Christian Hypocrites Criticize Muslims for Kissing Black Stone

[AMusee]

Recently, several washed-up Christian apologists have claimed that it is “polytheism” for Muslims to kiss the Black Stone in Masjid al-Haram. As usual, this criticism of Islam applies equally to their own religion.

Judaism’s holiest site is the Wailing Wall, which is a remaining part of the ancient Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Jews make pilgrimage to the Wall and ritually kiss it. This is because they believe the Temple (including the Wall) marks a place of God’s presence.

Christianity’s holiest site is Jerusalem’s Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The Church marks the site where Christians falsely believe that Jesus was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead.

The Church contains the “Stone of Unction.” It is believed that Jesus’s body was laid on this stone while being prepared for burial.

Christians make pilgrimage to the Church and ritually kiss the Stone of Unction, owing to its perceived connection with God (i.e., Jesus)

Nevertheless, modern Christian thought is based less on a celebration of traditional Christian beliefs and practices than a denigration of Islam (for Christians fear that many of their members will convert to Islam). As a result, Christian apologists use social media to mock Muslims for their practice of making pilgrimage to the Kaaba in Makka, and kissing the black stone (because the stone marks a place of God’s presence).

RELATED: Debunking the Christian “Miracle of Fátima”

Christian apologists claim that Muslim stone-kissing in pilgrimage — as opposed to Christian and Jewish stone-kissing in pilgrimage — represents a type of “paganism” which is at odds with the Bible.

In reality, all the hate that modern Christians direct at Islam (e.g., for stone-kissing, veiling, blasphemy laws) reflects contempt for the Bible, and the premodern Christian and Jewish tradition.

Any modern Christian who values the Bible and associated traditions is bound to convert to Islam, or at least respect it.

https://muslimskeptic.com/2023/07/06/christian-hypocrites-black-stone/

 

[seldiboy]

Hmmmm. Hajj is fardh while there is no Christian pilgrimage that is mandated or even hinted at. Kissing the Stone of Unction is actually a canonical ritual so its done extra-canonically. You could argue that those specific Christians who do so are engaging in polytheism but that it’s not actually a tenet of the religion.

Regardless, none of the acts displayed are actually polytheism.

P.S Conversions to Islam are net neutral. The same amount of people leave the religion as those converting. Furthermore it’s kind of cope to say that it’s Christians converting when the bulk of converts are atheists or Hindus

 

[Garaad diinle]

Calling muslims polytheist while they worship three entities is mad. It get's even weirder than this.

 

[seldiboy]

Calling muslims polytheist while they worship three entities is mad. It get's even weirder than this.

Trinity is not polytheism. You are literally using Sneako as a figure of authority on this

 

[AMusee]

Hmmmm. Hajj is fardh while there is no Christian pilgrimage that is mandated or even hinted at. Kissing the Stone of Unction is actually a canonical ritual so its done extra-canonically. You could argue that those specific Christians who do so are engaging in polytheism but that it’s not actually a tenet of the religion.

Regardless, none of the acts displayed are actually polytheism.

P.S Conversions to Islam are net neutral. The same amount of people leave the religion as those converting. Furthermore it’s kind of cope to say that it’s Christians converting when the bulk of converts are atheists or Hindus

Christian polytheism is from their worshipping a man AS and the trinity. They also worship idols and images the same way other polytheistic religions do.

The kissing is not idolatry but this is in response to a desperate Christian talking point lately.

As usual, you make things up with no evidence and disappear when called it. No it is not neutral it is the fastest growing religion on earth and many former "christians" are embracing Islam. Anyone who exists in the west would know and see this through first hand experience while it is rare for a Muslim to leave Islam, even rarer to leave for christianity which is nonsensical. Everyone know reverts, several, personally who left christianity.

Christian countries are becoming christian minority due to their adherents apostatizing in droves, the vast majority becoming agnostic/atheist. This phenomenon is statistically proven in Christian majority countries especially the west, the ones who stay christian a large percent are christian in name and dont believe or practice at all.

While all studies show Muslim become more religious over time and religiosity is the overwhelming majority.

 

[AMusee]

Trinity is not polytheism. You are literally using Sneako as a figure of authority on this

Yes it is. It is the definition of polytheism. You worship 3 distinct gods and claim its 3 in 1 defying logic.

