Why Somaliland region will lose even if a referendum was ever granted

[DR OSMAN]

Yo @PhySom This is nation states. Defined by parameters like air, sea, land, people. It's actually 'carved' following 'numbers' and 'coordinates' to 'create' the shape. That's why nations look like 'shapes' on the world map.

Every nation has his own 'space' in the world to interact with other 'spaces' which are other nations. Isaaq is literally trying take Somalia 'space' but to where since he can't join the 'world space'. He goes to a space of nothingness or as I call it 'unstructured' world where all sorts of 'actors' exist like rebels, terrorists, and even administrations. But their not apart of the 'world community' ordered space. The reason is they break the LAW so they became 'criminals'. PL should never of allowed Somaliland into the constitution and keep them in the unstructured 'space'.

Only states who have followed the legal processes should be allowed to 'exist' and the ones who didn't let them suffer the results of working outside of the 'structure' like rebel groups do, terrorists, etc. They cant trade, import, export, their ppl canno move freely within the world since their not apart of the world lol. Their govt is isolated from even NGO cause they don't go terrorists or rebel group territories. PL needs to learn itself to follow the law, SL should be isolated untill such time they follow nidaamka, noone is asking they forget secession or their aspiration but u need to follow the laws every people in the world are under or fuckin die c*nt

 

[Younes Osman]

@Younes Osman so technicallly speaking Somalia should 'ignore' you not 'entertain' you since your in a space where non state actors are in since your borders are not defined parameters and shapes of the world. You should be in something like an unstructured 'world', you broke the law bro, you shouldn't been rewarded. I really am angry with Somalia for entertaining u, it means u don't learn nidaam and hurt isaaq more in the world as you think this is normal where-ever u go untill u find out your classed non state actor rebel, terrorist, and all those name, they never give them real state names since you didn't go thru the process and procedures locally and then geopolitically. Your trying to fuckin do what u want like ghetto n2gga

There has been 2 referendums conducted in addition my grandparents and great parents and many others volunteered to join konfurta to form Republic of Somalia. Futhermore, if Xasan Sheikh and other Konfurta Federal Government officials believe that SL or "walalo waqooi" should be an independent country then it should be. I do wish goodluck to the konfurta. But, walalhy I never saw konfurta or whats left of Somalia as my country of origin along with the majority of Somalilanders inaan runta kuu sheego waa fiican yahay.

 

[Invader]

@Younes Osman what are you blabbing about? HY & HJ will not vote the same way. Sanaag is HY & Warsangeli majority, Sool Dhulbahante & SY majority. Togdheer is HY & Dhulbahante majority. Buhoodle district is densely populated, its population is not anywhere near "small".

Bruv HY voting no is a minority just like Caare’s Militia

 

[Invader]

The Gadabuursi and Dhulos will only say No if independence never happens. They’re totally on board they just feel like that Somaliland will never be a country.

 

[Soomaaliweyn]

4 out of 5 regions would return no, with Waqooyi Galbeed the last remaining region itself heavily contested.

War there's more doolos in Sanaag than HY

 

[Som]

If a single referendum was held in somaliland the independence would definitely win.
That's why we need to have a referendum in each region to figure out who wants to stay with Somalia and who wants to join S/land.
A referendum in each region is also good for the somaliland cause , if somaliland separates you guys will still have problems with darood unionist for the next decades. Those who want to leave the union with Somalia should be allowed to leave and those who want to stay shouldn't be forced to join S/land

Sool is the only region that will have a clear pro Somalia majority and maybe Sanaag.
Toogdheer W/Galbeed will vote for secession while Awdal is uncertain.
If awdal stays with Somalia it would be a problem because we won't have territorial continuity with them

 

[Invader]

If a single referendum was held in somaliland the independence would definitely win.
That's why we need to have a referendum in each region to figure out who wants to stay with Somalia and who wants to join S/land.
A referendum in each region is also good for the somaliland cause , if somaliland separates you guys will still have problems with darood unionist for the next decades. Those who want to leave the union with Somalia should be allowed to leave and those who want to stay shouldn't be forced to join S/land

Sool is the only region that will have a clear pro Somalia majority and maybe Sanaag.
Toogdheer W/Galbeed will vote for secession while Awdal is uncertain.
If awdal stays with Somalia it would be a problem because we won't have territorial continuity with them

Awdal as I’ve seen is Pro SL if they ever secede but their elders are Pro-Somalia and if Somaliland doesn’t secede soon Awdal will be uncertain.

 

[Som]

There has been 2 referendums conducted in addition my grandparents and great parents and many others volunteered to join konfurta to form Republic of Somalia. Futhermore, if Xasan Sheikh and other Konfurta Federal Government officials believe that SL or "walalo waqooi" should be an independent country then it should be. I do wish goodluck to the konfurta. But, walalhy I never saw konfurta or whats left of Somalia as my country of origin along with the majority of Somalilanders inaan runta kuu sheego waa fiican yahay.

