Why have Khatuumo and Maakhir not formed a union

[Adalian]

Has there ever been a dialogue between these 2 political entities, or what remains of it, to work together? If they don't want to be a part of SL seceding, but don't want to join PL as a regional state either, what's stopping them from sharing the seat of a regional state that would be accepted as part of the federal process?

They both lack what the other has. Khatuumo needs a port and Maakhir needs capital. Laas Qorey is no Bosaso or Berbera but it could be developed into such with the support of Mogadishu which would benefit from decreasing the political leverage of SL and PL. The planned Hobyo port is an example.

Nothing against the people of SL and PL, but it's clear as day who runs the show in their respective administrations, and it's within their right. Self-determination is the way forward for Somalia, and certain groups have to compromise if they do not possess the political or economic weight to represent themselves independently such as smaller or landlocked clans. This would not be the case with a Khatuumo-Maakhir union. So what gives? Has there ever been any talks?

 

[DR OSMAN]

PL has the same vision as Makhir/Khatumo. We agreed to create a regional state to protect each other against other tribes, not because we want to war with the other tribes, so we can have peace while we work on resurrecting the Somali state. In PL we do not sit there wasting our times on regionalism, we use it as protection buffer so we can work in peace from other Somali clans who have no moved beyond the civil war like GM oo halkeedi jogga, it looks like 92 puntland with 3 different leaders in Qardho-Galkayo-Garowe. Their 30 years behind niyahow, waa wejigi Puntland ay lahayd 92ki iyo 93ki which is the face you see in Galmudug with ahlul sunnah and sfg, cadaado ximan iyo xeeb, baraxlay and hobyo another government. These people are so backwards. Weli calooshooda waxaa ku jira dagaaladi sokeeye, kama dhaqaaqin illa manta, ama maxaa sidasi uu eekaysiye gurigooda.

Borama conference collapsed after 93. They went to war in 95/96? shirkasi halal ma ahayn ama ma burburin lahayn. It was fake conference or else why it self destructed in a few years? they tried top-down approach and top-down approach doesn't work, it must be bottom up like the harti conference in 98. You can't force anyone in Somalia or bring jabhad like SNM to tell people what they should do. It doesn't work. They had another conference in 97, that conference was purely non-agreement, they agreed to co-exist only but not agreement between hj/ha(maryalool) against HY. They agreed to not agree but not to kill each other only.

They have ever since been working on the destruction of the Somali state sending in dulis into calmadow, paying ssc soldiers, paying makhiri soldiers, operating inside shabab in mogadishu and galgala. This is what happens when clans don't agree bro, they agree to destroy something else. Similar thing happened in GM markay arkeen inaysan heeshin karin bay alitihaad(precursor of shabab) iyo qurun kasto dalka soo geliyeen si dalka uusan uu heeshin. I hope Isaaq come to unity, it's best for all Somali intended then they won't focus on us and be at peace with themselves but that won't happen since Somalis prefer to deny their problems and then it slips over to other clans their problems like PL is having to deal with from GM/SL

A clan who isn't in agreement among themselves, is the most destructive clan in Somalia, a clan who does have an agreement usually work towards SHARED GOALS between that clan.

 

[Adalian]

PL has the same vision as Makhir/Khatumo. We agreed to create a regional state to protect each other against other tribes, not because we want to war with the other tribes, so we can have peace while we work on resurrecting the Somali state.

If this was the case, why is there a clear lack of unity between PL and Khatuumo or Maakhir?

We can argue if SL is behind the disunity, and you would probably be right, but we also know that segments of those populations are not happy about the lack of representation in PL. Whether they are right or wrong is besides the point, as everything knows the nature of Somalis. Everyone wants their man to be the president but only a few can be.

Now we can both agree that if a referendum was done in Khatuumo & Maakhir today, with the options being:

1-PL, 2-SL, 3-Own Maamul

80% of them would choose the latter, not out of spite but out of a right for self-determination which PL enjoys. Now that hasn't happened but the question of this thread was why haven't they chosen a 4th option, that is to come together and form a regional state.

 

[DR OSMAN]

If this was the case, why is there a clear lack of unity between PL and Khatuumo or Maakhir?

We can argue if SL is behind the disunity, and you would probably be right, but we also know that segments of those populations are not happy about the lack of representation in PL. Whether they are right or wrong is besides the point, as everything knows the nature of Somalis. Everyone wants their man to be the president but only a few can be.

