Your solution to African Dictators

[Nilotic]

if youre territory is in a strategic location. and is in anarchy. then you get government/statehood from brute force and blood spilled. if you dont have them it is unlikely to build a state unless the population are docile.

Yes, and why would you need to elevate one man to Emperor status in order to do this?

Effective and accountable force can be used in a democratic system; stability and democracy are not mutually exclusive.

Dictatorships almost invariably morph into ineffective kleptocracies that can't even pay the salaries of the soldiers and police units needed to maintain law and order.

 

[Indeed]

You seem to be equating dictatorship with law & order when history demonstrates that dictatorships routinely contravene the laws of the land and weaken the State in the long run.

You can have an effective police force and a proper judiciary without a dictatorship, so I don't understand these positive associations with dictatorship.

We are talking about Africa here, you can’t compare Africa to Europe North America.

Once Somalia becomes a developed country (maybe in 2100s) then western democracy system can be implemented, with a effective police force etc.

Until then, a different style of leadership is needed.

 

[Kramer]

It's interesting how dictators start of as pretty decent than the older they get the more blood thirsty and harsh they get until they get over thrown.

power corrupts

absolute power corrupts absolutely

 

[Indeed]

Said barre was decent from 1969 to 1978 Something happened after that war with Ethiopia in 1977-1978, he turned into some violate mad man evil guy.

 

[Nilotic]

We are talking about Africa here, you can’t compare Africa to Europe North America.

Once Somalia becomes a developed country (maybe in 2100s) then western democracy system can be implemented, with a effective police force etc.

Until then, a different style of leadership is needed.

So you're banking on mentally ill dictators not destroying the Nation in the interim? You can have an effective technocratic system that is authoritarian, if that's what you want... but a one man dictatorship is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Enter]

I don't think any African Nation has actually ever had democracy, so framing democratic Government as anaemic, weak or ineffective is entirely groundless.

The West was able to impose law & order without dictatorship, so I don't buy the notion that we we need mentally ill dictators in order to stabilise our Nations.

That's because Africa cannot have a democracy. It will fail every single time because it doesn't have the fundamental cultural, societal and economic conditions to establish a "healthy" democracy.

That isn't me knocking Africans. What we describe as successful modern democracies is a unique Western phenomenon that thrives under very specific and special circumstances. They have spent a long time building up institutions and conditioning their people while using the global south as a pressure release valve for all the downfalls of democracy. You can see that even today, they're getting increasingly shaky.

This post-2016 era has pulled the curtains down and exposed Western leadership in its infinite retardation. They're no better than the mouth breathers running Africa, but they have the advantage of being held up by deeply rooted institutions.

A democracy will never ever succeed for any global south country. "Dictators" build countries. Africa should unironically stop asking for for democracy and start asking for a fruitful dictatorship.

 

[Cognitive]

It's interesting how dictators start of as pretty decent than the older they get the more blood thirsty and harsh they get until they get over thrown.

I mean..yeah. That’s just how it played out in every nation’s history.

On topic, well, as an outsider (“admixed” East Asian) and through observations of various forums and related topics I would guess a straight up demonstration would only come out as fruitless. Judging by comments above it also seem to me that an immediate military coup would not be the best choice of option.

How about the mass introduction and exposure of media (not just the viewpoints of European and Americans but the globe) and a reformation of some seemingly old religious elements?
Btw, I know most Northeast African countries already have that but what I’m trying to say is the expansion of these sort of things INTO rural areas, and starting from the youth and teenagers.

Perhaps , only by disassociating oneself with a deep rooted culture can people truly think outside of the box. Increasing collaboration with those outside of the Arab league and EU would probably broaden the perspective, but that also require cooperation of those distant countries and as far as I know, Chinese businessmen are as well exploiting their employed people in some places of East Africa. So maybe the bigger nations would be off the list.

Through that (mass reformation of the educational system and new collaborating partners), the GDP might grow and the students who studied extensively abroad could return with the required knowledge to help better their ancestral lands.

That is, if everything just play out the way I describe.
Last, the “dictators”, as some describe them, would be the last but most important problem. Kinda dumb, but, could they be negotiated with using extensive, detailed papers and accept some terms through peaceful demonstrations? Peaceful demonstrations backed up by the youth who trained sufficiently in military systems abroad (US, Russia, that French thing…etc), that is.
So, after that and with a seemingly balanced society persisting for a while, the “dictator” (or, leader with old-school mentality) dies.

Now, is when the utterly transformed people seize power. It doesn’t have to be a mimic of the western system. Maybe Africans can think of a new type of system that limit one’s direct power but prevents everything turning into a massive cluster-f*ck.

