Why we need a secular constitution

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Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
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A majority of Somalis hold views that are not much different from this man's. If I was in charge of writing the new constitution, I would not mention religion in there at all. Any declaration of an official state religion will invite more demands from the likes of this man, best to take that clause out of the document altogether.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
Oh piss the f*ck off
What? You want a religion based constitution? Why? You won't have the rights you enjoy today in the west. No habeas corpus. No presumption of innocence in trials. No cross examination of witnesses, so 4 random fuckwits can accuse you of something. A secular constitution that guarantees rights is what is needed.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
Jesus! You know you're in a horrible situation when Sheekh Xassan seriously. Imagine how much better off we would be if this guy was treated as the laughing stock he is. Imagine how much betteroff we'd be if "llaahay ba xaqqa leh" was not a sentence that was taken as a universal truth. What if people just questioned that and were able to disagree and speak their minds. We would be leagues better.
 

RasCanjero-

Self imposed exile
We should allow for states or regions to pick their own Shariah/secularism balance.

Even if we had a nation wide Shariah based Constitution; there would be disagreements on which school or even sect to follow.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
The current constitution declares Somalia to be a Muslim country and prohibits construction of new churches, propagation of religions other than Islam, and the rebuilding of decaying churches, perfectly in line with sharia. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Canada declares itself a Christian state, prohibits building of mosques or the propagation of Islam. Imagine the uproar. Why do you hold yourselves to a lower standard? Why do you "understand" it when Somalia does it but hold Canada to a higher standard? This is so sad.
 

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
Staff Member
What? You want a religion based constitution? Why? You won't have the rights you enjoy today in the west. No habeas corpus. No presumption of innocence in trials. No cross examination of witnesses, so 4 random fuckwits can accuse you of something. A secular constitution that guarantees rights is what is needed.
You cannot have religious law as the basis of a modern state, it will not work. You can have a religious state, but not an open multiparty democracy.

I want people in Somalia to have the same legal rights I have here in America, and that is not possible if we have religious law in place.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
You cannot have religious law as the basis of a modern state, it will not work. You can have a religious state, but not an open multiparty democracy.

I want people in Somalia to have the same legal rights I have here in America, and that is not possible if we have religious law in place.
It all ties into the mass stupidity and short sightedness that got us (and the rest of the Muslim/African world) in the mess we are in today. People can't think two steps ahead and go with what makes them feel good. There's no logical or reasoning involved. They can't see that declaring yourself a Muslim state but demanding the west not "discriminate" don't go together.
 
We should definitely seperate religion from state. Turkey for example has a secular constitution, with no official state religion.
 

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
Staff Member
It all ties into the mass stupidity and short sightedness that got us (and the rest of the Muslim/African world) in the mess we are in today. People can't think two steps ahead and go with what makes them feel good. There's no logical or reasoning involved. They can't see that declaring yourself a Muslim state but demanding the west not "discriminate" don't go together.
I know that declaring the country secular, full stop, is a bit of a reach. But the current situation where we pretend to be applying religious law breeds contempt for our hypocrisy. No Somali region enforces hand chopping or stoning adulterers, yet they all claim to be implementing the sharia. This hypocrisy breeds anger in those who want a theocracy, and leads them to violence. It is much better to rip off the bandaid and declare that this is a secular state, and that religion will have no role to play in the crafting of law.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

Intellectual saqajaan
I know that declaring the country secular, full stop, is a bit of a reach. But the current situation where we pretend to be applying religious law breeds contempt for our hypocrisy. No Somali region enforces hand chopping or stoning adulterers, yet they all claim to be implementing the sharia. This hypocrisy breeds anger in those who want a theocracy, and leads them to violence. It is much better to rip off the bandaid and declare that this is a secular state, and that religion will have no role to play in the crafting of law.
In Somali circles, any mention of sharia or sharia law can only be a good thing. It's difficult to make the case to separate religion and state. It's seen as an attack on their faith. After all why would you want to take Islam out of the picture? Right? It's a nation of 10 million autistic 8 year old schizophrenics who've been taught one thing and can't process anything else. Secularism is on the rise and there comes a point where enough young people had enough and violently impose secularism. I can't wait for that.
 
I'd look at Syria as an example. Most citizens there do not want Sharia law but they also don't want a dictator that gasses them, democracy basically. Somalis could learn from Turkey who are 99% Muslim yet seperated religion and state.
 

Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
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A majority of Somalis hold views that are not much different from this man's. If I was in charge of writing the new constitution, I would not mention religion in there at all. Any declaration of an official state religion will invite more demands from the likes of this man, best to take that clause out of the document altogether.
You're clearly a gaal nacaala iyo waxa tahay ba waas:pacspit:
 

Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
Stay WOKE
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Shariah is the only way forward for Somalia shariah is the remedy for all our ills shariah is integral Islam is somalinimo without Islam there's no somalinimo islamnimo is somalinimo that's why we don't call Somali apostates Somali we refer to them as gaalo.
 

Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
Stay WOKE
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We should definitely seperate religion from state. Turkey for example has a secular constitution, with no official state religion.
Turkey is a gaal state they are competing with the gaalo trying to out do them in gaalinimo by banning hijabs from universities.
 
The distinction between secularism and Islam is a false one. The Ottoman khilafa decriminalized homosexuality in 1858. It gave apostates the freedom to leave Islam. It allowed equal rights to non-Muslims. And it abolished slavery. Long before many Western nations did. Scholars said that Allah's shariah is secularism. Wahabbis have done a good job of rewriting history to make it appear as though these are Western concepts, but what do you expect from those cockroaches.

There's a place in Islam for ijtihad, and the Tanzimat reforms were a part of this process. From Wikipedia:

The reforms sought to emancipate the empire's non-Muslim subjects and more thoroughly integrate non-Turks into Ottoman society by enhancing their civil liberties and granting them equality throughout the empire.

Many changes were made to improve civil liberties, but many Muslims saw them as foreign influence on the world of Islam. That perception complicated reformist efforts made by the state.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat

It's a mistake to let Saudi vermin have a monopoly on sacred terms like Shariah. The Ottomans killed Wahabbi heretics with abandon. Numerous wars were fought to exterminate them. Islamic leaders considered them satanic evildoers. Their leader Ibn Taymiyyah spent most of his life in jail. He was not under any illusion what scholars thought of his kafir ideology. It was not until Lawrence of Arabia instigated the Arabs against the Ottoman caliphate and supplied them with arms that these people got the secular boot off their neck. It's time to return that boot where it belongs.

Allah supports freedom. If he didn't, the Shaytan would not he allowed to mislead people for thousands of years.
Allah gave him freedom of speech and freedom of action before the First Amendment was ever conceived. If Allah permits someone whose stated ambition is to lie and to deceive, then how much more tolerant would he be of someone who sincerely and genuinely believes that his non-Islamic beliefs are true? The Quran is clear on this point: there is no compulsion in religion. Libertarianism is compatible with the Quran and Sunnah.

The work of sheikh Khalid Abu Fadl is a good resource for those who want to dig deeper.
 
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