Christianity is repackaged Greco-Roman mythology using the noble Prophet Isa AS.

They turned Jesus into a greek god like Hercules, half man half god, here to save the world.

This is not even to mention the well-known pagan greco-roman holidays christians still celebrate today.

Dionysus​

In ancient Greek religion and myth, Dionysus (/daɪ.əˈnaɪsəs/; Ancient Greek: Διόνυσος Dionysos) is the god of wine-making. (turning water into wine?)

The religion of Dionysus often included rituals involving the sacrifice of goats or bulls, and at least some participants and dancers wore wooden masks associated with the god. In some instances, records show the god participating in the ritual via a masked and clothed pillar, pole, or tree is used, while his worshipers eat bread and drink wine. (Eating bread as the body of Jesus and drinking wine for his blood?)


For more information on the true Jesus AS historically and his immediate disciples this is an informative video:




and this is an informative video on mimesis, which is christian imitation and adoption of greco-roman religion and myths into their religion:

 

[Garaad diinle]

You are literally using Sneako as a figure of authority on this

Where did i use sneako as a figure of authority? I've simply shared his experience as a former Christine.

Trinity is not polytheism.

Spear me your mental gymnastics. It's text book polytheism and idolatry. It's not only according to muslims but also jews alike.

 

[Nilotic]

This theological debate ought to be interesting

 

[seldiboy]

Christian polytheism is from their worshipping a man AS and the trinity. They also worship idols and images the same way other polytheistic religions do.

The kissing is not idolatry but this is in response to a desperate Christian talking point lately.

As usual, you make things up with no evidence and disappear when called it. No it is not neutral it is the fastest growing religion on earth and many former "christians" are embracing Islam. Anyone who exists in the west would know and see this through first hand experience while it is rare for a Muslim to leave Islam, even rarer for christianity which is nonsensical.

Christian countries are becoming christian minority due to their adherents apostatizing in droves, the vast majority becoming agnostic/atheist. This phenomenon is statistically proven in Christian majority countries especially the west, the ones who stay christian a large percent are christian in name and dont believe or practice at all.

While all studies show Muslim become more religious over time and religiosity is the overwhelming majority.

The growth of Islam is due to birth rates. Not conversion. Maybe your comprehension isn’t great but I said conversion is net neutral, I didn’t comment on the growth of Islam as a whole.

As detailed, especially in the West

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/26/the-share-of-americans-who-leave-islam-is-offset-by-those-who-become-muslim/

32% of Muslims in the West lose their faith in adulthood and a further 18% will identify with no religion at all

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/losing-their-religion

It’s also incredibly naive to believe stats on Islamic apostasy in the Oriental world when it is punishable by death.

Look at Iran with a supposed 99.8% Muslim population

What evidence is there of increasing piety in the Islamic world?

The little salafiyah project funded by the Saudis is futile. Almost every Muslim country has transitioned to some form of secular governance.

Literally the biggest cope. When birth rates tumble in the developing world, it’s over lol

 

[seldiboy]

Where did i use sneako as a figure of authority? I've simply shared his experience as a former Christine.


Spear me your mental gymnastics. It's text book polytheism and idolatry. It's not only according to muslims but also jews alike.

Why would I care for the opinion of yahuud and Mohhamedans.

It’s very simple as to why

1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son.
5. The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
6. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
7. There is only one God.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with “3 in 1”
God is above human logic (<<< Yahuuds and Mohhammedans believe this)

 

[seldiboy]

Christian polytheism is from their worshipping a man AS and the trinity. They also worship idols and images the same way other polytheistic religions do.

The kissing is not idolatry but this is in response to a desperate Christian talking point lately.

As usual, you make things up with no evidence and disappear when called it. No it is not neutral it is the fastest growing religion on earth and many former "christians" are embracing Islam. Anyone who exists in the west would know and see this through first hand experience while it is rare for a Muslim to leave Islam, even rarer to leave for christianity which is nonsensical. Everyone know reverts, several, personally who left christianity.

Christian countries are becoming christian minority due to their adherents apostatizing in droves, the vast majority becoming agnostic/atheist. This phenomenon is statistically proven in Christian majority countries especially the west, the ones who stay christian a large percent are christian in name and dont believe or practice at all.

While all studies show Muslim become more religious over time and religiosity is the overwhelming majority.

