You aren’t as bad of a person if you impregnate and kill your mother compared to someone who asks the prophet to pray for them

[Haragwafi]

How is this acceptable? I won’t say that it’s shirk bc that’s not my job but the Prophet ﷺ has passed away. Why would you not ask Allah ﷻ directly who is the All Hearing the All Seeing? He is the one who will give permission to the Prophet ﷺ to intercede for others. So only ask Allah ﷻ for the Prophets intercession bc he is the one who responds. He is Al Mujeeb!

I’m surprised people actually do this smh

لْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَ‌ضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا ۚ فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ‌ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ‌ مُتَجَانِفٍ لِّإِثْمٍ ۙ فَإِنَّ اللَّـهَ غَفُورٌ‌ رَّ‌حِيمٌ

This day I have perfected for you your religion, and completed My Blessing upon you, and have approved for you as religion, Submission

 

[Haragwafi]

Imam Al Bayhaqi, Al Shaafici and Ar Razi weren’t against intercession/istighaatha as far as I know. Not sure about the other scholars though. Furthermore there is a huge difference between calling it haram and calling it straight up shirk

Istagatha is a shirk that directly goes against the Quran and Sunnah

You're directly asking for a help from a dead person which goes against what Allah swt said in his book.

إِذْ تَسْتَغِيثُونَ رَبَّكُمْ فَاسْتَجَابَ لَكُمْ

When you appealed to your Lord for help, He answered you.

The prophet ﷺ said:

Al-Nu’man ibn Bashir reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

الدُّعَاءُ هُوَ الْعِبَادَةُ
Supplication is the essence of worship.

And then the prophet ﷺ recited the following verse from the holy book:

وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمْ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ عَنْ عِبَادَتِي سَيَدْخُلُونَ جَهَنَّمَ دَاخِرِينَ

Your Lord says: Call upon Me and I will answer you. Verily, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell in humiliation.

 

[citrus_samurai]

Abu Ya`la, Ibn al-Sunni, and al-Tabarani in al-Mu`jam al-Kabir narrated that the Prophet (saws) said: "If one of you loses something or seeks help or a helper (ghawth), and he is in a land where there is no one to befriend, let him say: "O servants of Allah, help me! (ya `ibad Allah, aghithuni), for verily Allah has servants whom one does not see." Al-Haythami said in Majma` al-Zawa'id (10:132): "The men in its chain of transmission have been declared reliable despite weakness in one of them."


Al-Bayhaqi narrates on the authority of Ibn `Abbas in "Kitab al-Aadaab" (p. 436) and with a second chain mawquf from Ibn `Abbas in "Shu`ab al-Iman" (1:445-446=1:183 #167; 6:128 #7697) and a third from Ibn Mas`ud in "Hayat al-Anbiya' ba`da Wafatihim" p. 44: "Allah has angels on the earth - other than the [two] record-keepers - who keep a record [even] of the leaves that fall on the ground. Therefore, if one of you is crippled in a deserted land where no-one is in sight, let him cry out: a'înû 'ibâd Allâh rahimakum Allâh, 'Help, O servants of Allah, may Allah have mercy on you!' Verily he shall be helped, if God wills." Ibn Hajar said its chain is fair (isnaduhu hasan) in "al-amali".

 

[Dualke]

If the shirk was intentional then it's a worse sin, doesn't really matter what the first scenario was

 

[Hamzza]

Imam Al Bayhaqi, Al Shaafici and Ar Razi weren’t against intercession/istighaatha as far as I know. Not sure about the other scholars though. Furthermore there is a huge difference between calling it haram and calling it straight up shirk

Ar Razi in his tafseer of Surah Yunis Ayah 18

 

[Geedi Ladane]

Scholars hold different opinions on making Tawassul through the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam. Most scholars who have addressed this issue, including Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal believed it to be permissible. However, the Hanafi scholars, Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah and others say it is prohibited.

