indirectly saying that their God is primitive as anger is associated as a primitive human behaviour/emotion.

By the way the whole master and slave relationship is a human construct, one based on extreme narcissim are you saying God is vain and a narcissist ?

last but not least about this planet is the only one like it out there ever heard of proxima B ? have a good read.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/eso-discovers-earth-size-planet-in-habitable-zone-of-nearest-star

 

[Burhan]

Your whole argument falls flat, why get angry with beings you created that have flaws ? it's like telling a child to drive a car knowing full well their not mature enough to drive and they crash and you get angry at them for crashing makes absolute no sense, second point the reason why I mention anger a human emotion do you know how the limbic system works ?, here is a small summary.

The cerebral cortex (cortex) is the thinking part of the brain where logic and judgment reside. It is the outer portion of the brain and is divided into lobes. Think of the cortex as the strategy center of the brain.

The emotional center of the brain is the limbic system. It is located lower in the brain and is considered to be more primitive than the cortex.

When someone is experiencing and expressing anger, he or she is not using the thinking (cortex) part of the brain, but primarily, the limbic center of the brain.

Have you encountered your amygdala today?

Within the limbic system is a small structure called the amygdala, a storehouse for emotional memories. It is also the area of the brain responsible for our “fight or flight” reactions, our natural survival instincts.

The data coming in from the world around us passes through the amygdala where the decision is made whether to send the data to the limbic or cortex area of the brain. If the incoming data triggers enough of an emotional charge, the amygdala can override the cortex, which means the data will be sent to the limbic system causing the person to react using the lower part of the brain.

every time religious people say God gets mad in fact they are indirectly saying that their God is primitive as anger is associated as a primitive human behaviour/emotion.

By the way the whole master and slave relationship is a human construct, one based on extreme narcissim are you saying God is vain and a narcissist ?

last but not least about this planet is the only one like it out there ever heard of proxima B ? have a good read.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/eso-discovers-earth-size-planet-in-habitable-zone-of-nearest-star

Actually, parents give training to their kids and send them to driving schools before they let their kids get into the driver seat. They would not put their kids in danger like that. So your example of parents is an argument for God and strengthens the propositions:

- God introduced himself to man
- God laid out the rules for man
- God made claims and let mankind either believe in that or ignore it
- God said he does not benefit from the worship of man
- God provided the means and skills for man to see through and meet expectations

Then God said:

- Your decisions are your fate.


It is not true that God left man ignorant of what is expected in relation to that same God.


As for the useful information you posted about the biological process of "fight or flight", the creator who enabled such abilities is worthy of worship. You stop at the process, I go beyond the process and who came up with it. You may call that force of Nature, I call it rightly God the creator. It is a matter of perspective brother. Nothing more, nothing less. At least I can back-up my claim with a text uniquely claiming this is how it is whereas you have none.

Allahs says he creates then guides these creatures. This means that all creatures have to have the means to survive. A baby is born, they cry to be fed. A calf gets up and struggles to its mom's tit in few minutes after birth to get milk and not to starve to death etc. Allah leaves nothing to their own devises and there is wisdom in everything including in our very humanness.


Thanks for the Nasa link you posted. They have many renderings of earth-like planets. Nothing for a fact but a guess work based on analysis. For now, we are certain Earth is special.

 

[Lucifer]

Actually, parents give training to their kids and send them to driving schools before they let their kids get into the driver seat. They would not put their kids in danger like that. So your example of parents is an argument for God and strengthens the propositions:

- God introduced himself to man
- God laid out the rules for man
- God made claims and let mankind either believe in that or ignore it
- God said he does not benefit from the worship of man
- God provided the means and skills for man to see through and meet expectations

Then God said:

- Your decisions are your fate.


It is not true that God left man ignorant of what is expected in relation to that same God.


As for the useful information you posted about the biological process of "fight or flight", the creator who enabled such abilities is worthy of worship. You stop at the process, I go beyond the process and who came up with it. You may call that force of Nature, I call it rightly God the creator. It is a matter of perspective brother. Nothing more, nothing less. At least I can back-up my claim with a text uniquely claiming this is how it is whereas you have none.

Allahs says he creates then guides these creatures. This means that all creatures have to have the means to survive. A simple example is how when a baby is born, they cry to be fed. A calf gets up and struggles to its mom's tit tog et milk and not to starve to death etc. Allah leaves nothing to their own devises and there is wisdom in everything including in our very humanness.


Thanks for the Nasa link you posted. They have many renderings of earth-like planets. Nothing for a fact but a guess work based on analysis. For now, we are certain Earth is special.

God introduced him self to men and what is your concrete evidence that god did such a thing ?