Why we need a new clan census

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

How's clan census beneficial to Somalis but for bragging about that "my clan is the biggest"?

I was not advocating for it, and if you were to read my initial post, you would have been much the wiser.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

All of the western, Japan, Korea all use all you own is your private adress your living in. Everything else is state and national cooperation owned. If you want to invest you have to go through the state with your national insurance number. No tribe should be allowed to earn an inch of land.

Not quite comparable, are they? Asian cultures are pacifist in nature whereas nomadic Somalis in hostile environments are wired differently, and would rather die than live in submission.

 

[Abaq]

Don't quote the words of Allah for your silly views. What you advocate for is basically against islamic principles and words of the prophet ﷺ regarding tribalism or clannism which was the act of jaahilya that's why our neighboring Arab tribal countries don't stoop that low like we have bragging about our clans and bringing it into politics.

You clearly have comprehension issues. Re-read my original post and subsequent reply to that individual

 

[Abaq]

Socialism is not necesarrky a bad thing for some cultures. Like a said if Somali's implemented socialism, as long as it doesn't go against Islam that would be my best choice of governence.

Another example of why Somalis struggle with state building. Rather than strengthen and build upon traditional structures and systems, they want to import foreign systems wholesale

 

[Abaq]

Somalis are a tribal clan based society. Accepting that fact and working with it will lead to tangible results. Ignoring it and trying to adopt strategies that don't account for it will end in disaster.

An example from Islamic history of using the clan based structures to beneficial ends is the Prophet PBUH. The Islamic army under the Prophet SAW was structured along tribal lines, with each "battalion" composed of a single tribe. The Prophet SAW knew the tribal nature of the Arabs so he used this to further the Islamic agenda, rather than trying to ignore it.

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Tribalism is like onion, before you know it you will have Makaahiil self determination party in lower Juba claiming Badhaade . Marehan claiming Kismaayo, Saakow and parts of Afmadow.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

One of the reasons Somalia has remained in a mess for so long is many of us bury our heads in the sand and refuse to accept reality. Somalis are a clan based society where clan identity rules supreme no matter what the communist leftists would have us imagine. That isn't necessarily a problem, Allah has created our society like that and it is just one of the ways societies are shaped across the world. The problem occurs when people either misuse this (qabyaalad) or try to deny its existence (fake Somalinimo).

Since idependence, we've been trying to deny this reality. We tried to ban it, we tried to hide it, we tried to force other ideologies, yet it still wouldn't go away. In the end, it blew up in all our faces in 1991. At that point, rather than accept reality, we chose to keep ignoring it at large except for some minor adjustments (4.5). Ilaa ay Soomaalidu run isu sheegto, heshiini mayno. We need to tell each other the truth if we want to true peace and to move on.

To do that, we firstly need a new clan census. The last such one was under colonial rule and there's a reason why the colonialists did it: they new our reality and due to their degree of separation they had no issue accepting it. Before we sit down and decide how we will live together as a state and share resources, we firstly need to know sida loo kala badan yahay iyo sida loo kala deggen yahay. We need a new clan census.

India, another tribal based society along caste lines, recently just published it's first caste census since indepenedence (the last one under the British was in 1931). Ironically, the so-called upper caste laandheeres only formed 15% of the population and the looma-ooyaan lower castes formed 85% https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...census-in-india-threatens-modis-grip-on-power

It’d be hilarious to see all the clans hyping up their population only to see they barely reach a mil.

 

[Abaq]

It’d be hilarious to see all the clans hyping up their population only to see they barely reach a mil.

The last true impartial census showed us that Majeerteen, Abgaal, Ogaden, and Gaaljecel were the most numerous in Somalia proper. Would be interesting to see what the numbers are today

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

The last true impartial census showed us that Majeerteen, Abgaal, Ogaden, and Gaaljecel were the most numerous in Somalia proper. Would be interesting to see what the numbers are today

There is no way we will except a census, while Madoobe is a care taker govorner. If he takes a census, we will take our own census when barre Hiraale is sworn in as president.

