Class struggle in Somalia? What is the relationship between rich and poor somalis?

[Marsh]

Obviously, the US is a hegemony and wants to maintain its interests in the world. This has always happened. Seems like all you have is what you view as moral.

What exactly is immoral about capitalism and define what you mean by immoral. It hurts peoples feelings isnt a moral argument.

What do you think the states responsibility to its people are since the people accept the states authority's what should they get in return.

 

[Habane]

Most university’s lean politically left due to donors

These universities atleast here in Canada are publicly funded.It's just that the Cadaan highly educated academics on average tend to be leftists and atheists

 

[Kaafiye]

I took Poli Sci classes and they do teach Karl Marx, I had read some of his work like his Manifesto in Western Political Philosophy.The universities (here in Canada) in general are extremely left-leaning,they force feminism and Qaanis rights on their students.Alxamdulilah I switched out of poli sci into accounting

Why do you think every Somali girl in North America is an open Marxist? Their universities are feeding them this crap. They're brainwashed and our young Somali brothers have smoked too much weed in order to counter their Marxist lies. Let's be honest, how many of us even care about politics? Our sisters are the ones being political, while the brothers simply go to work, and come home to watch sports. That's the reality

They're not used to dealing with Somali men who will stand against this menace. Brothers we need to pull our socks up.

 

[Marsh]

All the supposed negatives you write about are positives. Had the workers any competance, they wouldnt need to work for an employer, theres nothing from stopping the workers from organising and building cooperatives. But reality is, people need to be lead.

You assume they are on equal footing if employees strike they risk not being able to feed their families due to the threat of being replaced while corporations lose a bit of money.

 

[Habane]

Why do you think every Somali girl in North America is an open Marxist? Their universities are feeding them this crap. They're brainwashed and our young Somali brothers have smoked too much weed in order to counter their Marxist lies.

They're not used to dealing with Somali men who will stand against this menace. Brothers we need to pull our socks up.

I'll be honest with you, I gave up on Somali women from the west.They outnumber Somali men in University but the majority of them study wax malaayacni.These women are not meant to be wives, they are a few good muslim Somali women born or raised in the west but sadly they are outnumbered.This is the price Somalis pay for destroying their homeland and fleeing toward gaalo nations.This phenomenon is the exact reason why we are told to live in Muslim countries by our scholars and Shuyuukh.

 

[Marsh]

Marxism is incompatible with religion in general he once said religion is “the opium of the masses”

Capitalism goes against islam aswell but you are defending it.

 

[abdullah233]

Capitalism goes against islam aswell but you are defending it.

No islam actually promotes a controlled version of capitalism akh

 

[Marcus]

What do you think the states responsibility to its people are since the people accept the states authority's what should they get in return.

The state ensures the rights of the citizens and the continuation of the nation state. Look im not a pure free market capitalist. I support universal healthcare, free tuition, social safety nets. I just dont believe in some currencyless utopia where everyone is equal, where everything is organised by the state.

My only ideology is pragmatism.

 

[Marsh]

The state ensures the rights of the citizens and the continuation of the nation state. Look im not a pure capitalist. I support universal healthcare, free tuition, social safety nets. I just dont believe in some currencyless utopia where everyone is equal, where everything is organised by the state.

My only ideology is pragmatism.

Your not capitalist at all

 

[Kaafiye]

You assume they are on equal footing if employees strike they risk not being able to feed their families due to the threat of being replaced while corporations lose a bit of money.

There isn't an infinite supply of workers

Human beings are finite and limited. A company can't just dump 1000 workers and expect to automatically replace them without great cost to themselves

You have to remember, OTHER COMPANIES are competing for those same exact workers. They have to bid up the price in order to attract applicants, and training workers comes at a great cost.

Again, this is another thing Marx got wrong. He treated human beings like interchangeable cogs rather than uniquely skilled individuals. Why the f*ck would I replace my valued employee who has 20 years experience so I can hire an untrained kid? So I could save a few bucks? Do you realize what that'll do to my output?

 

[Habane]

Capitalism goes against islam aswell but you are defending it.

Islam's economic system is neither communist nor greedy capitalist.The religion allows us to have a free market but the welfare system (ie Zakat) and taking care of the needy is ingrained in the Islamic economic model.Income tax is also something that is xaraam in our religion as well

 

[Marcus]

Your not capitalist at all

I'm a muslim.

 

[Kaafiye]

Your not capitalist at all

Actually he is. That's a capitalist model. Unless you're gonna claim that Australia and Canada and Sweden aren't capitalist. They clearly are, and the Islamic societies of 1000 years ago had robust market economies

 

[abdullah233]

Islam's economic system is neither communist nor greedy capitalist.The religion allows us to have a free market but the welfare system (ie Zakat) and taking care of the needy is ingrained in the Islamic economic model.Income tax is also something that is xaraam in our religion as well

It lands in between and probably would be considered welfare capitalism

Actually he is. That's a capitalist model. Unless you're gonna claim that Australia and Canada and Sweden aren't capitalist. They clearly are, and the Islamic societies of 1000 years ago had robust market economies

 

[Kaafiye]

The Godfather of Modern Economics was a man named Ibn Khaldun, who lived in Egypt in the 1300's. His writings is what led to the rise of Adam Smith and the study of economics as a science

A lot of what exists in the West has Islamic foundations, yet these Somali Marxist idiots want to complain about the free market, ignoring the fact that their Somali ancestors were merchants and businessmen in their own right.

 

[Marsh]

Actually he is. That's a capitalist model. Unless you're gonna claim that Australia and Canada and Sweden aren't capitalist. They clearly are, and the Islamic societies of 1000 years ago had robust market economies

The taxes needed to fund those programs would limit the free market so the state would have a large amount of control over the market.

