Map of Western Eurasian ancestry across the world

[Nin123]

North Sudanese heavily Eurasian pops
View attachment 319097

So on average they have more Eurasian dna than Somalis?

 

[Garaad Awal]

So on average they have more Eurasian dna than Somalis?

Depends on the ethncity (lots of black African ethnicities) and the individual as many of these Arab groups are very hetregenous

 

[Step a side]

Bit of topic but was the 16 year old East African Roman Auxiliary soldier a proto Somali? I saw these two videos so I was wondering.

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[johnsepei5]

Damn eurasians took over the world

Only uncivilized cut off from the rest of the world madows survived

And the East Asian fierce mongols

 

[Doctorabdi]

Most of the Berbers are 30%+ IBM except the Tunisian Berbers (Arab admixed) and majority of the mountain Berbers across the Maghreb and who makeup 90% of the Amazigh population of Africa, generally are under 10% SSA. It's the Maghrebi Arabs who have heightened SSA ancestry, low IBM & high Natufian

Mountain Berbers:
View attachment 319088


Maghrebi Arabs:
View attachment 319092

IBM is 45 SSA-related right? So it doesn't make much of a difference in terms of clustering, most maghrebis still seem to be 15-25 SSA whether arab or berber

 

[The alchemist]

I've got a question to ask, who were the ancestral north africans? How divergent were they from other fellow african populations? Because ANA+West African is the source of SSA for maghrebis generally speaking correct me if i'm wrong akhi

Ancestral North Africans were a separate African deep genetic variation that was endemic to northwest Africa and probably had a northeast spread deep in the Paleolithic in the olden days.

The ANA received about an equal mix of southwest Asian paleolithic components that back migrated ~25-23 kya producing the Taforalt profile.

To explain a bit more:

Ancient North African (ANA) can be of two things, a population that had Eurasian drift and split off from the OOA group and secluded itself into northwest Africa undergoing considerable drift.

An alternative view that makes room for complexity is that ANA was largely composed of a population that split off from the West and East African lineages in the very early days, and then stayed in North Africa. There the population mixed minorly with some North African basal groups probably descendants of the Jebel Irhoud. Later you had a proto-Basal OOA population coming back to Africa and going into North Africa mixing with the population aforementioned. These people were likely very African-like since this was the early days but shared OOA drift where it took an intermediate stage. Stabilize that concoction through many thousands of years with even more drift then you have what we call Ancient North African. Later you had the southwest Asian paleolithic population coming into North Africa going to that ANA population and thus you have the Iberomaurusians some 25 kya.

The fact that one of the papers could use two models, one with higher Eurasian and a ballpark of 35% West African or have ANA be some population with some Eurasian Drift but be very different from Eurasians and other African macro lineages I think makes my alternative hypothesis very reconcilable.

 

[Doctorabdi]

Ancestral North Africans were a separate African deep genetic variation that was endemic to northwest Africa and probably had a northeast spread deep in the Paleolithic in the olden days.

The ANA received about an equal mix of southwest Asian paleolithic components that back migrated ~25-23 kya producing the Taforalt profile.

To explain a bit more:

Ancient North African (ANA) can be of two things, a population that had Eurasian drift and split off from the OOA group and secluded itself into northwest Africa undergoing considerable drift.

An alternative view that makes room for complexity is that ANA was largely composed of a population that split off from the West and East African lineages in the very early days, and then stayed in North Africa. There the population mixed minorly with some North African basal groups probably descendants of the Jebel Irhoud. Later you had a proto-Basal OOA population coming back to Africa and going into North Africa mixing with the population aforementioned. These people were likely very African-like since this was the early days but shared OOA drift where it took an intermediate stage. Stabilize that concoction through many thousands of years with even more drift then you have what we call Ancient North African. Later you had the southwest Asian paleolithic population coming into North Africa going to that ANA population and thus you have the Iberomaurusians some 25 kya.

The fact that one of the papers could use two models, one with higher Eurasian and a ballpark of 35% West African or have ANA be some population with some Eurasian Drift but be very different from Eurasians and other African macro lineages I think makes my alternative hypothesis very reconcilable.

Thanks abti!

 

[Doctorabdi]

North Sudanese heavily Eurasian pops
View attachment 319097

Your son is 36-37 SSA or at least modeled as so? Cool. Although i'm hella confused if your wife is 11 IBM + 11 SSA wouldn't that be 22 SSA/related added on to the fact that you have 27.5 SSA it would overall be 39.5 (27.5+12)? or 42 SSA
Although as you said you wouldn't truly know the Eurasian/SSA split as natufian does have some SSA.

 

[Doctorabdi]

Ancestral North Africans were a separate African deep genetic variation that was endemic to northwest Africa and probably had a northeast spread deep in the Paleolithic in the olden days.