 

[Gacmeey]

How do you differentiate between Somalis in Somalia and Somalis in Ethiopia who cross the border?

You don’t. Somalis living in nfd and galbeed are the same Somalis as the ones living in the 7. Anyone who says otherwise is a threat to Somali society and somaliweyn and is khaainul wadan and deserves to be brought in front of a court

 

[Step a side]

The last true impartial census showed us that Majeerteen, Abgaal, Ogaden, and Gaaljecel were the most numerous in Somalia proper. Would be interesting to see what the numbers are today

The Italians made it clear that the census were not accurate but a rough estimate.

 

[MBADD]

You don’t. Somalis living in nfd and galbeed are the same Somalis as the ones living in the 7. Anyone who says otherwise is a threat to Somali society and somaliweyn and is khaainul wadan and deserves to be brought in front of a court

They are not the same. The Somalis in the 7 should stay exclusively for the Somalis in the 7.

 

[MBADD]

Somalis are a tribal clan based society. Accepting that fact and working with it will lead to tangible results. Ignoring it and trying to adopt strategies that don't account for it will end in disaster.

An example from Islamic history of using the clan based structures to beneficial ends is the Prophet PBUH. The Islamic army under the Prophet SAW was structured along tribal lines, with each "battalion" composed of a single tribe. The Prophet SAW knew the tribal nature of the Arabs so he used this to further the Islamic agenda, rather than trying to ignore it.

What's your take on who should take the clan census? Can it be any Somali or just the ones in Somalia?

 

[Gacmeey]

They are not the same. The Somalis in the 7 should stay exclusively for the Somalis in the 7.

Then why have the 5 stars on the Somali flag? Rub out 3 and just have a 2-edged star.

There really are only two types of people who have this type of ugly way of thinking. Those with a colonial mindset or those that have a tribalistic mindset.

Those with the colonist mindset believe that the missing lands are not part of Somalia and that it is either Djibouti, Kenya or Ethiopia and Somalia is only the 7. These ones are the weakest Somalis mentally.

Imagine if you and your kids and your brothers were living in a house with 5 rooms. One day someone stronger than you come along looking to take over your house and you and brothers fight but, in the end, he overpowers your family. He then only allows you and your kids to only live in two rooms and gives the three other rooms to your Neighbours. To make you accept this new reality, the aggressor tells you that the world is governed by governments, and you can only be a government with two rooms. Now if you and your brothers come to an agreement that you will you get the three other rooms at a later date, your brothers will be entitled to ownership of the other two rooms without any conditions as it was written in the 60's constitution.

People with this mindset are the biggest betrayal of the Somali nation. The are betraying groups like SYL which was founded in Jigjiga and of which most its members and funding came from Somali Galbeed. If only the 7 is Somalia and only those born in it are Somali, what about the Sayid, ONLF, WSLF, Nasrullah, OCTI, Ahmed Gurey, Xawo Taako, Wiil waal, Qamaan Bulxan, Halacdheere, Abdallah Nuuraadin, Raage Ugaas, Farax Caytame, Cilmi Raage, Qoorleex, Weerar Bulxan, Mataan Caydiid, Sheikh Ali sufi, Sheikh Cumar Farooq, Sheikh Umal, Asli Xasan and countless others? Where did they come from? Are they Ethiopians and kenyans? Who are you to say they aren't Somali? If you say they aren't part of the jamhuuriyadda, have you spent more fighting for Somalia than they have?

Where do take three presidents that were born outside xudud beenaadka? Are you going to say Siad Bare wasn't a citizen? Are you going to say Abdullahi Yusuf wasn't a citizen? Are you going to say Aden cadde wasn't a citizen? Will you today revoke their citizenships?

