Why I Now Support Somaliland Independence/Ictiraaf

[Karim]

Because A China exists and B even if Taiwan gets absorbed by China it wont turn into a global shithole, the main reason for seceding if you ask most Landers is that they dont want to be a part of the buuq and handicaps that come with being attached to Somalia, if SL and Taiwan traded places you wouldn't see this fierce desire to leave.

So it's a matter of convenience?!! They want to secede because the country is having problems?! That's not a concrete logical argument tbh.

 

[Abdisamad]

Objectively speaking a recognised Somaliland means the erasure of your kinsmen in Sool and Sanaag. @Thegoodshepherd

Let the @TheLand chimp out in peace lol.

 

[rayxn3]

Not self hatred I never said that we're somali I'm saying we're held back massively by being attached to Somalia since many of the things we need to improve the country come with being recognised and that isn't true that SL hasnt achieved anything when we're a stable entity and you've been at war for 30 plus years that is an achievement.

That’s not an achievement. Somaliland just had a conflict that caused 200 Somalis to die and thousands of Somalis to be displaced. It’s not stable nor is it peaceful in comparison to Somalia. A lot of landers have a false superiority complex.

 

[Arkan]

Any yours too?

Check my vote

 

[peterpeter]

So it's a matter of convenience?!! They want to secede because the country is having problems?! That's not a concrete logical argument tbh.

There are the historical reasons too, prior statehood, defined borders and settled population, past grievances, a history of being separated longer than we were together, (the concept of a Somali state only emerged during the 20th century). But regardless if Somalia had at least showed consistent progress (it has for the past couple of years ill admit but its always on a tight rope) then maybe id have more understanding but right now despite all of the progress its still the most fragile state in the world. Also yes I think secession is fine if a country is having problems and you want to shield yourself from it.

 

[Ya.dhahay]

Fighting rebels isnt handicapping the natives these rebels shouldnt be in SL there not from here there PL'ers who feel that the land is theirs.

Lol what a bizarre response. Thank you for proving my point.

reer ssc have been politically and economically sidelined for years, then the unsolved murders of more than a hundred communitymembers. They have no legitimacy in those lands it is what it is. In a sense SL is to non-isaaq clans what the FGS is to isaaq, utterly useless.

SL allowed these grievances to grow then responded with violence against unarmed protesters, how politically mature lol. Add the bizarre inflammatory rhethoric during the conflict to the mix, it’s a deeply unserious admin

you have no right to speak of ’rebels’ in lands that do not belong to you, you are far more alien and unwelcome than PLers in eastern Sool and Sanaag, sheekadas meel kale la tag.

 

[SilentE1001]

Many elite Isaaq are undercover Somali nationalists but hide their true feelings because of the riff raff being brainwashed by charlatans for years.

You are always obsessed with Tribalism that is why your folks put so much money to try and stoke tensions in laascaanood ever since 2007.

Laascaanood was close to be fully integrated before the conflict happened there was no bloodshed till this point it had not public services and investment than ever before in it's history.

You can't be honest and tell me that laascaanood and the wider border regions would do better under Somaliland then where it is now.

And don't just talk about some propaganda about soldiers directing traffic and new building

 

[TheLand]

Let the @TheLand chimp out in peace lol.

I already said those regions wouldn’t be included and why would it be the end of them and not his own people in Awdal? SSC is more than capable of defending themselves so id be more concerned about reer awdal tbh

 

[peterpeter]

That’s not an achievement. Somaliland just had a conflict that caused 200 Somalis to die and thousands of Somalis to be displaced. It’s not stable nor is it peaceful in comparison to Somalia. A lot of landers have a false superiority complex.

Superiority complex is one thing which I don't agree with I don't think looking down on somalis is a good idea, also the conflict was started by who if you want it to stop tell PL and the SSC thugs to retreat and go back to the region of the country this started with them.