 

[Radical]

Again, what a ridiculously simplified way of looking at an economy. By that logic, a business owner would be guilty of "exploiting" the suppliers of raw materials since he's also charging a premium on these items.

The "market value" of the t-shirt is subjective and it depends from person to person. Your ridiculous analogy doesn't seem to include the fact that the price of the t-shirt can vary depending on what the customer wants

According to your flawed logic, if I hire a worker to make a plain white T-shirt, and pay him $5 to make it, that's fine. But if I take that SAME t-shirt, and I put an Air Jordan logo on it, it's now worth 10x the price. Despite the fact that no extra work was done on it, and the materials/shipping/tools was the exact same.

Yet the t-shirt with Michael Jordan's logo on it is somehow worth 10x more. Are the workers in the plant being screwed 10x harder? Is that the logic you're coming with? Why are some shoes worth only a few dollars, while other shoes cost hundreds of dollars? Are the workers for the expensive shoes somehow more valuable than the ones who work for a cheap shoe company?

That's what you can't seem to understand. Value is SUBJECTIVE. You don't know shit about capitalism or else you wouldn't be making such a dumb analogy.

And regarding Singapore. This is a nation that was poorer than most African nations as recently as 1965. If you look at Singapore today, it's like night and day. Yet you have this Communist who's disconnected from reality trying to tell me with a straight face that Singapore sucks and the people are "violently enslaved" by their capitalist overlords

You talk about Capitalism inherently exploiting Asian workers, despite the fact that Chinese incomes have increased more than 10x fold over the past few decades. Former sweatshop workers who used to make shoes have now moved onto higher-paid jobs. Companies like Nike are LEAVING China and relocating to places like Bangladesh where the workers are paid less. If capitalism was responsible for suppressing wages, then why would wage rates increase more than 10x fold in the absence of any Government law mandating it? Why isn't everyone in America getting paid minimum wage if that's what all companies wanted to do? Why are companies paying US workers $25 per hour to work at an office when they could pay them $8 instead? It's the legal minimum right?

You're living in your own reality where water is dry and the deserts are wet. You're full of shit because you point to environmental destruction and make it something unique to capitalism or the West. Humans have been shitting on the environment under any system. The Soviet Union was a notorious polluter and was responsible for all sorts of environmental damage. We're arguing past each other at this point

And yes, I keep bringing up that situation with Australia because it encapsulates how full of shit you are. You posted an article that you didn't bother to read, and it's conclusions contradict everything you're arguing. Aussie incomes were literally going up every single year for 28 years, yet this guy actually posted that link thinking he was dunking on me. You've gotta be kidding me. This tells me that you're more of an ideologue rather than someone searching for the truth.

Yes, you pointing to extreme examples of workers being treated like shit isn't an argument for anything

If that was the case, then why isn't every single worker in America being paid 7 dollars an hour? Most Americans aren't even in Unions, so what's stopping an Accounting Firm from reducing everyone's salary? Or an engineering firm? If profit margins need to be maximized, and if capitalism tends towards suppressing people's wages, then why aren't people being paid the lowest they're legally allowed?

I literally told you it was capitalism at its most basic form, who cares about the market value? The point is the capitalist will pay you a significantly lower amount than what you worked for, and that is inherently exploitive every. damn book, article, essay and website will tell you that

You are so knee deep in your presumptions and personal opinions that you refuse to acknowledge anything outside of that, creating illogical out of context nitpicks thinking it's a reasonable rebuttal, your lack of any significant source material is telling

All this while throwing personal jabs, breaking every rule of academic discussions, your first two replies were tolerable but it's clear now that you're gradually getting emotional, I don't do debates with emotions, I'm here for some intellectual exchange, not childish internet discourse.

As such I do wish you have a good day, now begone scoundrel.

 

[Marcus]

The taxes needed to fund those programs would limit the free market so the state would have a large amount of control over the market.

Capitalism doesnt exclude a large state. Seems like youre purposefully using a narrow definition of capitalism.

 

[Marcus]

I literally told you it was capitalism at its most basic form, who cares about the market value? The point is the capitalist will pay you a significantly lower amount than what you worked for, and that is inherently exploitive every. damn book, article, essay and website will tell you that

You are so knee deep in your presumptions and personal opinions that you refuse to acknowledge anything outside of that, creating illogical out of context nitpicks thinking it's a reasonable rebuttal, your lack of any significant source material is telling

All this while throwing personal jabs, breaking every rule of academic discussions, your first two replies were tolerable but it's clear now that you're gradually getting emotional, I don't do debates with emotions, I'm here for some intellectual exchange, not childish internet discourse.

As such I do wish you have a good day, now begone scoundrel.

"inherently exploitive" you write as if we know what you mean by this. Explain it. The people arent in bondage and are free to leave.

 

[Kaafiye]

The taxes needed to fund those programs would limit the free market so the state would have a large amount of control over the market.

Doesn't matter. The State is "buying" these services through market exchanges. Everytime the State purchases needles, or bedsheets, or towels, or painkillers, or textbooks, or pencils....they're doing it through market exchanges and they're paying market prices.

The way they pay for it is through taxation, but the hospitals/schools exist underneath a capitalist framework.

When the Government gives food to the poor, it's not like they show up to your doorstep with food that they grew themselves. No, the Government gives you a cheque, and then you use that money to buy your food from the private market.

So the same market mechanisms are taking place. It's still capitalist. Canada is still capitalist. The same mechanisms of profit/loss still exist