1. Jesus is not just a man. He had both a human and divine nature binded in physis.

2. If you believe iconography is idolatry then so is prostrating towards a rock. No one prays TO icons. They simply serve as a reminder to pray to what that icon represents. i.e you don’t pray to a portrait of Jesus but it can help you in your actual praying to the real Jesus

 

[AMusee]

The growth of Islam is due to birth rates. Not conversion. Maybe your comprehension isn’t great but I said conversion is net neutral, I didn’t comment on the growth of Islam as a whole.

As detailed, especially in the West

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/26/the-share-of-americans-who-leave-islam-is-offset-by-those-who-become-muslim/

32% of Muslims in the West lose their faith in adulthood and a further 18% will identify with no religion at all

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/losing-their-religion

It’s also incredibly naive to believe stats on Islamic apostasy in the Oriental world when it is punishable by death.

Look at Iran with a supposed 99.8% Muslim population

View attachment 282206

View attachment 282207
What evidence is there of increasing piety in the Islamic world?

The little salafiyah project funded by the Saudis is futile. Almost every Muslim country has transitioned to some form of secular governance.

Literally the biggest cope. When birth rates tumble in the developing world, it’s over lol

Christians are a peculiar people. While their people have been apostizing en-masse and their countries promoting liberal degeneracy of all kinds, they fantasize about Muslims leaving their faith.

The research shows Christians are leaving their faith, the latest example is the UK being an officially christian minority country.

Most churches are abandoned many being bought by Muslims and converted into Mosques.

It is funny you use Iran, a Shia country as an example. It is no surprise they are becoming secularized as Shi'ism is a false doctrine.

In the vast majority of the Muslim wordl (Sunni) all evidence points to increased religiousity especially among the youth. I have posted several threads on this topics with the latest reearch cobering several regions of the Muslim world.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/experts-finally-admit-it-middle-east-youth-becoming-more-religious.146942/

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/new-faith-survey-in-t%C3%BCrkiye-strong-religious-devotion-despite-decades-of-secularism.145424/

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/latest-arab-youth-survey-less-democracy-and-more-shariah-please.138570/

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/india-islamic-revival-amid-anti-muslim-persecution.139292/

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/muslim-youth-in-south-east-asia-are-more-religious-than-their-parents.137569/

All site the latest western research in the Muslim world.

While the greco-roman religion continues to decline your can obsess about fantasy of Muslim decline in your head against research and facts presented to you.

Now focus on the greco-roman nature of christianity and the polytheism of the trinity. I have shared some informative videos for you in my last post.

 

[AMusee]

Why would I care for the opinion of yahuud and Mohhamedans.

It’s very simple as to why

1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son.
5. The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
6. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
7. There is only one God.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with “3 in 1”
God is above human logic (<<< Yahuuds and Mohhammedans believe this)

You are mentioning 3 distinct gods that are not the other yet in the end erroneously say it is 1. You claim your god was a yahuud and read from the Yahuud scripture yet want us to believe 3 is 1 is perfectly logical, even against your scripture. This is why christianity is failing.

1. Jesus is not just a man. He had both a human and divine nature binded in physis.

2. If you believe iconography is idolatry then so is prostrating towards a rock. No one prays TO icons. They simply serve as a reminder to pray to what that icon represents. i.e you don’t pray to a portrait of Jesus but it can help you in your actual praying to the real Jesus

Yes I know, similiar to Hercules like most greco-roman myths. The son of god and a human woman, a man-god who came to save the world.

In your logic, he created humans sinful and is unable to forgive their inevitable sins without a blood payment to himself and in order to allow himself to forgive his creation he, 1 of the 3 gods, came to earth, committed suicide, to repay himself with his own blood in order to allow himself to forgive his creation.

So the half man half god saved humanity from himself. As forgiveness can only be given by God with a blood payment.

Iconography is idolatry even according to your bible. The mosque we pray towards as a direction of prayer is similiar to the temple the jews (you believe your god was a yahuud) pray towards.

You are comparing places of worship to literal idols, images, statues. Similar to how hindus and every other pagan religion create images and idols as a representation of their gods.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Why would I care for the opinion of yahuud and Mohhamedans.

It’s very simple as to why

1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son.
5. The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
6. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
7. There is only one God.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with “3 in 1”
God is above human logic (<<< Yahuuds and Mohhammedans believe this)

I understand if you don't care about what us muslims would say but ignoring what jews say is yet another symptom of denial. Reminds me of christine who omit the old testament whenever it suites their agenda.