Now we can both agree that if a referendum was done in Khatuumo & Maakhir today, with the options being:

1-PL, 2-SL, 3-Own Maamul

80% of them would choose the latter, not out of spite but out of a right for self-determination which PL enjoys. Now that hasn't happened but the question of this thread was why haven't they chosen a 4th option, that is to come together and form a regional state.

Why would Warsangeli join Dhulbahante? see since one can only be president(most likely dhulbahante), isn't it wiser they stay in PL? after-all your saying every clan wants to be president but there is only 1 spot at all times. Plus Warsangeli is closer to Majerten then Dhulbahante which is another factor that you need to equate for, the blood factor. Why join someone who is further blood wise and then play second fiddle in this fictious khatumo/makhir state? it's impossible u see, they are not even attempting this luducrous samaboon idea.

It's like saying let issa/samaboon form an awdal state, why wud issa join to play second fiddle as VP when samaboon most likely be president. You see the federalism we have may not be perfect but the alternative you are offering doesn't provide a cure to problems either but may even make it worse.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Warsans are PLers, speak for beesha si socco so socco only.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Warsans are PLers, speak for beesha si socco so socco only.

It's just your typical samaboon idea, they are educated but their NOT educated on Somali culture, they lack this touch and when they apply solutions it totally gets rejected because it doesn't fit into our cultural tribal set up and our shared 'somali' idealism which we are trying to get to work for all of us. Samaboon must stay out of politics, they are not suited for it. I can see why Isaaq call em kabashaagle. Only a duli like ahmed samatar who got raised by a majerten reer hersi and was given scholarships by him abshir waldo to only come to tukaraq in 2017 to give food to SNM soldiers?So what makes u think he won't do this to ID22R when he did it to abshir waldo? They did the same thing with siyad barre giving food to them against id22r, this clan have no sense of culture ama dhaqanki somaliyeed ma yaqanan, u ever hear of 'samaboon gabyaa"? kuwani iska jir waryaa dad gob ma aha, heck I would say they are not even humans because even humans don't behave like that. Only a kabashaagle can do such things or as I call em SAMABOONS.

Do not be fooled by ppl 'smiling faces'. The samaboon has a smiley and acts like his 'educated' and 'reer magaal' and all that shit, it's how southerners operate also. When you ask them about tribe they act like their 'clueless' loooooool but their not, it's all a game and show. These ppl lack understanding of the culture and do ina gumeed acts, so noone will trust them with leadership of our qaran because he will be an ina gumeed culture-less loser who may damage our nation state respectability in the world.

 

[Farm]

Warsangeli are in PL and have nothing to do with the failed Khaatumo project. Dhulos recently attacked Warsangeli in their own lands on behalf of their Isaaq masters.

 

[Adalian]

Why would Warsangeli join Dhulbahante? see since one can only be president(most likely dhulbahante), isn't it wiser they stay in PL? after-all your saying every clan wants to be president but there is only 1 spot at all times. Plus Warsangeli is closer to Majerten then Dhulbahante which is another factor that you need to equate for, the blood factor. Why join someone who is further blood wise and then play second fiddle in this fictious khatumo/makhir state? it's impossible u see, they are not even attempting this luducrous samaboon idea.

It's like saying let issa/samaboon form an awdal state, why wud issa join to play second fiddle as VP when samaboon most likely be president. You see the federalism we have may not be perfect but the alternative you are offering doesn't provide a cure to problems either but may even make it worse.

In PL only one of the 3 you mentioned holds the seat. That might not be the case in the future but as of now lets deal with the facts on the ground. Both SL and PL ministry have people in their administration that come from Khatuumo and Maakhir, and no one from those lands have excommunicated those people so one has to assume that there is segments on both sides that are pro SL and pro PL. That is an issue that has yet to be resolved.

Ideally the person most qualified should be the leader of the state, but we as Somalis are not ideal. Self-determination should allow groups to represent their constituents on a regional level. PL has that right, SL has that right, others should as well. If Maakhir and Khatuumo couldn't agree on a 50/50 sharing power because one shares a mother with PL centuries ago then we as Somalis have deep seeded issues with tribalism.

 

[DR OSMAN]

In PL only one of the 3 you mentioned holds the seat. That might not be the case in the future but as of now lets deal with the facts on the ground. Both SL and PL ministry have people in their administration that come from Khatuumo and Maakhir, and no one from those lands have excommunicated those people so one has to assume that there is segments on both sides that are pro SL and pro PL. That is an issue that has yet to be resolved.