Oh, and about the possible temporary “cultural loss”, well, if the Chinese could somehow find it back after what Mao did, Northeast Africans or just Africans in general certainly can as well. So no worries about that.

 

[GemState]

That's because Africa cannot have a democracy. It will fail every single time because it doesn't have the fundamental cultural, societal and economic conditions to establish a "healthy" democracy.

That isn't me knocking Africans. What we describe as successful modern democracies is a unique Western phenomenon that thrives under very specific and special circumstances. They have spent a long time building up institutions and conditioning their people while using the global south as a pressure release valve for all the downfalls of democracy. You can see that even today, they're getting increasingly shaky.

This post-2016 era has pulled the curtains down and exposed Western leadership in its infinite retardation. They're no better than the mouth breathers running Africa, but they have the advantage of being held up by deeply rooted institutions.

A democracy will never ever succeed for any global south country. "Dictators" build countries. Africa should unironically stop asking for for democracy and start asking for a fruitful dictatorship.

There's something called institutional path dependence, The more you delay a change in institutions the harder it will become to change into something else. Democracy is not something you can choose to implement anytime.

Africa should strive to be real democracies, one party states/dictators are just too dangerous, the risk of imploding isn't worth anything else. Not even 7% yearly GDP growth would be worth it.

Look at:

Kenya v Ethiopia/Somalia
Ghana v Mali
Senegal v Liberia
Tanzania v Congo
Tunisia v Libya

 

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

Here are just a handful of small documentaries on the mental illnesses of African dictators and their blood-chilling crimes:














..So what political infrastructure would you construct to prevent dictators from continuing to assume power in our sad, battered and miserable continent?

The right to bear arms.

 

[World]

Here are just a handful of small documentaries on the mental illnesses of African dictators and their blood-chilling crimes:














..So what political infrastructure would you construct to prevent dictators from continuing to assume power in our sad, battered and miserable continent?

Sub Saharan African countries with democracy, Sub Saharan African countries with authoritarian governments = both shitholes

East/South East Asian countries with democracy, East/South East Asian countries with authoritarian governments = both prosperous

Maybe the problem isn’t our political systems, but our cultures and the people. Our people do not value meritocracy, they value tribalism. A corrupt leader from their tribe is better than a non-corrupt leader that isn’t their tribe, whilst it’s opposite in East/South East Asia.

 

[anon2]

I don't know about other african countries but I know one thing. Somalis need to be beaten into submission for a couple generation by a dictator before anything that's similar to democracy can even be attempted, you need educated masses before who appreciate their country and government above all else before they can be given the right to decide on who can lead them.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

One Word: Education

 

[Nilotic]

That's because Africa cannot have a democracy. It will fail every single time because it doesn't have the fundamental cultural, societal and economic conditions to establish a "healthy" democracy.

I really don't think that the economic and socio-political environment in Africa is inherently incompatible with all forms of democracy, however, we do need significantly more institutional safeguards and guide-rails than anywhere else in the world; and this is precisely why I think that conditional deliberative democracy is a lot more suitable than the general, divisive and contentious form of democracy of the West.

We can't have general elections like the West and we shouldn't have general elections for candidates as representatives or as administrators.

Elections (for policies) should only be held in the form of Citizens Assemblies or in the sortition filled parliament; and the small number of people participating in these Citizens Assemblies elections should have at least graduated from high school; and these people can then come to reasonable conclusions after months of deliberation.

That isn't me knocking Africans. What we describe as successful modern democracies is a unique Western phenomenon that thrives under very specific and special circumstances. They have spent a long time building up institutions and conditioning their people while using the global south as a pressure release valve for all the downfalls of democracy. You can see that even today, they're getting increasingly shaky.

While I understand that, we do have to start somewhere and the quality of our democracies will only improve over time as more of our population is educated and is afforded the opportunities to escape somber poverty.

This post-2016 era has pulled the curtains down and exposed Western leadership in its infinite retardation. They're no better than the mouth breathers running Africa, but they have the advantage of being held up by deeply rooted institutions.

Institutions are filled with people and those people decided that their Nation was far more important than the power mad ideations of a malignant narcissist, so I don't think it's fair to compare them to monsters that have failed the continent for half a century.

Shouldn't we at least try to build strong institutions while avoiding the pitfalls of Western democracies?

A democracy will never ever succeed for any global south country. "Dictators" build countries. Africa should unironically stop asking for for democracy and start asking for a fruitful dictatorship.

The Soviet Union, China and imperial Japan rose as authoritarian States with powerful institutions of their own; they cannot be associated with the Institution free, one man dictatorships of Africa.

I think a lot of you guys want epistocracy rather than dictatorships; there is a difference and treating them as virtual synonyms is unwise.