Then you go the ones comparing qurbo joog somalis to those in Nfd, Somali galbeed and djibouti. The absolute stupidity of comparing lands we went to and aren't native to and lands that we have always lived in and are being colonized.

On the other hand, the tribalistic mindset can be categorized into 2.

• The insecure ones​
• The ones that don't care​

The insecure ones believe that if all Somalis are considered Somali citizens, their place on the scale of laandheerinmo/laangabnimo since the rival clans will have a boost in their numbers and resources. These are A grade cowards and I have no respect for them. There are many reasons why Somalis are the only tribe to have a nation of its own in Africa and these laangaabs in laandheer's clothing are not one of them.

The ones that don't care don't have their tribes living in the three missing lands. It is none of their business if those in nfd and thiose in somali galbeed are being colonized or if they are free or if they go to mars. This one who applies to people like HSM and jawaari who are Abgaal and Eelaay respectively. Neither of their clans live outside in the xudud beenaad so they beat the drums of Somali Ethiopian and Somali Kenyan.

Either way, both are traitors and are working in destroying the constitution and somaliweyn. Whilst we cannot get these lands back today but to have something taken by force and to surrender are two different things. Just like son who couldn't avenge his father we must say 'gobanimo indho adeeg baa iga haray' and say no to colonial borders even if that is the least we can do.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Qabil is primitive. We need to put all these old farts and creatures who encourage the youth to be primitive tribalists in jail or death. These 70 year old illiterate farts have destroyed our country, Made it a shit hole and continue to plague it. It vexes me how far we fell. Why are we still supporting these primitive shaytans.

Honestly they all need to get the capital punishment if somalia has any chance of greatness.

 

[GaradShabeel]

How do you differentiate between Somalis in Somalia and Somalis in Ethiopia who cross the border?

Kulaha Somalis who cross the border. The fake and non-existent borders?

Any Somali is free to cross the border to each side at will. No one can stop this God-given right. Not even politicians can put an end to this. Most border clans won’t accept it either.

 

[MBADD]

Then why have the 5 stars on the Somali flag? Rub out 3 and just have a 2-edged star.

There really are only two types of people who have this type of ugly way of thinking. Those with a colonial mindset or those that have a tribalistic mindset.

Those with the colonist mindset believe that the missing lands are not part of Somalia and that it is either Djibouti, Kenya or Ethiopia and Somalia is only the 7. These ones are the weakest Somalis mentally.

Imagine if you and your kids and your brothers were living in a house with 5 rooms. One day someone stronger than you come along looking to take over your house and you and brothers fight but, in the end, he overpowers your family. He then only allows you and your kids to only live in two rooms and gives the three other rooms to your Neighbours. To make you accept this new reality, the aggressor tells you that the world is governed by governments, and you can only be a government with two rooms. Now if you and your brothers come to an agreement that you will you get the three other rooms at a later date, your brothers will be entitled to ownership of the other two rooms without any conditions as it was written in the 60's constitution.

People with this mindset are the biggest betrayal of the Somali nation. The are betraying groups like SYL which was founded in Jigjiga and of which most its members and funding came from Somali Galbeed. If only the 7 is Somalia and only those born in it are Somali, what about the Sayid, ONLF, WSLF, Nasrullah, OCTI, Ahmed Gurey, Xawo Taako, Wiil waal, Qamaan Bulxan, Halacdheere, Abdallah Nuuraadin, Raage Ugaas, Farax Caytame, Cilmi Raage, Qoorleex, Weerar Bulxan, Mataan Caydiid, Sheikh Ali sufi, Sheikh Cumar Farooq, Sheikh Umal, Asli Xasan and countless others? Where did they come from? Are they Ethiopians and kenyans? Who are you to say they aren't Somali? If you say they aren't part of the jamhuuriyadda, have you spent more fighting for Somalia than they have?