The ANA received about an equal mix of southwest Asian paleolithic components that back migrated ~25-23 kya producing the Taforalt profile.

To explain a bit more:

Ancient North African (ANA) can be of two things, a population that had Eurasian drift and split off from the OOA group and secluded itself into northwest Africa undergoing considerable drift.

An alternative view that makes room for complexity is that ANA was largely composed of a population that split off from the West and East African lineages in the very early days, and then stayed in North Africa. There the population mixed minorly with some North African basal groups probably descendants of the Jebel Irhoud. Later you had a proto-Basal OOA population coming back to Africa and going into North Africa mixing with the population aforementioned. These people were likely very African-like since this was the early days but shared OOA drift where it took an intermediate stage. Stabilize that concoction through many thousands of years with even more drift then you have what we call Ancient North African. Later you had the southwest Asian paleolithic population coming into North Africa going to that ANA population and thus you have the Iberomaurusians some 25 kya.

The fact that one of the papers could use two models, one with higher Eurasian and a ballpark of 35% West African or have ANA be some population with some Eurasian Drift but be very different from Eurasians and other African macro lineages I think makes my alternative hypothesis very reconcilable.

A more recent paper makes IBM 45 ANA, as natufian is not fully western eurasian and has some african admixture including ANA and Omotic, that paper did not account for that at least from what i've read. IBM seems to be a bit more eurasian than tigrayans on pca charts at least

I've seen models of it being a mixture of a dinka like and west african populations although i'm a noob at this kinda stuff for bare with me and thanks again for your deep knowledge

 

[محمود فارح]

A more recent paper makes IBM 45 ANA, as natufian is not fully western eurasian and has some african admixture including ANA and Omotic, that paper did not account for that at least from what i've read. IBM seems to be a bit more eurasian than tigrayans on pca charts at least

I've seen models of it being a mixture of a dinka like and west african populations although i'm a noob at this kinda stuff for bare with me and thanks again for your deep knowledge

Bro do you know how to read Arabic? Because I will give you tweets I saw today so you can tell me your opinion

 

[The alchemist]

A more recent paper makes IBM 45 ANA, as natufian is not fully western eurasian and has some african admixture including ANA and Omotic, that paper did not account for that at least from what i've read. IBM seems to be a bit more eurasian than tigrayans on pca charts at least

I've seen models of it being a mixture of a dinka like and west african populations although i'm a noob at this kinda stuff for bare with me and thanks again for your deep knowledge

I'm very familiar with the literature. I did not involve Natufian. All of the scenarios were way before the age of Natufian came about. I think Natufian ancestry is overwhelmingly from the Nile Valley instead of viewing it as 27% IBMs moving into the Levant.

 

[World]

Most of the Berbers are 30%+ IBM except the Tunisian Berbers (Arab admixed) and majority of the mountain Berbers across the Maghreb and who makeup 90% of the Amazigh population of Africa, generally are under 10% SSA. It's the Maghrebi Arabs who have heightened SSA ancestry, low IBM & high Natufian

Mountain Berbers:
View attachment 319088


Maghrebi Arabs:
View attachment 319092

I dont know what all these specific tribes and mountains are, just going by the average Northwest African population.

Algerian average is 13 % SSA, plus about 23.4 % IBM. So they're like 23 % SSA in total on average.

North Morocco is about the same, just a bit higher IBM/SSA making them about 25 % SSA in total on average.

South Morocco seems much higher.

 

[Lightshow]

We have zero Eurasian ancestry

Ain't no way that my blue-black people have any Eurasian

Don't you guys shift more towards Eurasians in comparison to other Africans (of course not including Afro-Asiatic groups)?

It might not mean that you are Eurasian admixed, it might just be an ancient connection with the hypothetical basal Eurasians. Also I distinctly remember seeing a Nuer woman having about 15% West Asian in her results. I think it was that Nikki girl on YouTube with the white husband.

 

[Nilotic]

Don't you guys shift more towards Eurasians in comparison to other Africans (of course not including Afro-Asiatic groups)?

I think we only shift toward Eurasians in that regard due to the fact that it was East Africans that ventured out to populate Eurasia

It might not mean that you are Eurasian admixed, it might just be an ancient connection with the hypothetical basal Eurasians.

That seems more plausible

Also I distinctly remember seeing a Nuer woman having about 15% West Asian in her results. I think it was that Nikki girl on YouTube with the white husband.

The Nuer border the Ethiopians and have actually absorbed a small number of Habeshas, so that could explain her results

 

[Garaad Awal]

I dont know what all these specific tribes and mountains are, just going by the average Northwest African population.

