the concept of god

Discussion in 'Religion' started by kaneki, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    On a level why would God create things that make him mad ? and why would such a powerful entity get angered by the miniscule deeds of a human being ? , a more relevant question would be why does God feel angered at all ? Isn't anger a human emotion, let me add as well why would God need to create human beings for the sole purpose of worshipping him ? since he is God it don't benefit him nor does it decrease anything in him or is it because he is vain ?, this God that has been written about in countless of books is the Ego of nothing but charlatans indeed it is.

    And now that we got a deeper understanding of astronomy and space, it's absolutely absurd to think that the whole universe revolves around us ! HBj7E.jpg Earth is but a mere speck of dust in the vast sea of the universe, look at human arrogance all of the universe will cease to exist on yamuul qiyaama judgement day, a day that revolves around who ? us human beings preposterous!, all of the universe will be folded up like a piece of cloth what a laughable concept, humans cutting a bloody path through history because of religion telling people how to live how to eat how to wipe their ass ! enforcing their views on morality when it is all relative, what happens if all diseases are cured a some what of a perfect justice system comes into play, World hunger has been eradicated literacy all over the planet is up to par, of what use is religion then ?
     
  2. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372
    Lucifer, despite the progress in Astronomy and the understanding we gained for the vast Universe, we have yet to see a planet like earth. The claim that Earth is special is based on facts. As for God getting angry, it is how humans can understand the consequence of disobeying their master. Islam teaches How the creator is unlike the creation. But to communicate to us humans in our own languages in God's expectations, the message gets delivered by a human in a human language. WE have messages that communicate to us what the accountability entails. Religion is not the invention of Muslims either. It is human tradition. This is all relative of course(how you see vs how we see). Validating your views with pictures doesn't mean others are wrong. We all have claims to make. But at least US muslins have a text to show that makes the claims. And we take faith in that. The observable universe gives us deeper appreciation of that creator who laid the claims of creating it and setting things up the way it is. We marvel and we worship. You marvel and you hurl insults. Big difference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  3. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708

    Your whole argument falls flat, why get angry with beings you created that have flaws ? it's like telling a child to drive a car knowing full well their not mature enough to drive and they crash and you get angry at them for crashing makes absolute no sense, second point the reason why I mention anger a human emotion do you know how the limbic system works ?, here is a small summary.

    The cerebral cortex (cortex) is the thinking part of the brain where logic and judgment reside. It is the outer portion of the brain and is divided into lobes. Think of the cortex as the strategy center of the brain.

    The emotional center of the brain is the limbic system. It is located lower in the brain and is considered to be more primitive than the cortex.

    When someone is experiencing and expressing anger, he or she is not using the thinking (cortex) part of the brain, but primarily, the limbic center of the brain.

    Have you encountered your amygdala today?

    Within the limbic system is a small structure called the amygdala, a storehouse for emotional memories. It is also the area of the brain responsible for our “fight or flight” reactions, our natural survival instincts.

    The data coming in from the world around us passes through the amygdala where the decision is made whether to send the data to the limbic or cortex area of the brain. If the incoming data triggers enough of an emotional charge, the amygdala can override the cortex, which means the data will be sent to the limbic system causing the person to react using the lower part of the brain.

    every time religious people say God gets mad in fact they are indirectly saying that their God is primitive as anger is associated as a primitive human behaviour/emotion.

    By the way the whole master and slave relationship is a human construct, one based on extreme narcissim are you saying God is vain and a narcissist ?

    last but not least about this planet is the only one like it out there ever heard of proxima B ? have a good read.

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/eso-discovers-earth-size-planet-in-habitable-zone-of-nearest-star
     
    Jujuman and The_Cosmos like this.
  4. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    Actually, parents give training to their kids and send them to driving schools before they let their kids get into the driver seat. They would not put their kids in danger like that. So your example of parents is an argument for God and strengthens the propositions:

    - God introduced himself to man
    - God laid out the rules for man
    - God made claims and let mankind either believe in that or ignore it
    - God said he does not benefit from the worship of man
    - God provided the means and skills for man to see through and meet expectations

    Then God said:

    - Your decisions are your fate.


    It is not true that God left man ignorant of what is expected in relation to that same God.


    As for the useful information you posted about the biological process of "fight or flight", the creator who enabled such abilities is worthy of worship. You stop at the process, I go beyond the process and who came up with it. You may call that force of Nature, I call it rightly God the creator. It is a matter of perspective brother. Nothing more, nothing less. At least I can back-up my claim with a text uniquely claiming this is how it is whereas you have none.

    Allahs says he creates then guides these creatures. This means that all creatures have to have the means to survive. A baby is born, they cry to be fed. A calf gets up and struggles to its mom's tit in few minutes after birth to get milk and not to starve to death etc. Allah leaves nothing to their own devises and there is wisdom in everything including in our very humanness.


    Thanks for the Nasa link you posted. They have many renderings of earth-like planets. Nothing for a fact but a guess work based on analysis. For now, we are certain Earth is special.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  5. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    God introduced him self to men and what is your concrete evidence that god did such a thing ?
     
    Jujuman and The_Cosmos like this.
  6. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    Through established traditions in human history, through books given to communities culminating with the Quran. At least, one would be wise to examine the claims without dismissing them first hand.