You speak of trinity which literally contradict the first commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. You even broke the second commandment where it says don't make images of your lord. You can't prove your case by using jewish scripture or the old testament since your claim is a later fabrication.

2. If you believe iconography is idolatry then so is prostrating towards a rock. No one prays TO icons. They simply serve as a reminder to pray to what that icon represents. i.e you don’t pray to a portrait of Jesus but it can help you in your actual praying to the real Jesus

Yet another ignorant point. Jews pray towards jerusalem or the wailing wall and us muslims pray towards mecca which is a house of allah. Stop excusing your idolatry.


P.S. I like how you call us Mohhamedans instead of muslims. Let the hidden enmity come to the surface kkk.

 

[seldiboy]

You are mentioning 3 distinct gods that are not the other yet in the end erroneously say it is 1. You claim your god was a yahuud and read from the Yahuud scripture yet want us to believe 3 is 1 is perfectly logical, even against your scripture. This is why christianity is failing.



Yes I know, similiar to Hercules like most greco-roman myths. The son of god and a human woman, a man-god who came to save the world.

In your logic, he created humans sinful and is unable to forgive their inevitable sins without a blood payment to himself and in order to allow himself to forgive his creation he, 1 of the 3 gods, came to earth, committed suicide, to repay himself with his own blood in order to allow himself to forgive his creation.

So the half man half god saved humanity from himself. As forgiveness can only be given by God with a blood payment.

Iconography is idolatry even according to your bible. The mosque we pray towards as a direction of prayer is similiar to the temple the jews (you believe your god was a yahuud) pray towards.

You are comparing places of worship to literal idols, images, statues. Similar to how hindus and every other pagan religion create images and idols as a representation of their gods.

Your reading comprehension is clearly poor. I didn’t say the Father/Son/Holy Spirit is a god. I said each one IS God (the singular).

God the Father came down in a hybrid human/divine nature i.e the Son as God the Father is incomprehensible and unreachable to mere humans. Therefore the only way for us to know Him intimately on Earth was as the Son.

Another misconception is that Jesus’ death was similar to that of a blood sacrifice. Jesus suffers as humans do to serve as an example for humans to emulate. He shows the narrow path of righteousness. It’s not for forgiveness.

Greco-Roman myth is the complete opposite. Humilty and suffering are the opposite of the Greco-Roman virtues that Hercules shows.

Show me where iconography is forbidden in the Bible. Like I have said, icons are not idols since Christians do not worship the icons themselves.

Jesus was Judean. Not a Rabbinic Jew like those today

 

[AMusee]

Your reading comprehension is clearly poor. I didn’t say the Father/Son/Holy Spirit is a god. I said each one IS God (the singular).

God the Father came down in a hybrid human/divine nature i.e the Son as God the Father is incomprehensible and unreachable to mere humans. Therefore the only way for us to know Him intimately on Earth was as the Son.

Another misconception is that Jesus’ death was similar to that of a blood sacrifice. Jesus suffers as humans do to serve as an example for humans to emulate. He shows the narrow path of righteousness. It’s not for forgiveness.

Greco-Roman myth is the complete opposite. Humilty and suffering are the opposite of the Greco-Roman virtues that Hercules shows.

Show me where iconography is forbidden in the Bible. Like I have said, icons are not idols since Christians do not worship the icons themselves.

Jesus was Judean. Not a Rabbinic Jew like those today

I understood the 3in1 it is 3 gods that you used words illogically to claim is 1.

You have just repeated exactly what I have said in other words.

So all of the righteous people mentioned in the bible like Abraham AS did not know god intimately? Yes the Prophets are indeed an example of righteousness for their people and Jesus was indeed that. Christian doctrine says he is the perfect sacrifice and his sacrifice is central the the christian greco-roman religion. The sacrifice and savour of the world, from himself of course.

It is the literal second commandment:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Iconography is literally what is described in it. Iconography as you call it, is what all pagans call their idols. Even Hindus say their idols are just "representation".

No one spoke of modern rabbinic jews but of the people who kept the law of Musa AS, your christian bible includes the jewish bible.

