Class struggle in Somalia? What is the relationship between rich and poor somalis?

M

Marsh

Habane said:
Islam's economic system is neither communist nor greedy capitalist.The religion allows us to have a free market but the welfare system (ie Zakat) and taking care of the needy is ingrained in the Islamic economic model.Income tax is also something that is xaraam in our religion as well
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Is it a free market if their are clear rules and regulations. :hmm:
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

Radical Canjeerorism said:
I literally told you it was capitalism at its most basic form, who cares about the market value? The point is the capitalist will pay you a significantly lower amount than what you worked for, and that is inherently exploitive every. damn book, article, essay and website will tell you that

You are so knee deep in your presumptions and personal opinions that you refuse to acknowledge anything outside of that, creating illogical out of context nitpicks thinking it's a reasonable rebuttal, your lack of any significant source material is telling

All this while throwing personal jabs, breaking every rule of academic discussions, your first two replies were tolerable but it's clear now that you're gradually getting emotional, I don't do debates with emotions, I'm here for some intellectual exchange, not childish internet discourse.

As such I do wish you have a good day, now begone scoundrel.
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And BTW, for your information, most American workers don't make minimum wage. They make WAY more than minimum wage. Yet according to your logic, that should be impossible.

But Marxists will never let something as inconvenient as "facts" get in the way of a good tirade against the evils of the market economy. Go preach your bullshit to naive Starbucks customers. We Somalis know better than that
 
M

Marsh

Kaafiye said:
Yes, of course it is. The term still applies

Although it wouldn't be an all-out anarcho-capitalist state with zero taxes (that's an extreme example), it's still a free market.
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A free market is where their is none or very little goverment affect on the market. If you have to pay a percentage of your wealth each year to feed the needy and their is a cap on how much wealth u can accumulate how can this be seen as free market.
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

The Bloody-Nine said:
A free market is where their is none or very little goverment affect on the market. If you have to pay a percentage of your wealth each year to feed the needy and their is a cap on how much wealth u can accumulate how can this be seen as free market.
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No, there are no caps on how much wealth you can accumulate. None. You could theoretically become a $500 billion man living in Australia.

And yes, some chunk of your money will go towards feeding the needy. That's the price we pay for civilization.

But "feeding the needy" is done through market mechanisms. It is still done through the market (see my other post) and although it's not 100% an anarchist system, it still comes under the definition of being capitalist
 
M

Marsh

Kaafiye said:
No, there are no caps on how much wealth you can accumulate. None. You could theoretically become a $500 billion man living in Australia.

And yes, some chunk of your money will go towards feeding the needy. That's the price we pay for civilization.

But "feeding the needy" is done through market mechanisms. It is still done through the market (see my other post) and although it's not 100% an anarchist system, it still comes under the definition of being capitalist
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Im not taking about Australia im talking about Islam. The quran clearly states those who hoard wealth are promised hellfire so their is a cap on how much wealth you can have. Read my statement once more we are not talking about capitalism we are talking about wheather or not the islamic economic system is a free market.
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

The Bloody-Nine said:
Im not taking about Australia im talking about Islam. The quran clearly states those who hoard wealth are promised hellfire so their is a cap on how much wealth you can have. Read my statement once more we are not talking about capitalism we are talking about wheather or not the islamic economic system is a free market.
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Hoarding wealth means being miserly towards others and not using your wealth to benefit society, or not using it to loan to others

By definition, wealth cannot be hoarded. It's not like you're stuffing your money inside a giant hole in your backyard. Either you spend your money, or you save your money.

If you save your money, then the Bank or Credit Union is taking your cash and loaning it to someone who currently needs it. And that includes entrepreneurs who need capital to expand their businesses

So the money will circulate regardless.
 