Advocates for the first opinion refer to evidence from the Quran and Sunnah (Prophetic tradition). Some of them like As-Subki the Shaafi’i scholar even claim that this kind of Tawassul has been declared permissible by all scholars. Their evidence from the Quran includes the verse (which means): {O you who have believed, fear Allaah and seek the means [of nearness] to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed.} [Quran 5: 35

Redirect Notice

This was clearly an acceptable practice by early Islamic scholars. Even Taymiyya who was against it says it is bid'ah and not Shirk. That is why i've changed by stance on the matter. I don't agree with it, but when something was blantantly seen as acceptable by many and those that opposed it say it is bid'ah, who am I to scream that is shirk when I am an unknowledgeable laymen?

I’ll have a read of this and look into this matter when I have some time, thanks.

 

[SanaLaporte]

They're comparing useless scenarios but yes obviously shirk is the worst thing anyone can do, any believing Muslim has to be say yes, anything done to a human won't be worst than commiting shirk to Allah

 

[Hamzza]

Ar Razi in his tafseer of Surah Yunis Ayah 18View attachment 242439
View attachment 242440

@citrus_samurai

. ورابعها : أنهم وضعوا هذه الأصنام والأوثان على صور أنبيائهم وأكابرهم ، وزعموا أنهم متى اشتغلوا بعبادة هذه التماثيل ، فان أولئك الأكابر يكونون عند الله تعالى ، ونظيره في هذا الزمان اشتغال كثير من الخلق بتعظيم قبور الأكابر ، على اعتقاد أنهم إذا عظموا قبورهم فانهم يكونون شفعاء لهم عند الله
​

Fourthly: that they placed these idols and statue's on the images of their prophets and greats, and claimed that when they engaged in worshiping these statues, those great ones will intersect with God Almighty on their behalf, and their counterpart in this time is the preoccupation of many people with the veneration of the graves of the greats, believing that if they venerate their graves, they will be intercessors for them with God.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

The Nabi ﷺ is dead, he can't hear you, so how you going to make dua to Allah through the Nabi ﷺ? If he was alive then definitely you could ask the Nabiﷺ to make dua to Allah to cure your diseases. This is definitely shirk and shirk is the worst crime. Easy peasy to understand

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Is this modern day Salafis in a nutshell

The lecture that video was taken from is based on miaw's treatise " the 4 principles of shirk ". The above statements from that clip is just tip of the iceberg as the lecture is filled with similar statements from start to end.

There's a fundamental problem in their understanding of tawheed & shirk, which leads them to make such statements. As long as modern day salafism continues to propagate the teachings of Miaw such blanket accusations will persist.

There's 2 types of dua, one of asking, calling etc and one of worship, so the important question that needs answering is when is it classified as worship. Take for instance the claim made in the clip that asking the Prophet ﷺ to make dua for you or using him as an intermediary/ intercessor is shirk, this is very problematic as we've evidence from hadith that contradicting the above claim

In the hadith of the blind man and man in need we’ve the sahabi uthman ibn hunayf RA (who witnessed the Prophet ﷺ teaching the blind man to say a dua where he uses the Prophet ﷺ as a wasila ) teaching the same dua to a man during the time when Uthman ibn Affan RA was the Caliph.

In the dua a person is supplicating to Allah SWT while mentioning the Prophet ﷺ and this isn’t restricted to any time or place. The fact that the sahabi taught it to the man years after the Prophet ﷺ passed away proves this. It’s the Prophet ﷺ himself who has taught us that one can fulfil his needs by taking him as a means to Our Rabb

Furthermore asking the Prophet ﷺ to intercede for you is one the things that’s been recommended to do by classical scholars like imam nawawi, ibn qudama etc while visiting His grave.

Had the above been shirk we’ve to ask ourselves why did the classical scholars allow it, teach and recommended people to act upon it ? This fact alone should be an indication that there’s a problem with the understanding of those who view it as major shirk.