You are not going by the average at all you are just going by the cords on Davidski sheet which are from different regions

Algerian average is 13 % SSA, plus about 23.4 % IBM. So they're like 23 % SSA in total on average.
View attachment 319149

These samples are from Algiers and literally include 4 intermediate samples

North Morocco is about the same, just a bit higher IBM/SSA making them about 25 % SSA in total on average.

View attachment 319150

Those are Casablanca Arabs hence the MCA...Atalntic plain Arabs are known for their high Natufian & high SSA

South Morocco seems much higher.
View attachment 319151

These are from various regions in the South (mostly Berber regions hence the low Natufian) and again there's intermediate samples who are less than 10% of the population in the South which again skews the SSA average. Might as well start adding those Andalusi North African samples at this point....


Berbers tend to be under 10% SSA while Arabs generally have substantial SSA ancestry. This is mostly due to the Arab practice of having children with their African concubines which wasnt common among the insular Berbers living in the mountains.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Your son is 36-37 SSA or at least modeled as so? Cool. Although i'm hella confused if your wife is 11 IBM + 11 SSA wouldn't that be 22 SSA/related added on to the fact that you have 27.5 SSA it would overall be 39.5 (27.5+12)? or 42 SSA
Although as you said you wouldn't truly know the Eurasian/SSA split as natufian does have some SSA.

My wife is ~22% IBM on my G25 models & illustrative DNA. Her IBM is low due to Peninsular Arab,Sephardic Jewish & West African ancestries. My model uses a bunch of ancient West Eurasian samples including the more Anatolian-enriched Natufian sample.Perhaps the ANA type of ancestry is being absorbed by that Natufian inflating the West Eurasian ancestry.

 

[Doctorabdi]

You are not going by the average at all you are just going by the cords on Davidski sheet which are from different regions

These samples are from Algiers and literally include 4 intermediate samples

Those are Casablanca Arabs hence the MCA...Atalntic plain Arabs are known for their high Natufian & high SSA

These are from various regions in the South (mostly Berber regions hence the low Natufian) and again there's intermediate samples who are less than 10% of the population in the South which again skews the SSA average. Might as well start adding those Andalusi North African samples at this point....


Berbers tend to be under 10% SSA while Arabs generally have substantial SSA ancestry. This is mostly due to the Arab practice of having children with their African concubines which wasnt common among the insular Berbers living in the mountains.

"Berbers tend to be under 10 SSA while Arabs generally have substantial SSA ancestry" if you include IBM related SSA side it's not that significantly different in terms of african admixture. Kabyles for example are 16 SSA mostly from IBM and minor from bantu related sources. Overall, both ANA/SSA are closely related even "SSA" itself pretty much makes little sense. As ancestral north africans were part of the african diversity similar to east and west africans, to count them separately makes little sense.

It's a difference between very old and recent ancestry african admixture, on pca charts and gedmatch i doubt they will show up much different. The most eurasian shifted maghrebis are still more african shifted than egyptians

 

[Doctorabdi]

My wife is ~22% IBM on my G25 models & illustrative DNA. Her IBM is low due to Peninsular Arab,Sephardic Jewish & West African ancestries. My model uses a bunch of ancient West Eurasian samples including the more Anatolian-enriched Natufian sample.Perhaps the ANA type of ancestry is being absorbed by that Natufian inflating the West Eurasian ancestry.

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[Garaad Awal]

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I have only seen two legitimate tribal Arabs from Algeria and both are roughly 11% SSA. They definitely have heightened SSA compared to the mountain Berbers like the Kabyle,Chaouis etc

 

[Garaad Awal]

"Berbers tend to be under 10 SSA while Arabs generally have substantial SSA ancestry" if you include IBM related SSA side it's not that significantly different in terms of african admixture.

West African ancestry & native IBM ancestry are distinct. There's a reason someone who is 40% IBM looks drastically different than someone who is 20% West African and plots completely different on a pca. IBM ancestry isn't SSA and calling it SSA doesn't seem appropriate at all

Kabyles for example are 16 SSA mostly from IBM and minor from bantu related sources. Overall, both ANA/SSA are closely related even "SSA" itself pretty much makes little sense. As ancestral north africans were part of the african diversity similar to east and west africans, to count them separately makes little sense.

Kabyles are not 16% SSA, they are between 4-5% West African. You can say they are ~20% African which isn't true either as you will have to take into consideration the ANA embedded in Neolithic Anatolians & especially the Natufians/Neolithic Levantines. Most of the West Eurasian samples aren't exactly pure either whether they have ANA,ANE,EHG,AASI,Basal Eurasian etc.

ANA is a distinct form of African ancestry just like South African HG is a distinct form of African ancestry.