I have a controversial take

[Khanderson]

A Somali Muslim would feel closer to a Pakistani Muslim because they share the same faith.
But they won’t feel closer to each other through other reasons. Like language, culture, history and clan.
A non Muslim Somali are still Somali because they can still trace their father lineage (like how Jews can trace their maternal lineage whether the person is an atheist jew or not).
Majority Somalis are Muslim and Islam is part of their culture and history.
But islam is not the only way claim Somalinimo since most Somalis priorities clan identity and always did throughout history.

Discrimination within the clan

Majority Somalis (ethnic Somalis) discriminates minority clans.
Most Bantu Muslims are Muslims but ethnic Somalis don’t want to marry majority of them because of clan discrimination.
All minority clan argue the fact that majority Somalis discriminates them. Even Tomal Somalis (who share connections with the ethnic Somalis) feels some form of discrimination and rejection with the majority Somalis. And mind you they are the main contributors to the Somali world and most them are Muslim but are abandoned because of their status. Bizarre to to say the least.

And lastly islam is universal religion not an ethno religion. But isn’t it funny even Jews claim their own when they’re also atheist Jews.
Because Jews can trace their maternal lineage.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

I truly think it's some type of performative religiosity on behalf of the almost entirely male users who push the "You ain't Somali any more if you leave the religion!" rhetoric.

It's like some sort of macho chest-beating, where they want to further assert their dominance on these Somali apostates.

I can't explain it well, but it doesn't feel sincere at all when I see them two threads later, chatting it up with the few Somali male murtads on here like Yami and Kisame and bonding with them over some commonly held Somali experience growing up.

'Yami' and 'Kisame' aren't even somali, your fixations on trying to be a somali without islam is actually concerning. Stop trying to get the benefits of the package if you cant follow the requirements. This isnt about dominance, its about respect and culture. Somali and Islam are intertwined for someone to want to be around somali spaces and not claim islam you will 100% be looked down upon and you will be tried to fix. OF course you have a community and they will not just let you leave so easily. But when you have it too the point where they are proud Non Muslims openly claiming Somali?? its just confusing... You are missing a massive pillar you cannot spit on your people then in the same breath claim them?? Alxamduliliah Somalis are majority muslim, Somali truly dosent matter Islam is above that we all have 1 destination so many things I can bring up

 

[DojaKhat]

'Yami' and 'Kisame' aren't even somali, your fixations on trying to be a somali without islam is actually concerning. Stop trying to get the benefits of the package if you cant follow the requirements. This isnt about dominance, its about respect and culture. Somali and Islam are intertwined for someone to want to be around somali spaces and not claim islam you will 100% be looked down upon and you will be tried to fix. OF course you have a community and they will not just let you leave so easily. But when you have it too the point where they are proud Non Muslims openly claiming Somali?? its just confusing... You are missing a massive pillar you cannot spit on your people then in the same breath claim them?? Alxamduliliah Somalis are majority muslim, Somali truly dosent matter Islam is above that we all have 1 destination so many things I can bring up

Once again, I've already addressed all of these concerns in Posts #13 and #53.

Good night, oh, and don't forget to take your medication.

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

Of course they are, wtf kind of contraversial take is this?
Don't take what dumb ass extremist say to be the default opinion of fellow Somalis.

I would say as far as Non Muslims are less likely to kill you because of qabiil or terrorism.

I am muslim before yall idiots come for my neck.

 

[MG13]

Of course they are, wtf kind of contraversial take is this?
Don't take what dumb ass extremist say to be the default opinion of fellow Somalis.

Yep some really stupid people in here

 

[NordicSomali]

It’s kufri to associate religion with ethnicity as if religion is in your blood or skin or dna. Allah decides who is Muslim NOT YOU.

 

[DojaKhat]

It’s kufri to associate religion with ethnicity as if religion is in your blood or skin or dna. Allah decides who is Muslim NOT YOU.

No hate, but aren't you gaal yourself?

I vaguely remember you making a certain thread on here that got you cooked by several Muslims in the comments.

Edit: Found it, this one.

If ilaahay doesn’t exist, what would you do tomorrow?

Entertain the idea that he/she/it doesn’t exist, what is your life going to be tomorrow? What are the implications about the cosmos/existence?

www.somalispot.com

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

If Allah swt told his prophet Nooh that his kaffir son that he is not part of his family why would I consider gaal westernized hooyo matalo a somali?