 

[TheLand]

Check my vote

Oh I saw and chuckled sxb. You don’t even trust cambe Cirro miyaa

 

[Abdisamad]

I already said those regions wouldn’t be included and why would it be the end of them and not his own people in Awdal? SSC is more than capable of defending themselves so id be more concerned about reer awdal tbh

It's true, an independent SL will try take over harti lands..

 

[peterpeter]

Lol what a bizarre response. Thank you for proving my point.

reer ssc have been politically and economically sidelined for years, then the unsolved murders of more than a hundred communitymembers. They have no legitimacy in those lands it is what it is

SL allowed these grievances to grow then responded with violence against unarmed protesters, how politically mature lol. Add the bizarre inflammatory rhethoric during the conflict to the mix, it’s a deeply unserious admin

you have no right to speak of ’rebels’ in lands that do not belong to you, you are far more alien and unwelcome than PLers in eastern Sool and Sanaag, sheekadas meel kale la tag.

It isn't though the Dhulbante who live there arent unanimously for being a part of Somalia(most are before you jump down my throat) and there are other clans who live in SSC too like the warsengali PL supplies and agitates the conflict in the region, also this is cope i have relatives that live in ceergabio so i do have a say ku laaha alien speaking like these far right people.

 

[SilentE1001]

That’s not an achievement. Somaliland just had a conflict that caused 200 Somalis to die and thousands of Somalis to be displaced. It’s not stable nor is it peaceful in comparison to Somalia. A lot of landers have a false superiority complex.

Look at the wider causes and who gained the most from it.

PL stoke tribal tensions as they saw themselves losing their grip on it politically and economically.

The year before it kicked off they had a whole session on how goods from Somaliland were dominating their market and the trade through sool.

Their hatred for Somaliland and tribal made them to this and they know the now former president has a short fuse and can't think diplomatically and used heavy handed approached which made the initial unrest worse and gave those on the edge an excuse. Then the whole of Somalia came together as this was an opportunity that can't be missed to ruin Somaliland independence claim to take a portion and had a blind load twitter/Facebook army to constantly post every hour of every day to turn the public conscious against Somaliland

It's always money, power and Tribalism

 

[peterpeter]

Look at the wider causes and who gained the most from it.

PL stoke tribal tensions as they saw themselves losing their grip on it politically and economically.

The year before it kicked off they had a whole session on how goods from Somaliland were dominating their market and the trade through sool.

Their hatred for Somaliland and tribal made them to this and they know the now former president has a short fuse and can't think diplomatically and used heavy handed approached which made the initial unrest worse and gave those on the edge an excuse. Then the whole of Somalia came together as this was an opportunity that can't be missed to ruin Somaliland independence claim to take a portion and had a blind load twitter/Facebook army to constantly post every hour of every day to turn the public conscious against Somaliland

It's always money, power and Tribalism

Exactly and you have people here who want to listen to their own headcanon its laughable sxb no is denying we have to resolve greviances but look how quickly they go to the worst case scenario.

 

[rayxn3]

Superiority complex is one thing which I don't agree with I don't think looking down on somalis is a good idea, also the conflict was started by who if you want it to stop tell PL and the SSC thugs to retreat and go back to the region of the country this started with them.

Thugs? The conflict started because somaliland claims territory that includes Laascaanood when they identify more with Somalia. Don’t claim a territory that isn’t yours and then tell them to retreat. It’s their land. People from somaliland have a superiority complex and your dreams of becoming an independent country will never come true inshallah.

 

[Karim]

Your comparison to Taiwan makes no sense because China is not a complete and utter failure filled with terrorists. If it was, it would deserve to be recognized.

'The secessionist ideology in that region was invented by 1 out of the 5 main clans in the north, they cannot force their own political agendas onto others and it's not fair to the rest.' - Many clans in Somalia don't want federalism either, that much is clear. Many also don't want centralism. Why is that political agenda being forced on them? The logic must be applied fairly and evenly.