Hadith of the blind man

From Uthman bin Hunayf [who narrated] that a blind man came to the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - and said: “Supplicate to Allah to cure me.” [The Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam -] said, “If you wish I will supplicate [for you] and if you wish you may be patient and that will be better for you.” He said, “Supplicate to Him.” [The narrator] said, “So the Prophet instructed him to make ablution (wudhu`), perfect his ablution and then supplicate with this prayer:
‘O Allah, I ask You and approuch You through Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. [O Muhammad,] I approach my Lord through you in this need of mine, that it be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me’”.

Hadith of the man in need

A man was going to `Uthmān ibn `Affān - radhiallahu 'anhu - trying to get something done for himself. However, `Uthmān didn’t pay any attention to him, nor did he look after his need. That man went to `Uthmān ibn Hunayf and complained about that to him. `Uthmān ibn Hunayf said to him, “Go and perform ablution (wudū), then go to the mosque and pray two cycles (rak`atayn) of prayer, then say: ‘O Allāh, I ask You and I approach You through your Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I approach my Lord through you that my need be fulfilled,’ then mention your need. Thereafter come to me that I might go with you.”

Then the man went away and did what he was told. After that he went to the door of `Uthmān ibn `Affān; whereupon the doorkeeper took him by the hand and ushered him into `Uthmān ibn `Affān who sat him down beside him on his mat and said to him, “What can I do for you?” He told him what he needed and `Uthmān had that done for him and then he said to him, “I didn’t remember your problem until now. Whenever you need anything come to me.” Thereupon the man left him and went to `Uthmān ibn Hunayf and said, “May Allāh bless you, `Uthmān wouldn’t look after me, nor even pay attention to me until you spoke to him about me.” `Uthmān ibn Hunayf replied, “I swear by Allāh that I didn’t speak to him.

Actually, I saw a blind man come to the Messenger of Allāh ﷺ and complain to him about losing his sight. The Prophet ﷺ said to him, “Wouldn’t you rather show patience?” He replied, “O Messenger of Allāh, I don’t have a guide and the matter has become an ordeal for me.” The Prophet ﷺ said to him, “Go and make ablution (wudū), then pray two cycles (rak`atayn) of prayer, then make this supplication (du’ā).“ I swear by Allāh, we hadn’t gone away, nor had we remained a long time in talk when the man returned as if he had never suffered any affliction."

Shirk is about beliefs, it doesn’t matter if a person is dead or alive as long as the person has shirki beliefs it’s all the same.

 

[Aniga 22]

He is right though

The nabi asked the sahabas once:

What is more wrong: sacrificing a chicken to the devil or sleeping with your mother.

The sahabas said sleeping with your mother.

The prophet pboh restarted their islamic schooling since they did not understand.


You don't understand walaal, time for re education

If you can believe that nonsense your brain hasn't evolved beyond an amoeba, use your effing caqli instead of taking fairy tales like face value

 

[Qeelbax]

If you can believe that nonsense your hasn't evolved beyond an amoeba, use your effing caqli instead of taking fairy tales like face value

I don’t agree with the person you quoted but your tongue won’t be as slick on judgement day

 

[Aniga 22]

I don’t agree with the person you quoted but your tongue won’t be as slick on judgement day

I'm talking about the false Hadiths that our people believe by just hearing it's a Hadith, if these Hadiths don't comply with the Quran and the caqli saliim , it's just Arab tribal propaganda or worse ,, ilaahey caqliga wuxu no siiyo ina ka shaqey siino, we don't just take information that so and so heard from so and so , especially one beyond embarrassing like the ones these salafi low IQ types use to mentally stunt our people

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

If you can believe that nonsense your brain hasn't evolved beyond an amoeba, use your effing caqli instead of taking fairy tales like face value

Brother or sister, seek the knowledge before making statements like this.

Research your own believes, you will figure out that what you are practising.

At the end of the day, i only care about my family and myself. Your qiyamah is your issue, i wish you good luck.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

I'm talking about the false Hadiths that our people believe by just hearing it's a Hadith, if these Hadiths don't comply with the Quran and the caqli saliim , it's just Arab tribal propaganda or worse ,, ilaahey caqliga wuxu no siiyo ina ka shaqey siino, we don't just take information that so and so heard from so and so , especially one beyond embarrassing like the ones these salafi low IQ types use to mentally stunt our people

Degeso

You are arrogant, ignorant and verg much puffing your ego up.

