How do ppl not believe in Islam???

Mehdi Hassan

Mehdi Hassan

rational said:
These are all direct quotes.

Here's your reference on the hadith I quoted. https://sunnah.com/muslim/22/152

Anyways, whether it was for "2 black slaves" or "2 non-black slaves". The point remains, your prophet is knee deep in the purchase and trade of human beings.

On your other rebuttal, it doesn't say anything about raping slaves in the Qu'ran because the people who wrote it don't see it as raping slaves. It's their property. Again, no slave can truly consent to relations with a slavemaster - that's just facts. If you cannot see the power imbalance there you are the one who is truly blind.

"Oh no Mr. slavemaster sir, I don't wish to "marry" you...."

Not to mention the case where Muhammad "married" Safiyya bint Huyayy whose husband he had killed. What mental torture that was on that poor woman...

I don't need a Ph.D to see injustice

@Qali save your blessings dear...
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Actually no, the Prophet was only paying for the freedom of a fellow believer. He also had married Saffiyya with her express consent. And she wasn't a slave, again. Further evidence that attests to this is the fact that she was ordered to veil herself, a requirement not for a servant-girl but for a wife. It is clear that you do not only not have a PhD - but you also lack even the most basic of high school diplomas.
 
ا

المهندس

Ayubi said:
Not gonna waste time writing a lot to respond to your bs. Slavery in Islam has already been explained, search it up. You don’t have any objective morals, you shouldn’t even talk about Islam or religion.

Secondly you’re using the same refuted bullshit critics use against Islam about Safiyya. Safiyya (ra) was given the choice to go back to her people or accept Islam and marry the Prophet, she choice to marry the Prophet and accept Islam.


Also the Quran text doesn’t say anything about rape, rape is haram in islam.

Imam Malik said:

In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)

Imam Al Shaafi’i said:

"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)

Thirdly you’re ignorant, concubines throughout history consented to have intercourse and this has been confirmed by non Muslim professionals.

John McClintock said:

Women who followed their father and husbands to the war put on their finest dresses and ornaments previous to an engagement, in the hope of finding favor in the eyes of their captors in case of a defeat. (John McClintock, James Strong, "Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature" [Harper & Brothers, 1894], p. 782)

Matthew B. Schwartz said:

The Book of Deuteronomy prescribes its own rules for the treatment of women captured in war [ Deut 21:10-14 ] . Women have always followed armies to do the soldiers' laundry, to nurse the sick and wounded, and to serve as prostitutes

They would often dress in such a way as to attract the soldiers who won the battle. The Bible recognizes the realities of the battle situation in its rules on how to treat female captives, though commentators disagree on some of the details.

The biblical Israelite went to battle as a messenger of God. Yet he could also, of course, be caught up in the raging tide of blood and violence. The Western mind associates prowess, whether military or athletic, with sexual success.


The pretty girls crowd around the hero who scores the winning touchdown, not around the players of the losing team. And it is certainly true in war: the winning hero "attracts" the women.(Matthew B. Schwartz, Kalman J. Kaplan, "The Fruit of Her Hands: The Psychology of Biblical Women" [Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2007] , pp. 146-147)

Thus we see from two non-Muslim authors that concubines back in the past would consent to having sex with their captors. So if we put aside our 21st century mindset and look at history objectively, there is nothing wrong with saying that concubines back then consented to having sex with their captors.
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He ran with his tails between his legs the murtad.

They bring the most emotionally based illogical argument like you said same recycled xaar.
 
Yahya

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
Walaahi I don't care. It's up to everyone, tho it would be nice to convert someone that's nice and save them.

On qiyama ppl will try to bend their knees to bow but will not be able to. I can't imaging the fear of hellfire, when death itself is so scary. Just the other day I was hearing about a Somali kid that got Corona suddenly and was sent to hospital to die without seeing his family.

Imagine the angel of death approaching you, while you are alone with no one to help you, not even your loved ones.
 
G

GranUltima

rational said:
I will tell you this, when Islam legislates on things like alcohol/pork consumption and what limb to cut off for stealing, but does not explicitly abolish the ownership of HUMANS, it is an oversight so immense that I can dismiss this supposedly "Most-Merciful" deity outright.

"O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female..." Quran (2:178)

Here is Muhammad (a.k.a Allah) using the practice of slavery as a metaphor to differentiate monotheism from polytheism:

"Allah presents an example: a slave owned by quarreling partners and another belonging exclusively to one man - are they equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah ! But most of them do not know." Quran (39:29)

An example showing how "Allah" has blessed the free man over slaves:

"Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know." Quran (16:75)

Enabling the rape of slaves referred to here as "their right hands possess". FYI, a slave can never consent to relations with a slavemaster.

"Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed" Quran (23:6)

Hadith where Muhammad traded 1 slave for 2 black slaves:

"There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)" [Sahih Muslim 1602)

The above hadith was taken from a chapter titled "Chapter: The permissibility of selling animals for animals of the same kind and of different quality" - I will let you come to a conclusion on that.

A hadith where Muhammad admonished a woman for freeing a slave:

"Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Messenger, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles." [Sahih al-Bukhari 2592]

A hadith where Muhammad undid the freeing of a slave because the slavemaster owed a debt:

"A man manumitted a slave and he had no other property than that, so the Prophet canceled the manumission (and sold the slave for him). Nu'aim bin Al-Nahham bought the slave from him." [Sahih al-Bukhari 2415]

---------

Organized religion is the equivalent of fast food, y'all are being feed "100% beef" and surprise surprise, it's not beef.

Never outsource your moral compass,
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Slavery being bad is subjective
 
Octavian

Octavian

Hmm
VIP
GranUltima said:
Yes nothing wrong with murder if u are a atheist but I'm Muslim and it's wrong to kill a person
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correct but atheist still fear death more then we doo as they would've have explain what they have done in their life. Its like teenager explain to his parents why their is meth on the ground and ho0kers in his bed and the many holes in the walls too.
 
Moh

Moh

rational said:
These are all direct quotes.

Here's your reference on the hadith I quoted. https://sunnah.com/muslim/22/152

Anyways, whether it was for "2 black slaves" or "2 non-black slaves". The point remains, your prophet is knee deep in the purchase and trade of human beings.

On your other rebuttal, it doesn't say anything about raping slaves in the Qu'ran because the people who wrote it don't see it as raping slaves. It's their property. Again, no slave can truly consent to relations with a slavemaster - that's just facts. If you cannot see the power imbalance there you are the one who is truly blind.

"Oh no Mr. slavemaster sir, I don't wish to "marry" you...."

Not to mention the case where Muhammad "married" Safiyya bint Huyayy whose husband he had killed. What mental torture that was on that poor woman...

I don't need a Ph.D to see injustice

@Qali save your blessings dear...
Click to expand...
First of all for someone who has no moral compass to make moral arguments is astounding.

Secondly, we need to use the term servant. Once people hear slaves they'll immediately think about the Transatlantic Slavery, which is clearly not the same.

Basically there are four options you have as a Muslim leader when you have won a war. Either you free them, you ask for a compensation to release them, you exchange them with Muslims prisoners that kafirs have or you keep them as a servant. By the way, servants in Islam are treated better than how people are treated in prisons today. Do you release people who have waged war on you and tried to kill your family? Or do you keep them captive, and treat them the way you treat yourself like Allah mentioned? By your analogy prisons shouldn't exist anymore.

Can you please explain where you get your sense of morality from to judge Islam? Are you a moral nihilist? Or do you not even know what you are like most atheists?
 
The_memesiah9

The_memesiah9

Moh said:
First of all for someone who has no moral compass to make moral arguments is astounding.

Secondly, we need to use the term servant. Once people hear slaves they'll immediately think about the Transatlantic Slavery, which is clearly not the same.

Basically there are four options you have as a Muslim leader when you have won a war. Either you free them, you ask for a compensation to release them, you exchange them with Muslims prisoners that kafirs have or you keep them as a servant. By the way, servants in Islam are treated better than how people are treated in prisons today. Do you release people who have waged war on you and tried to kill your family? Or do you keep them captive, and treat them the way you treat yourself like Allah mentioned? By your analogy prisons shouldn't exist anymore.

Can you please explain where you get your sense of morality from to judge Islam? Are you a moral nihilist? Or do you not even know what you are like most atheists?
Click to expand...

Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1661, Grade: Sahih

None of you should say: My slave, for all of you are the slaves of Allah. Rather, you should say: My boy. The servant should not say: My lord, but rather he should say: My chief.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2249, Grade: Sahih

Feed them from the same food you eat and clothe them from the same clothes you wear, and do not torture the creation of Allah the Exalted.

Source: Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 188, Grade: Sahih

What will make you know what is the difficult path to Paradise? It is the freeing of a slave.

Surat Al-Balad 90:12-13

Whoever frees a Muslim slave, then Allah will free every limb of his body from the Hellfire, even his private parts.

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6337, Grade: Sahih

A man who owns a servant girl and he mentors her, teaches her beautiful manners, and educates her in the best way, then he emancipates her and marries her will have a double reward.

Source: Sahih Bukhari 97, Grade: Sahih

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, did not strike a servant nor a woman, and he never struck anything with his hand.

Source: Sunan Ibn Majah 1984, Grade: Sahih

Whoever strikes his slave without limit or slaps him, then the expiation for the sin is to emancipate him.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1657, Grade: Sahih

He will not enter Paradise who is evil to his slaves.

Source: Musnad Ahmad 32, Grade: Hasan
 
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