In the 2001 referendum many dhulnahante weren't allowed to vote, international observers weren't allowed to visit Sool. The result was 97% in favour of secession which is clearly an outcome that represents only isaaqs
Realistically in a single fair independence referendum indipendence would still win but a much smaller majority like 60-70% max

 

[Som]

Awdal as I’ve seen is Pro SL if they ever secede but their elders are Pro-Somalia and if Somaliland doesn’t secede soon Awdal will be uncertain.

Most non isaaq elders are ideologically pro Somalia but they really want to see if independence is the best for their people.
Somalia has to convince them that United Somalia is the best thing for them.
If only waqooyi galbeed and toogdheer separate somaliland will be a very small country.
As a somaliweyn supporter I think we need to focus on convincing non-isaaq somalilanders if we want to keep as much territory in the north as we can , isaaqs are already to much pro independence to be convinced otherwise

 

[Invader]

Most non isaaq elders are ideologically pro Somalia but they really want to see if independence is the best for their people.
Somalia has to convince them that United Somalia is the best thing for them.
If only waqooyi galbeed and toogdheer separate somaliland will be a very small country.
As a somaliweyn supporter I think we need to focus on convincing non-isaaq somalilanders if we want to keep as much territory in the north as we can , isaaqs are already to much pro independence to be convinced otherwise

If you want to convince the Isaaq. They may ask for the rights to be a constituent country and acknowledge the genocide and bring the perpetrators to the ICJ but that’ll never happen in a million years.

 

[Som]

If you want to convince the Isaaq. They may ask for the rights to be a constituent country and acknowledge the genocide and bring the perpetrators to the ICJ but that’ll never happen in a million years.

Most of the ones who were truly responsible for the isaaq massacre are dead. Siyaad and many of the Golaha sare kacaanka are dead.
Anyway for the sake of unity I'm ok with Somalia apologising officially to isaaq for what happened. In my opinion it wasn't a genocide but still horrible.
The problem is that isaaq don't really care that much,they will still want to separate even if Somalia becomes peaceful , recognizes the isaaq genocide and brings the perpetrators to the ICJ.
Let's keep in mind that the seed of isaaq separatism was already there in the 1960s.
Isaaq shouldn't get any special treatment, we shouldn't be begging them to stay with us.
Isaaq have made their choice many times and I don't think they will ever change their mind, I wish them the best cause they are my fellow Somalis but I know for a fact that they will always try to sabotage Somalia as long as we keep them in the union.
They simply don't want us and we should accept it
That's why need to focus on the other clans in S/land because they still have some sense of somali unity

 

[Younes Osman]

Awdal as I’ve seen is Pro SL if they ever secede but their elders are Pro-Somalia and if Somaliland doesn’t secede soon Awdal will be uncertain.

I thought the elders where Pro SL. plus, I think the referendum was based on one man, one woman and one vote from every province in SL. Therefore, a third referendum would resolve in most people in favour of independence. Plus, there are people in SL regardless of independences they don't want Konfurta government. if I was in SL, I would have voted in favour of independences due to the fact that I believe there is a misunderstanding between sl and konfurta in regards to what to power sharing which daters back all the way to Egal and the 4 other guys going to xamar in 1960 for the purpose establishing a new country with their southern neighbours. My gran parents, Parents and the rest of the family don't see Somalia as their country of origin and that is many families all over SL diaspora that think that. secondly, I don't think SL would benefit from the reunion and the issaq and dir political powers would be restricted in comparison to D and H block. Thirdly, if SL and konfurta have talks in regards to the future there has to be someone who is sympathetic to the position of sl similarly like Hassan sheikh. SL and konfurta have a very different history as well as Djbouti. personally, I don't see Mr cheese as some that should be part of the negotiation because he is not very helpful. finally, it has to be resolved without questioning whether or not it would hinder the progression of Konfurta to operate as an establish government in their day to day activities. Furthermore, it has been 28 years now since the declaration of regaining their independence from Konfurta and the recognition could help SL greatly in regards to receiving capital from international investors and companies that want to invest in the country.

 

[Invader]

Most of the ones who were truly responsible for the isaaq massacre are dead. Siyaad and many of the Golaha sare kacaanka are dead.
Anyway for the sake of unity I'm ok with Somalia apologising officially to isaaq for what happened. In my opinion it wasn't a genocide but still horrible.
The problem is that isaaq don't really care that much,they will still want to separate even if Somalia becomes peaceful , recognizes the isaaq genocide and brings the perpetrators to the ICJ.
Let's keep in mind that the seed of isaaq separatism was already there in the 1960s.
Isaaq shouldn't get any special treatment, we shouldn't be begging them to stay with us.
Isaaq have made their choice many times and I don't think they will ever change their mind, I wish them the best cause they are my fellow Somalis but I know for a fact that they will always try to sabotage Somalia as long as we keep them in the union.
They simply don't want us and we should accept it
That's why need to focus on the other clans in S/land because they still have some sense of somali unity

Well just to tell you. The Gadabuursi are split. The Dhulos are split. Somehow the ciise is Pro Djibouti and I dunno about that Warsangalis. People from Awdal,Sanaag and Isaaq lands won’t secede unless Al Shabaab infiltrates the country property not just a village then Unity will come apart. Somalia needs to pay attention to what’s happening to themselves and move on.