Where do take three presidents that were born outside xudud beenaadka? Are you going to say Siad Bare wasn't a citizen? Are you going to say Abdullahi Yusuf wasn't a citizen? Are you going to say Aden cadde wasn't a citizen? Will you today revoke their citizenships?

Then you go the ones comparing qurbo joog somalis to those in Nfd, Somali galbeed and djibouti. The absolute stupidity of comparing lands we went to and aren't native to and lands that we have always lived in and are being colonized.

On the other hand, the tribalistic mindset can be categorized into 2.

• The insecure ones​
• The ones that don't care​

The insecure ones believe that if all Somalis are considered Somali citizens, their place on the scale of laandheerinmo/laangabnimo since the rival clans will have a boost in their numbers and resources. These are A grade cowards and I have no respect for them. There are many reasons why Somalis are the only tribe to have a nation of its own in Africa and these laangaabs in laandheer's clothing are not one of them.

The ones that don't care don't have their tribes living in the three missing lands. It is none of their business if those in nfd and thiose in somali galbeed are being colonized or if they are free or if they go to mars. This one who applies to people like HSM and jawaari who are Abgaal and Eelaay respectively. Neither of their clans live outside in the xudud beenaad so they beat the drums of Somali Ethiopian and Somali Kenyan.

Either way, both are traitors and are working in destroying the constitution and somaliweyn. Whilst we cannot get these lands back today but to have something taken by force and to surrender are two different things. Just like son who couldn't avenge his father we must say 'gobanimo indho adeeg baa iga haray' and say no to colonial borders even if that is the least we can do.

No such thing as Somaliweyn. It has never existed.

Every Laandheeres ran their own affairs, and the Laangaabs living amongst them had to comply.

Its the nature of life. Nothing wrong with it. Majority rules.

Colonial mindset is what makes this world go round. We have never left it. When these Western powers collapse due to civil strife and Russia-China take over as the hegemonic power of the world is when we can talk about erasing the borders. Until then the Cadaan laandheere along with their AU puppets/Ethiopia/Kenya says NFD and Galbeed shall exist and there is nothing your laangaab behind, respectfully, can do about it.

My guess is your from those territories. Your Somalinimo can never be in question nor can those historical figures, but the Huduud of the Republic of Somalia is clear. 17 million and change. We have people trying to leave the 7 and that will not happen either unless the Laandheeres of the global elite say so.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Those are ethnicities with their own traditions and languages

Here are all the ethnicities in Somalia with their own languages:

• Maay Tiri speakers (Rahanweyn)
• Dabarre
• Tunni
• Jiddu
• Garre
• Maxaa Tiri speakers (Dir, Darod, Hawiye and small standalone clans)
• Boni
• Bajuni
• Chimwiini (Barawaani)
• Mushunguli/Zigua

Somalia from Awdal to a line running from Feerfeer to Cadale is basically as homogenous as Korea. South of that line, it is a typically diverse African country with 10 ethnic groups.

 

[Kizaru]

Its sad to see somalis will never defend somalia when its foreigners who say vile stuff about our country (apart from when its africans) but the minute a somali person from a different clan says something, somalis will say the most disgusting and vile things about other somalis because he/she are from a different clan. The older generation who promote such primitive nature should either be exiled or sent back to school. Even when our country is such a under-developed place, we will still, for some low iq reason, dig a even deeper grave then the 12 foot deep one we are already in.

 

[Abaq]

Its sad to see somalis will never defend somalia when its foreigners who say vile stuff about our country (apart from when its africans) but the minute a somali person from a different clan says something, somalis will say the most disgusting and vile things about other somalis because he/she are from a different clan. The older generation who promote such primitive nature should either be exiled or sent back to school. Even when our country is such a under-developed place, we will still, for some low iq reason, dig a even deeper grave then the 12 foot deep one we are already in.

We all went through this self-pity sxb. Soon you will get over it and learn to live and work with reality. Until then, you have my thoughts and prayers