WHY DO THEY DESERVE TO SECEDE FROM THE COUNTRY?! - if it is a question of being 'deserving' then why does any country 'deserve' to be a country, other than to protect and serve its citizens? Why then does Somalia deserve to be a country? Can you even call it a country? None of the presidents since 1969 have been elected, they don't control outside the capital, they require thousands of foreign forces, people flee constantly due to lack of opportunities and murder by terrorists. Is Somalia and more 'deserving' than SL? Was South Sudan deserving?

SL deserves to be its own country because SL'ers get nothing out of Somalia just as PLers don't. They have essentially been their own country in all but name for the past 30 years.

@Karim Do you believe that SL must stay within Somalia no matter what happens? Even if Somalia crumbles back to the warlord and terrorist era? Where do you draw the line? Are you saying that a country can never break apart?

I feel like you're having problems directly addressing my question of WHY they do deserve it?! You cannot possibly defend your argument by questioning the legitimacy of Somalia as a country because that's a fact beyond reasonable doubt according to the international LAW. Somalia was created on July 1st, 1960 and "landers" were fairly happy with the union as the blue flag was raised in Hargeisa on 26th of June, 1960. The creation of Somalia was legitimate and all uniting parties involved were pleased and content. Countries cannot be easily dismantled once ratified and created. Civil wars, economical, social problems happen all the time, it causes the deaths and starvation of millions, it doesn't mean that specific country needs to be broken into smaller pieces. The argument that says "We want to secede because Somalia is a shithole" is utterly moronic and illogical because many countries have experienced such tumultuous times and now doing better and progressing very well.

 

[peterpeter]

Thugs? The conflict started because somaliland claims territory that includes Laascaanood when they identify more with Somalia. Don’t claim a territory that isn’t yours and then tell them to retreat. It’s their land. People from somaliland have a superiority complex and your dreams of becoming an independent country will never come true inshallah.

walaalo its more complicated than that the dhulbante in the area yes are more pro somalia thats true but a lot of regions in the SSC are dominated by clans that are pro SL, we should have a vote in those regions before anything is determined but i dont like the blanket statement that SSC is pro unionist.

 

[TheLand]

I feel like you're having problems directly addressing my question of WHY they do deserve it?! You cannot possibly defend your argument by questioning the legitimacy of Somalia as a country because that's a fact beyond reasonable doubt according to the international LAW. Somalia was created on July 1st, 1960 and "landers" were fairly happy with the union as the blue flag was raised in Hargeisa on 26th of June, 1960. The creation of Somalia was legitimate and all uniting parties involved were pleased and content. Countries cannot be easily dismantled once ratified and created. Civil wars, economical, social problems happen all the time, it causes the deaths and starvation of millions, it doesn't mean that specific country needs to be broken into smaller pieces. The argument that says "We want to secede because Somalia is a shithole" is utterly moronic and illogical because many countries have experienced such tumultuous times and now doing better and progressing very well.

You need to be more clear about what your argument or counter argument is and stick to it. Here you are talking at first about whether SL is ‘deserving’ and then you conflate that somehow with international law. That makes no sense because if it’s an argument about international law then what does it matter whether a country is ‘deserving’? The law doesn’t care about that. You need to pick one and be less ambiguous.

 

[Ya.dhahay]

SL is like Siyad Barres regime, except much worse. You get all the negatives: political repression, militarization, dead private sector but with none of the positives: SAFETY , access to free (good) education and healthcare, development projects

to top it off those that govern your land have no decorum they’re publicly yelling qabil slurs (FAQASHHH) and making genocidal remarks kkkkk

all while demanding u stay loyal to their fictive state, yaaahuuu

 

[rayxn3]

walaalo its more complicated than that the dhulbante in the area yes are more pro somalia thats true but a lot of regions in the SSC are dominated by clans that are pro SL, we should have a vote in those regions before anything is determined but i dont like the blanket statement that SSC is pro unionist.

I still think a vote would show that the majority are unionists.