 

[Younes Osman]

Most non isaaq elders are ideologically pro Somalia but they really want to see if independence is the best for their people.
Somalia has to convince them that United Somalia is the best thing for them.
If only waqooyi galbeed and toogdheer separate somaliland will be a very small country.
As a somaliweyn supporter I think we need to focus on convincing non-isaaq somalilanders if we want to keep as much territory in the north as we can , isaaqs are already to much pro independence to be convinced otherwise

But, that would mean that you are trying to establish a qabil state for the Isaaq by literally boxing them in like gaza strip

 

[Invader]

I thought the elders where Pro SL. plus, I think the referendum was based on one man, one woman and one vote from every province in SL. Therefore, a third referendum would resolve in most people in favour of independence. Plus, there are people in SL regardless of independences they don't want Konfurta government. if I was in SL, I would have voted in favour of independences due to the fact that I believe there is a misunderstanding between sl and konfurta in regards to what to power sharing which daters back all the way to Egal and the 4 other guys going to xamar in 1960 for the purpose establishing a new country with their southern neighbours. My gran parents, Parents and the rest of the family don't see Somalia as their country of origin and that is many families all over SL diaspora that think that. secondly, I don't think SL would benefit from the reunion and the issaq and dir political powers would be restricted in comparison to D and H block. Thirdly, if SL and konfurta have talks in regards to the future there has to be someone who is sympathetic to the position of sl similarly like Hassan sheikh. SL and konfurta have a very different history as well as Djbouti. personally, I don't see Mr cheese as some that should be part of the negotiation because he is not very helpful. finally, it has to be resolved without questioning whether or not it would hinder the progression of Konfurta to operate as an establish government in their day to day activities. Furthermore, it has been 28 years now since the declaration of regaining their independence from Konfurta and the recognition could help SL greatly in regards to receiving capital from international investors and companies that want to invest in the country.

That’s what I was trying to say the Diaspora even Dhulos and HYs in Bristol say they come from Somaliland.

 

[Younes Osman]

In the 2001 referendum many dhulnahante weren't allowed to vote, international observers weren't allowed to visit Sool. The result was 97% in favour of secession which is clearly an outcome that represents only isaaqs
Realistically in a single fair independence referendum indipendence would still win but a much smaller majority like 60-70% max

I think it would be half half in regards to favour or infavour of independence in the sool region.

 

[Soomaaliweyn]

That’s what I was trying to say the Diaspora even Dhulos and HYs in Bristol say they come from Somaliland.

I don't know about HY but doolos, especially the ones in the diaspora are anti- somalidiid. The ones home maybe want livelihoods and sign up to be police etc but even they hate it and do it simply for money. I remember visiting Ceerigaabo and seeing 2 of my uncles wearing the uniform. I guess it's either $100 a month or sit around wait for remittance only. Especially since 22/26 of my uncles/ aunts live back home in Somalia and only 4 of us can send money back. But it's just a hustle and when somalidiidland collapses or the somalidiids get their heads in order, then life will be good and our states will get much needed developments

 

[Rush]

If a single referendum was held in somaliland the independence would definitely win.
That's why we need to have a referendum in each region to figure out who wants to stay with Somalia and who wants to join S/land.
A referendum in each region is also good for the somaliland cause , if somaliland separates you guys will still have problems with darood unionist for the next decades. Those who want to leave the union with Somalia should be allowed to leave and those who want to stay shouldn't be forced to join S/land

Sool is the only region that will have a clear pro Somalia majority and maybe Sanaag.
Toogdheer W/Galbeed will vote for secession while Awdal is uncertain.
If awdal stays with Somalia it would be a problem because we won't have territorial continuity with them

Bro, you can not do it region by region, it has to be Somaliland-wide. If you do it region by region then you are creating even more mess:

Cerrigaabo district HY will vote for independence, but there are Dhulos and some Warsans there, do they get separated from Badhan?

What would happen to Caynabo and north Xudun (HJ and HY), who would 100% vote independence?

What would happen in Togdheer when the region votes for independence but parts of Buihoodle district choose independence whilst other parts choose Somalia?

Awdal would be split 3 ways, per wanting independence, part wanting Somalia, and a part wanting to join Djibouti.

It would be way too confusing. Cleanest way is to do it Somaliland wide.

 

[Tukraq]

Bro, you can not do it region by region, it has to be Somaliland-wide. If you do it region by region then you are creating even more mess:

What would happen to Caynabo and north Xudun (HJ and HY), who would 100% vote independence?

What would happen in Togdheer when the region votes for independence but parts of Buihoodle district choose independence whilst other parts choose Somalia?

Cerrigaabo district HY will vote for independence, but there are Dhulos and some Warsans there, do they get separated from Badhan?

Awdal would be split 3 ways, per wanting independence, part wanting Somalia, and a part wanting to join Djibouti.

It would be way too confusing. Cleanest way is to do it Somaliland wide.

Somaliland is disputed, some of the regions your mentioning are under puntland

 

[Invader]

Somaliland is disputed, some of the regions your mentioning are under puntland

You mean Majeerteenia.