That's a stupid take man!
The prophet's entire lineage, starting from his dad are gaalo! Yet they are all considered Arabs, and even the best of Arabs. How do you explain that?
Why did the Prophet(SAW) not severe ties with his uncle? WHy didn't he disown him?

 

[NordicSomali]

No hate, but aren't you gaal yourself?

I vaguely remember you making a certain thread on here that got you cooked by several Muslims in the comments.

If ilaahay doesn’t exist, what would you do tomorrow?

Entertain the idea that he/she/it doesn’t exist, what is your life going to be tomorrow? What are the implications about the cosmos/existence?

www.somalispot.com

What’s your point? I still didn’t see any coherent argument…

I never said I’m gaal…

Are you able to answer my original reply without referring to a different post?

 

[Haji baris🍛💯]

What’s your point? I still didn’t see any coherent argument…

I never said I’m gaal…

Are you able to answer my original reply without referring to a different post?

She's making assumptions she thinks your a gaal

 

[Angelina]

'Yami' and 'Kisame' aren't even somali, your fixations on trying to be a somali without islam is actually concerning. Stop trying to get the benefits of the package if you cant follow the requirements. This isnt about dominance, its about respect and culture. Somali and Islam are intertwined for someone to want to be around somali spaces and not claim islam you will 100% be looked down upon and you will be tried to fix. OF course you have a community and they will not just let you leave so easily. But when you have it too the point where they are proud Non Muslims openly claiming Somali?? its just confusing... You are missing a massive pillar you cannot spit on your people then in the same breath claim them?? Alxamduliliah Somalis are majority muslim, Somali truly dosent matter Islam is above that we all have 1 destination so many things I can bring up

We’re talking about people’s parentage and not how the community sees them. That’s a separate topic.

Are gaal Somalis ostracized from the community? Yes.

Are they outsiders due to their inability to follow the most important aspect of the Somali identity? Yes.

But are their fathers and mothers no longer their parents? No. Can we lie and say they don’t have the lineage of their father, tribe and ethnicity?No. Is that even halal? Probably not.

 

[DojaKhat]

What’s your point? I still didn’t see any coherent argument…

I never said I’m gaal…

Are you able to answer my original reply without referring to a different post?

Did you even read the full thread before commenting? We're on the same side.

 

[Khanderson]

Very silly posters here.

Islamically, you belong to the tribe of your father and you can’t lie about your abtiris. A gaal still has his father’s abtirsi. He is still his father’s son biologically.

Are Somali gaals seen as beyond the pale and outsider figures when it comes to Somali dhaqan? Yes, they are and I agree to this, since they’ve left behind a huge fundemental part of Somalinimo, but that doesn’t change their biology or abtirsi. Arguing that they’re not socially welcomed into Somali spaces anymore isn’t the same as saying they’re no longer Somali. That’s virtually impossible. Since no one can change ethnic groups. They have a Somali father and therefore are of Somali origin themselves. There is no way to spin it since it’s a lie to say anything else.

This is basic common sense. Even the posters arguing with @DojaKhat know this because when they refer to apostates of Somali origin, they call them ‘Somali gaals’ as well. YOU too acknowledge their Somali origins, so why are we even debating this?

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[Haji baris🍛💯]

We’re talking about people’s parentage and not how the community sees them. That’s a separate topic.

Are gaal Somalis ostracized from the community? Yes.

Are they outsiders due to their inability to follow the most important aspect of the Somali identity? Yes.

But are their fathers and mothers no longer their parents? No. Can we lie and say they don’t have the lineage of their father, tribe and ethnicity?No. Is that even halal? Probably not.

Gaal Somalis are often looked down opon by other religious conservative Muslim Somalis it's just the way it is they think it's eccentric and quaint.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

They'll always be Somali because they have full Somali blood in their veins + traceable qabil. Sorry to break it to the hardliners on here who take the metaphor "If you aren't Muslim, you aren't Somali" literally. It's just meant to communicate that holding onto our Islamic values is of the utmost importance. Not that they're officially banned from claiming Somali lol

The actual question is will they be ever considered as a part of the community during our lifetime, considering how irreligious the world is becoming?