Dictators don't ever want to leave power; and they'll try their utmost to prevent the citizenry from being educated, enriched and empowered, so the idea that they'll just step aside once a certain developmental threshold has been met is ludicrous.

 

[bidenkulaha]

Well Tunisia has higher education levels, has a more western society and integration, stronger economy than most of Africa and fought for a democratic government (sparking the Arab spring) only to then now become a dictatorship again.

I have little hope for Africans it even Tunisia couldn’t manage the transition to democracy well

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Rwanda and Eritrea are the only truly independent nations in Africa, democracy is a instrument for foreign interverence.

 

[Nilotic]

Well Tunisia has higher education levels, has a more western society and integration, stronger economy than most of Africa and fought for a democratic government (sparking the Arab spring) only to then now become a dictatorship again.

I have little hope for Africans it even Tunisia couldn’t manage the transition to democracy well

Education that is limited to reading, writing, mathematics and science isn't going to safeguard your democracy; you need some sort of people empowering political philosophy that the Nation is socialised in and adheres to from the schools to the Nation's political institutions.

 

[Cognitive]

Education that is limited to reading, writing, mathematics and science isn't going to safeguard your democracy; you need some sort of people empowering political philosophy that the Nation is socialised in and adheres to from the schools to the Nation's political institutions.

Through what method do you think that specific type of knowledge can be introduced to Africans?

Governmental interference exist in educational systems, after all. It is those of power who decide the type of doctrine that the youth ultimately receive. This phenomenon is not limited to Africa. For instance, the government of Taiwan are subtly but surely changing the history of the island (I.e. focusing more on Japanese related history and distancing from those related to the Quings). The Americans on the other hand are preaching (over-preaching inclusivity, if I may) diversity to a whole new level as seen by the comment of Sandra Brook’s child. Obviously the above examples exist because the government recognize the importance of such mentalities. Hence, the ultimate task is to present to the dictator or those in power this new form of knowledge yet being able demonstrate how this thing aid their political agenda.

In short: to wrap a fine layer of flour, sugar and honey on top of the knife’s edge.

Now obviously the prerequisite for this scenario is me assuming immediate military coup being out of the question.

 

[Nilotic]

Through what method do you think that specific type of knowledge can be introduced to Africans?

Governmental interference exist in educational systems, after all. It is those of power who decide the type of doctrine that the youth ultimately receive. This phenomenon is not limited to Africa. For instance, the government of Taiwan are subtly but surely changing the history of the island (I.e. focusing more on Japanese related history and distancing from those related to the Quings). The Americans on the other hand are preaching (over-preaching inclusivity, if I may) diversity to a whole new level as seen by the comment of Sandra Brook’s child. Obviously the above examples exist because the government recognize the importance of such mentalities. Hence, the ultimate task is to present to the dictator or those in power this new form of knowledge yet being able demonstrate how this thing aid their political agenda.

In short: to wrap a fine layer of flour, sugar and honey on top of the knife’s edge.

Now obviously the prerequisite for this scenario is me assuming immediate military coup being out of the question.

Our own non-profit private schools would instill principles, morals and ethics and extol the virtues of human rights, separation of powers, the responsibilities of the citizenry and the corrosive impact of corruption and graft; this would plant the seed for taking back our Countries.

Our mis-leaders may have achieved State capture but we can beat them with social capture and educate the population into new ways of doing things.

An educated population is the only way we can challenge the establishment and the process may take over 20 years.

We can't directly contend with our violent political establishments for official positions and power so we need to create our own parallel political, economic and corporate systems.



I think that unofficial citizen assemblies and un-official sortition members could give local constituents an idea and a taste of what independent, local self-rule actually looks like. An aware, organised and globally interconnected diaspora is essential.

We could establish our own local public banks and liase with qualified members in the diaspora to provide technical expertise in building our own schools, clinics and community owned enterprises.

These local, community-owned cooperatives could be used to fund our own programs, schools and tertiary institutions. We would need to create our own treasury.

A distributed digital ledger could be created and it could be made so that it would allow citizens to see how much money was in our treasury -- in real time. Community accounts that required automatic community consent for the use and transfer of funds -- especially for large figures.

Creating transparent and accountable local, unofficial governments is the only way we could ever hope to redefine political participation, governance, leadership, transparency and accountability.

 

[Basra]

Here are just a handful of small documentaries on the mental illnesses of African dictators and their blood-chilling crimes:














..So what political infrastructure would you construct to prevent dictators from continuing to assume power in our sad, battered and miserable continent?

This is an excellent thread and question. And they are right, it is a mental illness. A good example in our times is Trump. We know Trump was not right in the head. He didn't want to leave the white house. If it was not for the Grace of Allaah swt, the structure of America check system. and the advancement of the American anglo race, we would have gone into third world bs