Stop using your perspective for your own sake, we use Allah's perpective (which we only understand due the little pieces of information given to uss by Allah).

sacrificing a chicken to the devil is a sin even the devil does not commit. ( he tricks humans to do so, this will result in permanent hellfire).

Zina is not punished by permanent hell fire.

Do you understand it a bit better now.
By the way it goes deeper than this.

Use that effing brain of yours, instead of whatever you are saying.

You don't even understand the basics of your religion, for your own sake educate yourself correctly. It is not that hard, if i seem to grasp the basics. You can too, i am not the ulemah version of einstein yah.

 

[Haragwafi]

I'm talking about the false Hadiths that our people believe by just hearing it's a Hadith, if these Hadiths don't comply with the Quran and the caqli saliim , it's just Arab tribal propaganda or worse ,, ilaahey caqliga wuxu no siiyo ina ka shaqey siino, we don't just take information that so and so heard from so and so , especially one beyond embarrassing like the ones these salafi low IQ types use to mentally stunt our people

What false Hadith dp our people believe?? Are you expert in the 'ilm Hadith for you to reject what the prophet said???? We have two Sahihs in the Hadith collected by two of the greatest muhadithen scholar Imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari who compiled the most authentic hadiths of the prophet that had strong Isnad or chains.

Methods of Classification and Annotation:
Imām al-Bukhārī (rahimahullah) imposed conditions which all narrators and testifiers in the hadith chain must have met before a hadith was included in his book:
1. All narrators in the chain must be just (`adl).
2. All narrators in the chain must possess strong memory and all the Muhadditheen who possess great knowledge of ahadith must agree upon the narrators' ability to learn and memorize, along with their reporting techniques.
3. The chain must be complete without any missing narrators.
4. It must be known that consecutive narrators in the chain met each other

Imam Muslim considered only such traditions to be genuine and authentic as had been transmitted to him by an unbroken chain of reliable authorities up to the Prophet (

) and were in perfect harmony with what had been related by other narrators whose trustworthiness was unanimously accepted and who were free from all defects.

 

[Aniga 22]

What false Hadith dp our people believe?? Are you expert in the 'ilm Hadith for you to reject what the prophet said???? We have two Sahihs in the Hadith collected by two of the greatest muhadithen scholar Imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari who compiled the most authentic hadiths of the prophet that had strong Isnad or chains.

The numerous Hadiths reported by people who weren't even Arabic native speakers and those who immediately after our prophet's passing couldn't even agree on who will succeed after him until it lead to the deaths of so many of the sahaba, the Hadiths that will give anyone with a common sense a pause and wonder what's the point of some of their rules when they are not supported by the Quran or look they were made up by some quarreling rulers, none of us have been around when they were compiled and none of us will be asked why we didn't follow what Mr so and so said was from the Rasuulka if it doesn't bode well Caqli Saliim

 

[Haragwafi]

The numerous Hadiths reported by people who weren't even Arabic native speakers and those who immediately after our prophet's passing couldn't even agree on who will succeed after him until it lead to the deaths of so many of the sahaba, the Hadiths that will give anyone with a common sense a pause and wonder what's the point of some of their rules when they are not supported by the Quran or look they were made up by some quarreling rulers, none of us have been around when they were compiled and none of us will be asked why we didn't follow what Mr so and so said was from the Rasuulka if it doesn't bode well Caqli Saliim

You talk about Cali Salim and you're jaahil illiterate person what an irony

The saying of the prophet was transmitted by his companions to their followers or students and those hadiths were taken by the scholars who taught the religion and Hadith is the backbone and a second source of our religion as it's the Sunnah of the prophet

from where we learn how to perform the salat and wudu and other main obligations.

Anyone who rejects the Hadthis and he Sunnah of the prophet

is a disbeliever an apostate according to all of our clerics so brother or sister ids better for you to educate yourself oin the diin and repent to Allah.