I don't think so, because Islam is a core part of our Somali identity, so there's always gonna be a wedge driven between us and them, the moment they come out as ex-Muslims. We don't have a naturally occurring group of non-Muslims like the Lebanese so the relationship is going to be antagonistic right off the bat, plus the juicy incentive apostates in our community have to smear our name for political clout and get us all killed Ayaan Hirsi style is gonna keep us paranoid and on high-alert

Maybe they'll be considered Somali by the community during the end times, since a lot of our descendants would leave Islam, as the famous hadith says holding onto the diin will become like 'holding onto hot coals' by then.

Absolutely Nuts. Atp would being a somali even matter still absolutely nuts how you are using Hadiths to back your self up. New tactic. Obviously your gonna be somali genetically but whats the point if you cant act somali around other somalis? To be somali is to also be muslim, it is a core part of our identity in fact moreso then somali its self. What wedge is there going to be if this minority is so small they can only say it on random forum ? Play with my mind use all this word, I understand your coping right now but Just like FKD what decides things is whats going IRL not the way you can twist and order your words

No, disowning someone from your family is different from disowning someone from your ethnic/cultural group. The fact of the matter is that we don't have the power to do the latter. We really don't.

Allah (SWT) chose to insert them in our group of people, we can't undo that by implementing laws that attempt to remove their connection to Somalia that was determined from birth.


Who said anything about them being a part of Somali society? Surely, you don't think if someone isn't a part of the community, their original lineage disappears just like that, making them no longer Somali?

We can feel no connection to them as brothers/sisters while not being delusional enough to think they stop being Somali.

Read my first response for my full thoughts (Post #13)

Once again you are attributing Genetics to Somali.
Let me get this clear, to be somali you must be of course apart of somalis follow the culture and things and what not. I mean you can still claim somali but the only differentiating factor is DNA so if youre fine with that pitiful status go ahead.

We are talking about Somali Society, Culture and People here, you are missing that so in the EYES of other somalis you are not somalis overwhelming support. If you have been rejected, or more often willingly left a community of people. Is it fair for you to still claim them outside ? It is you who are deluded, run around with your Cheap DNA kit whats it matter if you cant converse with your own people. And the next generation you have will just stray further and further away from your claimed identity. You are trying to get the Yummy cake without doing the work... Saddening I can only pity you and your attacks against me

Look you are following many common fallacies I can tell,

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

We’re talking about people’s parentage and not how the community sees them. That’s a separate topic.

Are gaal Somalis ostracized from the community? Yes.

Are they outsiders due to their inability to follow the most important aspect of the Somali identity? Yes.

But are their fathers and mothers no longer their parents? No. Can we lie and say they don’t have the lineage of their father, tribe and ethnicity?No. Is that even halal? Probably not.

Im sorry but who was even talking about your last point, if that was the case then of course.
What you fail to realize is if we concede to that, they will automatically believe the other points are true result of pure coping mechanisms. Read carefully what they are saying, the last point of DNA and Genetics is what they always default too when they get challenged and have no proper counter.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

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Woah woah woah woah woahhhhhhh you gotta calm down there buddy that is a wild connection

 

[Wonyluvr]

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Nobody here said that

 

[Khanderson]

Nobody here said that

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[DojaKhat]

Absolutely Nuts. Atp would being a somali even matter still absolutely nuts how you are using Hadiths to back your self up. New tactic. Obviously your gonna be somali genetically but whats the point if you cant act somali around other somalis? To be somali is to also be muslim, it is a core part of our identity in fact moreso then somali its self. What wedge is there going to be if this minority is so small they can only say it on random forum ? Play with my mind use all this word, I understand your coping right now but Just like FKD what decides things is whats going IRL not the way you can twist and order your words


Once again you are attributing Genetics to Somali.
Let me get this clear, to be somali you must be of course apart of somalis follow the culture and things and what not. I mean you can still claim somali but the only differentiating factor is DNA so if youre fine with that pitiful status go ahead.

We are talking about Somali Society, Culture and People here, you are missing that so in the EYES of other somalis you are not somalis overwhelming support. If you have been rejected, or more often willingly left a community of people. Is it fair for you to still claim them outside ? It is you who are deluded, run around with your Cheap DNA kit whats it matter if you cant converse with your own people. And the next generation you have will just stray further and further away from your claimed identity. You are trying to get the Yummy cake without doing the work... Saddening I can only pity you and your attacks against me
View attachment 327872
Look you are following many common fallacies I can tell,

Warya why does your shitty, schizophrenic counter-argument imply that I'm an apostate?