    It seems human beings no matter when and where they lived, they worshiped God the right way or the wrong way, but God was There amidst them. Greeks had many Gods, Romans similar. Mention any civilization, they worshipped something/someone they named god.

    It is human to worship. It is as if we are born with the instinct to worship God. Islam at least teaches so.
     
  7. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372
    Speaking of Greeks, they had god figure for everything they were amazed with, Like the God of Iron(blacksmiths). They weren't wrong to think Iron was heavenly in the sense that today we know Iron landed on earth from space(in the form of meteorites). Through the Quran Allah stated he sent down Iron from heaven for our Use.

    Every nation, tribes, society, civilization were obsessed with the heaven and God saxib.
     
  8. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    Actually, parents give training to their kids and send them to driving schools before they let their kids get into the driver seat. They would not put their kids in danger like that. So your example of parents is an argument for God and strengthens the propositions:

    So now your back to comparing God again to the likes of human beings, not surprising in the least, and tell me again why does God need to come down and explain things or give training to human beings what makes us so special! that a infinitely powerful being makes time for us primitive lowly earth dwellers.
     
  9. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    Well actually no brother, Allah himself says he gives us parables to understand something. Allah said if the Earth were inhabited by Angels, he would send Angels only to them. Just out of fairness. Human for human, Human for human language so they understand the communique.

    So I am not out of place to give you a parable using a human example.
     
  10. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    So basically words written on paper in books that is your evidence ! nothing scientifically verifiable.

    By the way traditions are human construct not brought down by God but made by humans.

    Definition of tradition:

    an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom)b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable.
     
    Jujuman and The_Cosmos like this.
  11. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    And you are special as a human btw, Allah made you special representative on Earth. That is why the message to re-enforce this honor and make you succeed in life comes in the form of books, quran being the latest. This is big honor and it is why I am an environmentalist among other things hahahahahahaha.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  12. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    Right, Only words written, containing claims no human is well placed to claim. Science makes that case strong for me in that no human being like me(or another entity devoid of intellect) can put something so marvelous as you, an ape, a horse, the earth, the planets, the heavenly stars together etc. It is what is in the book that generates my respect for the creator that I see through nature as well. How good he is.

    Unlike you, I don't use science to replace faith in that creator, I rather use it to re-enforce my beliefs in him. Because he actually says look around you and think. God in his infinite wisdom appeals to my intellect and directs me to examine myself, to look inwards and everything else to strengthen my faith in him. To me, science and religion re-enforce each other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  13. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)

    Yeah i don't think the world let alone the whole universe revolves around us, to make such a claim one has to be arrogant beyond belief, if you want to think that your a special snow flake and the universe will be folded up because your on trial that's up to you, but I know I'm nothing special nor does the universe revolve around me.

    Yes indeed when such a great claim is made i need scientifically verifiable evidence, whereas you operate on blind faith that's where we differ at.
     
    The_Cosmos likes this.
  14. Burhan

    Burhan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    372

    If the Universe expands, it can also contract and fold. Some physicists predicted that scenario and called their prediction "Cosmological Collapse". Perhaps the verse indirectly states that. And even if the verse plainly means that Allah will at some point fold the universe to bring about day of judgment, to me that is given. I do not question the creator since I accepted him in the first place. Nothing is impossible for him to do. I know if I asked special evidence tailored to me so I can have faith in him, that would beat the purpose of the struggle in life with the faith itself as a means to proof my loyalty as a servant of his exercising his free-will. Plus such demands would not be honored as we read in the QURAN how others demanded similar favors so they could believe in God and accept their prophet's messages of faith in the day of judgment.

    As for the ability to recreate something one originated in the first place, we see it happen everyday in our lives. You design something, you keep the schematic, then reproduce that effortlessly if you wanted to. Allah who originates everything is more capable and his claim of recreating fits right within his domain.


    We don't get special evidence tailored to our individual's demands and needs. We get the same evidence everybody got, some of us reject, some of us take faith in it. That is how it was always.


    Thanks for being civil and not having an agenda you come here with other than expressing your views and what you think. I appreciate that you didn't engage in uncivilized behavior. You are entitled to your views as a capable human being and I recognize that. Forgive me for any slight or dig I aimed at you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  15. Lucifer

    Lucifer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Messages:
    526
    Likes:
    708
    I've read about the cosmological collapse, is just a suggested theory that came about through the argument wether the universe will forever keep expanding or stop expanding or eventually cease to exist/collapse in it self, but to me that creates a paradox if this universe collapses in it self will there be a new big bang ? and start up a new universe again and also the physicists are saying this process might take tens of billions of years maybe even trillions of years before the universe collapses in it self or just stop expanding but all of this is mere speculation nothing more, but nonetheless a speculation that concides with the folding up of the universe that is mentioned in the Quran did I sense a twinge of bias confirmation ? maybe...

    Anyway I didn't come on here to convince any one of anything, and even if I wanted to do so it would be a futile effort as I learned the hard way you can't convice no one of nothing, but to me religion is not for me.
     
    The_Cosmos likes this.
Verification:
reCAPTCHA verification is loading. Please refresh the page if it does not load.
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Share This Page