Habane

Habane

The Bloody-Nine said:
Im not taking about Australia im talking about Islam. The quran clearly states those who hoard wealth are promised hellfire so their is a cap on how much wealth you can have. Read my statement once more we are not talking about capitalism we are talking about wheather or not the islamic economic system is a free market.
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There is no monetary cap in Islam, you can have as much wealth as you want but our religion encourages us to spend the money especially in good causes like Sadaqah,taking care of the orphans etc

Abu Dawood (1564) narrated from Umm Salamah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “That which reaches the level where zakaah is to be paid and its zakaah is paid, is not kanz (hoarded wealth).” Classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood
 
M

Marsh

Kaafiye said:
Hoarding wealth means being miserly towards others and not using your wealth to benefit society, or not using it to loan to others

By definition, wealth cannot be hoarded. It's not like you're stuffing your money inside a giant hole in your backyard. Either you spend your money, or you save your money.

If you save your money, then the Bank or Credit Union is taking your cash and loaning it to someone who currently needs it

So the money will circulate regardless.
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:ayaanswag:"by definition money cant be hoarded" that's such a dumb statement
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

The Bloody-Nine said:
:ayaanswag:"by definition money cant be hoarded" that's such a dumb statement
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If I have a giant pile of $100 bills, and I leave it in my room, am I hurting society? Let's say I have a big pile of $80 billion sitting in my house.

What if I burned all of that cash? Is society now poorer? The exact opposite is true. Everyone's dollar bills are now worth slightly more.

Only someone who thinks money is actually valuable will consider this to be a dumb statement. THINK
 
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M

Marsh

Why did i even bring up islam when i dont believe in it :francis: . The point I was attempting to make was lets not be for laissez-faire capitalism when it goes against your religion and in my case because it does not help the average person.
 
abdullah233

abdullah233

The Bloody-Nine said:
Im not taking about Australia im talking about Islam. The quran clearly states those who hoard wealth are promised hellfire so their is a cap on how much wealth you can have. Read my statement once more we are not talking about capitalism we are talking about wheather or not the islamic economic system is a free market.
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The actual Islamic Economic model is capitalist its the moral ethics of the faith that encourages donation and helping poor zakat and (jizayih so non-believer funds get redirected to the poor). Islam tackles the biggest flaw in capitalism how to get the rich to redirect their funds instead of hoarding the wealth. It does this by placing moral obligations upon the person to pay money to the poor because if you tax them too high they will leave the country.
There’s a interesting video on this flaw of capitalism on the school of life. The solution the west has for this is rewarding the rich for doing ethical things. In Islam it’s the fear of punishment and the moral obligation to donate that runs the Islamic economic model really interesting stuff!
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

The Bloody-Nine said:
Why did i even bring up islam when i dont believe in it :francis: . The point I was attempting to make was lets not be for laissez-faire capitalism when it goes against your religion and in my case because it does not help the average person.
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Stop redefining the concept of hoarding. In Islam, there's no problem with the accumulation of wealth or assets, as long as you pay your dues. Pay your taxes and give your Sadaqah

Don't confuse that with the standard Marxist approach of nationalizing everything
 
M

Marcus

Kaafiye said:
Stop redefining the concept of hoarding. In Islam, there's no problem with the accumulation of wealth or assets, as long as you pay your dues. Pay your taxes and give your Sadaqah

Don't confuse that with the standard Marxist approach of nationalizing everything
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Some of the Sahaba were very rich. Liberals love to reinterpret Islam just to fit their Marxist agenda.
 
Okoj

Okoj

Kaafiye said:
Stop redefining the concept of hoarding. In Islam, there's no problem with the accumulation of wealth or assets, as long as you pay your dues. Pay your taxes and give your Sadaqah

Don't confuse that with the standard Marxist approach of nationalizing everything
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Whats your opinion on the nordic model?
 
Kaafiye

Kaafiye

Marcus said:
Some of the Sahaba were very rich. Liberals love to reinterpret Islam just to fit their Marxist agenda.
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They do that in order to confuse us. That's their approach

If you challenge the Marxists on their beliefs they'll be like "Oh don't you care about the poor? Don't you care about the disadvantaged?"

I do care about them. That's why I support giving them welfare. That's fundamentally very different than actual Marxism
 
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