WHY THE USA SHOULD NOT RECOGNIZE SOMALILAND

[IPushFatKids]

Most of what he said can be easily debunked what kind of factual evidence did he present?

I am very curious about this statement.
You mind listing the the things that he said that were false and can easily be debunked? It’s a pretty long article and since “most” of what he said could easily be debunked I’m sure you could shoot off at least 5 things.

 

[IPushFatKids]

What's so strange about that , it's pure my enemy's enemy is friend game. Somalia claims the entire territory of Somaliland,. Half of Kenya half of Ethiopia and even Djibouti. It's a cancer to the stability of the horn . We propose Kenya should annex the entire Bantu inhabited jubaland. Forget about the maritime that's just an appetizer.

When has FGS made a claim on any of these territories? Why are you lying about something that’s patently false and easily disproven?

Popular citizen opinion does not equate to official government policy.

Further, the Tripartite agreement signed by Faarmajo in 2018 which calls for respect for each other’s countries territorial integrity explicitly dispels your lie (and puts the nail in the coffin of Ethiopia ever recognising Somaliland).

I know a key talking point by the Somaliland propaganda machine is to attempt to label the FGS an “expansionist government” which is just laughable. Please don’t try to lump your clan enclave with these other sovereign nations, FGS has never made a claim on those territories.

 

[Kanan]

I am very curious about this statement.
You mind listing the the things that he said that were false and can easily be debunked? It’s a pretty long article and since “most” of what he said could easily be debunked I’m sure you could shoot off at least 5 things.

So you quoted me without even reading his article? Sure here are few.



1- That there are five clans in the former British territory and only one of them, and not all of its members at that, are supportive of the secession from Somalia. It occupies less than 20 percent of the territory.


2- That the other four clans, occupying more than 80 percent of the territory, and who do not call themselves “Somalilanders” but citizens of Somalia, are unionists and oppose the secession.


3- That any claim as to who is the majority and who is the minority in the area, as Meservey has indulged in, is presumptuous since no official census of the clans have ever been made,
That the five clans that fell under British conquest are not exclusive to that area but are part of their fellow clans in southern Somalia (former Italian Somaliland), Ogaden region and Djibouti.
That each of the five clans, exercising its inalienable right, freely chose to join the union with Italian Somaliland.


4- As such, no clan was forced to be part of the union just as none can be forced to be part of the secession as the one clan enclave calling itself Somalilanders is, forcing the secession on the other four unionist clans.



5- Even the ruling clan is not monolithic about the secession. An inter-clan civil war erupted in the heart of the enclave in 1993/94 when one of the clans supported the former Somaliland president Abdirahman Ahmed Ali who was an avowed unionist.ike a lot of façades put-up in the enclave, elections are not held as a prerequisite of democracy but as a show to win favourable international impression to win recognition. And on the whole they have been successful. A good convert is Mr. Meservey.


6- Once the facades are out of the way, the reality is something completely different. A more fitting analogy to the enclave would be the white minority-ruled former Rhodesia. Just as all power was monopolized by the whites, so allp0wer is exclusive to the clan. The three political parties permitted in Somaliland are in the hands of the ruling clan. No other party is allowed to compete with them which closes the doors on other clans and regions. The clan’s control permeates also both houses of Parliament, the civil service, the police and the armed forces.



7- Access to justice and non-discriminatory application of the law underpin the rule of law. Yet those who do not have the means to defend themselves, or not connected to those who wield power, or belong to minority clans, are likely to be the victims of the abuse of power.. Extra-judicial killings, common in occupied Lascanod, the capital of Sool region, are used as a tool to suppress the rising opposition to the occupation and secession.

Th United Nations Independent Expert on the human rights situation in Somalia has been following some of these cases which speaks for itself.



8- And within northern Somalia (Somaliland), the government has been until now restrained and relying on peaceful means to deal with the secession. It would now be justified to act more robustly and, as a minimum, support the unionist regions to free themselves from the secessionist occupation. A one-clan enclave without the rest of the northern unionist regions would be unsustainable.

Many within the enclave are already deserting the secession and coming back to the fold, feeling they are better off being part of the Somali nation than belonging to a renegade clan enclave. Many more are likely to follow them when they see the unionist regions free and part of Somalia. Contrary to what Mr. Meservey said about the recognition of Somaliland sounding the death knell to Somali irredentism, the USA action could inadvertently bring about Greater Somalia by destabilizing its own allies holding on to Somali territories.



This is 8 points full of distorted facts, lies and half truths. In the case of 7 & 8 he actually contradicts what he said earlier about human rights and then goes on a ramble on greater Somalia. Do you see how delusional he is threatening America with greater Somalia if they recognize Somaliland?


He's not alright in the head.



Anyway be my guest and choose any of the 8 points above you want me to debunk. The facts are rather clear both in past & present.

 

[Kanan]

When has FGS made a claim on any of these territories? Why are you lying about something that’s patently false and easily disproven?

Popular citizen opinion does not equate to official government policy.

Further, the Tripartite agreement signed by Faarmajo in 2018 which calls for respect for each other’s countries territorial integrity explicitly dispels your lie (and puts the nail in the coffin of Ethiopia ever recognising Somaliland).

I know a key talking point by the Somaliland propaganda machine is to attempt to label the FGS an “expansionist government” which is just laughable. Please don’t try to lump your clan enclave with these other sovereign nations, FGS has never made a claim on those territories.

Your beloved author threatened a global super power with Greater Somalia if they recognize Somaliland yet you didn't even miss a heart beat and pledged your support for his ill intentioned article.

 

[Yuusuf the great]

When has FGS made a claim on any of these territories? Why are you lying about something that’s patently false and easily disproven?