 

[seldiboy]

I understand if you don't care about what us muslims would say but ignoring what jews say is yet another symptom of denial. Reminds me of christine who omit the old testament whenever it suites their agenda.

You speak of trinity which literally contradict the first commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. You even broke the second commandment where it says don't make images of your lord. You can't prove your case by using jewish scripture or the old testament since your claim is a later fabrication.


Yet another ignorant point. Jews pray towards jerusalem or the wailing wall and us muslims pray towards mecca which is a house of allah. Stop excusing your idolatry.


P.S. I like how you call us Mohhamedans instead of muslims. Let the hidden enmity come to the surface kkk.

Thou shalt have no other Gods.
Yep, all three of the Trinity are within one God. No contradiction

And Thou shalt not worship idols
No contradiction either. Portraits and statues are not idols. No one worships inanimate objects. The only reason Mohhamedans believe iconography is idolatry is because of their puritan stance on anything of beauty

 

[AMusee]

Thou shalt have no other Gods.
Yep, all three of the Trinity are within one God. No contradiction

And Thou shalt not worship idols
No contradiction either. Portraits and statues are not idols. No one worships inanimate objects. The only reason Mohhamedans believe iconography is idolatry is because of their puritan stance on anything of beauty

Yes, the greco-roman trinity born out of the grec-roman empire that did not exist in all of history with the Prophets from the children of Israel nor did Jesus himself ever speak of it. It comes into existence under the roman empire who later adopts it as the state religion.

And no pagan community has ever claimed their inanimate objects are their literal gods but representations of it, your interpretation means that the second commandment is nonsensical because even the pagans of old used their idols and images as representations.

So you create idols and images like the pagans, worship them, bow down to them, fill your places of worship with them, yet think it does not apply to you? If it applies to any pagans then it also applies your greco-roman christianity.

Christianity can only exist in ignorance, any study of history or Jesus himself historically would show your following a greco roman religion that uses Jesus as its central theme and have nothing to do with Jesus AS himself or his disciples.

You will find parallels of the stories written anonymously in the new testament to literal greek gods and epics. It is copied verbatim.

That is why in modern times it is prone to mass apostasy. And there is also the nonsensical doctrine of the trinity.

Anyways, check out this video for more information. Also check out actual christian scholars of history and the conclusions they come to.

 

[seldiboy]

I understood the 3in1 it is 3 gods that you used words illogically to claim is 1.

You have just repeated exactly what I have said in other words.

So all of the righteous people mentioned in the bible like Abraham AS did not know god intimately? Yes the Prophets are indeed an example of righteousness for their people and Jesus was indeed that. Christian doctrine says he is the perfect sacrifice and his sacrifice is central the the christian greco-roman religion. The sacrifice and savour of the world, from himself of course.

It is the literal second commandment:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Iconography is literally what is described in it. Iconography as you call it, is what all pagans call their idols. Even Hindus say their idols are just "representation".

No one spoke of modern rabbinic jews but of the people who kept the law of Musa AS, your christian bible includes the jewish bible.

God is above human logic

Abraham did not know God the Father as intimately as the disciples knew God the Son

Icons are not idolatry because we are not worshiping the wood and paint, but what the icon is depicting. So, when we stand before an icon of Christ, the image itself is not divine, rather the person that is depicted is who we pray to.

When you read the second commandment you have to consider the entire passage.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol or likeness of anything in heaven above, or in the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them..." (Exodus 20:4-5)

We see a further elaboration of what is meant by an "idol" in a passage that directly follows:

"You shall not make for yourselves gods of silver, and gods of gold you shall not make for yourselves." (Exodus 20:23)

When God commands Moses to build the first temple, he makes a request that involves placing images in the temple:

"Then you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat." (Exodus 25:18)

Clearly, an "idol" means an image that you worship and serve as a divine being. Images have been permitted and used in worship since the time of Moses. Icons are not idols, they are not gods nor possess a divine nature that we worship. We only worship the one true God who is invisible.

yahuuds are those who use the tanakh and talmud. There’s obviously a separation of the Jews of 30AD and the yahuuds of today

 

[AMusee]

In the videos im sharing, Paul an ex-Christian Muslim brother invites on the most world renowned christian bible scholars to discuss these topics. For anyone interested in the historical Jesus AS and his followers.

It shows that Islam is correct about the historical Jesus, while christianity is a religion created by the greco-roman pagans.