Popular citizen opinion does not equate to official government policy.

Further, the Tripartite agreement signed by Faarmajo in 2018 which calls for respect for each other’s countries territorial integrity explicitly dispels your lie (and puts the nail in the coffin of Ethiopia ever recognising Somaliland).

I know a key talking point by the Somaliland propaganda machine is to attempt to label the FGS an “expansionist government” which is just laughable. Please don’t try to lump your clan enclave with these other sovereign nations, FGS has never made a claim on those territories.

Somalia and it's former master Italy never signed any treaty with Ethiopia to demarcate the border between Somalia and Ethiopia the border is still not official but adminstrative line. Both fascist juntas never wanted peaceful coexistence with Ethiopia. And they attacked Ethiopia at least 3 times. And defeated all three times. Same goes to Kenya , Somalia don't recognize northern eastern Kenya as part of Kenya. In fact Somalia deliberately include Kenyan and Ethiopian Somalis into it's parliament. Somalia doesn't even call itself as Somalia. It claims the Somali government. Which means the government of all Somalis.


You must be stupid if you think Kenya and Ethiopia are not well aware of the evil intentions of Somalia. Just because you are weak doesn't not mean you not capable to stir fitna in horn of Africa.

 

[IPushFatKids]

Somalia and it's former master Italy never signed any treaty with Ethiopia to demarcate the border between Somalia and Ethiopia the border is still not official but adminstrative line. Both fascist juntas never wanted peaceful coexistence with Ethiopia. And they attacked Ethiopia at least 3 times. And defeated all three times. Same goes to Kenya , Somalia don't recognize northern eastern Kenya as part of Kenya. In fact Somalia deliberately include Kenyan and Ethiopian Somalis into it's parliament. Somalia doesn't even call itself as Somalia. It claims the Somali government. Which means the government of all Somalis.


You must be stupid if you think Kenya and Ethiopia are not well aware of the evil intentions of Somalia. Just because you are weak doesn't not mean you not capable to stir fitna in horn of Africa.

The official maps used and released by the FGS do not include any territory from Ethiopia or NFD. Borders not being fully demarcated has no relevance as most African countries have borders that are poorly demarcated

Just because somalia includes Kenyan Somali’s and Ethiopian Somalia in parliament doesn’t mean they claim those territories

NFD and Somali region do not have dedicated seats in parliament like SL.

And you damn right the government of Somalia is the government for all Somali’s. And that still doesn’t mean it requires claiming NFD and somali region.

 

[Yuusuf the great]

@IPushFatKids the fact that Somalia allows all Somalis to be included into it's parliament and the fact that it provides citizenship to all kinds of somalis shows that Somalia do not respect the territorial integrity of all it's neighbors. You can sugar coat as much as you want but that's the reality. No any other country have such kind of policy not even isreal.

 

[Periplus]

@IPushFatKids the fact that Somalia allows all Somalis to be included into it's parliament and the fact that it provides citizenship to all kinds of somalis shows that Somalia do not respect the territorial integrity of all it's neighbors. You can sugar coat as much as you want but that's the reality. No any other country have such kind of policy not even isreal.

Israel gives citizenship to any person of Jewish descent.

Please shut up, you’re embarrassing yourself.

 

[reer]

Israel gives citizenship to any person of Jewish descent.

Please shut up, you’re embarrassing yourself.

add kazakhstan.

From now on, ethnic Kazakhs who are not Kazakh citizens may take advantage of simpler criteria for receiving permanent residency in Kazakhstan and gaining Kazakh citizenship.
https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2020/05/22/feature-01

 

[Yuusuf the great]

Israel gives citizenship to any person of Jewish descent.

Please shut up, you’re embarrassing yourself.

Only after they move to isreal. But any Somali have access to the SomaliAN citizenship without any restrictions why ?

 

[IPushFatKids]

@Kanan I will get to doing that.

add kazakhstan.

From now on, ethnic Kazakhs who are not Kazakh citizens may take advantage of simpler criteria for receiving permanent residency in Kazakhstan and gaining Kazakh citizenship.
https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2020/05/22/feature-01

Add russia too. They give ethnic Russians in any of the former Soviet states like Ukraine, Belarus automatic citizenship as well.

@Yuusuf the great You are very loud and brash for someone who is totally clueless.

Only after they move to isreal. But any Somali have access to the SomaliAN citizenship without any restrictions why ?

To get Somali citizenship ship you would need to move to Somalia, how else would they verify who you are? I’m not aware of a mail in citizenship service the government runs. If you go to Somalia and you are Somali you can get a passport, not sure what’s so hard to understand here

 

[NordicSomali]

I think it's ultimately about recognizing which terroritory.

 

[Yuusuf the great]

@Kanan I will get to doing that.


Add russia too. They give ethnic Russians in any of the former Soviet states like Ukraine, Belarus automatic citizenship as well.

@Yuusuf the great You are very loud and brash for someone who is totally clueless.


To get Somali citizenship ship you would need to move to Somalia, how else would they verify who you are? I’m not aware of a mail in citizenship service the government runs. If you go to Somalia and you are Somali you can get a passport, not sure what’s so hard to understand here

Verification is not required at all , this racist system determines your citizenship based on your looks and language. I have seen dosens of real Somalian Bantus who were refused to get their Somalian passport just because they looked different . If you are Madowwayne and you forget the Somali language or grew up in a different world , the racist Somali embassy Will never verify your citizenship. But if you are Somali from Nairobi or diredawa you can get it as long as you can say waryaahe. I have never seen such king of racism based citizenship. Somalia existence is not danger to the horn but the entire Africa. In fact Somalia citizens don't consider themselves as Africans . I wonder why they are still part of the African Union.