Ideally the person most qualified should be the leader of the state, but we as Somalis are not ideal. Self-determination should allow groups to represent their constituents on a regional level. PL has that right, SL has that right, others should as well. If Maakhir and Khatuumo couldn't agree on a 50/50 sharing power because one shares a mother with PL centuries ago then we as Somalis have deep seeded issues with tribalism.

I am not sure what world you live in. Go to Las anod and Badhan or any area of sool and sanaag, the people are pro somalia. So it's not the civilians. Then check their 'traditional elders' and you will see not a single one is in Hargeisa. The only ones who are suspected of being somalilanders are 2 'garad jamac' and even they can't show their face in public being somalilander or else their people will riot in the streets. But all their elders can proudly show their face as Puntlanders and Somalia, and the people never riot, why?

Now down to politicians, yes politicians will go where-ever there is a job but do they represent their people will? well the only way to check is to go to each tuulo and city in sool/sanaag and you know deep down these people are pro somalia, so why waste your time with your far-fetched theories? That's why SL relies on 'payments' or 'jeegaan' loooooooool, they have no other way to remain present in these regions, they have to buy out politicians

 

[Adalian]

It's just your typical samaboon idea, they are educated but their NOT educated on Somali culture, they lack this touch and when they apply solutions it totally gets rejected because it doesn't fit into our cultural tribal set up and our shared 'somali' idealism which we are trying to get to work for all of us. Samaboon must stay out of politics, they are not suited for it. I can see why Isaaq call em kabashaagle. Only a duli like ahmed samatar who got raised by a majerten reer hersi and was given scholarships by him abshir waldo to only come to tukaraq in 2017 to give food to SNM soldiers?So what makes u think he won't do this to ID22R when he did it to abshir waldo? They did the same thing with siyad barre giving food to them against id22r, this clan have no sense of culture ama dhaqanki somaliyeed ma yaqanan, u ever hear of 'samaboon gabyaa"? kuwani iska jir waryaa dad gob ma aha, heck I would say they are not even humans because even humans don't behave like that. Only a kabashaagle can do such things or as I call em SAMABOONS.

Do not be fooled by ppl 'smiling faces'. The samaboon has a smiley and acts like his 'educated' and 'reer magaal' and all that shit, it's how southerners operate also. When you ask them about tribe they act like their 'clueless' loooooool but their not, it's all a game and show. These ppl lack understanding of the culture and do ina gumeed acts, so noone will trust them with leadership of our qaran because he will be an ina gumeed culture-less loser who may damage our nation state respectability in the world.

Since when was Adal represented by Samaroons? Just because they called their land Awdal doesn't make them the sole owners of that empire.

In fact claiming it as only a Somali-run kingdom would be naive. One could argue Somalis were no more than foot soldiers.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

dhulbahante is the black sheep of the fmaily, harti and darood, confused, confusing, not very smart, warlike yet will serve another tribe, 1door, will never agree to anything, always cuqdad, they are truly the lowest IQ in the somali world, how can you allow 1door to rule you and help 1door attack your own harti cousins?

waa dhuli

 

[DR OSMAN]

dhulbahante is the black sheep of the fmaily, harti and darood, confused, confusing, not very smart, warlike yet will serve another tribe, 1door, will never agree to anything, always cuqdad, they are truly the lowest IQ in the somali world, how can you allow 1door to rule you and help 1door attack your own harti cousins?

waa dhuli

At least when you controlled him Sayid Era, it was for a cause that gave birth to our Somalinimo that we use today, what he gets from id33r and his madness of somali-diid and joining in the disagreement inside isaaq since 96 war between themselves which created two camps HA/HJ the jeegaan vs HY. Their beef was never resolved, they just agreed to never agree. Clans who don't agree tend to focus on destruction of other clans I have noticed this trend. Marehan is a good example, since their is no agreement inside of them, their just continously in war mode, same with dhulos notice, continous in war mode, the only one hurting here is THEM. Pray 4 peace for those disunited clans bro, cuz their shit spills over to you in the end as you can see madoobe battle with marehan and pl battle with id23r.

 

[Tukraq]

There’s already the Harti state of PL

 

[DR OSMAN]

dhulbahante is the black sheep of the fmaily, harti and darood, confused, confusing, not very smart, warlike yet will serve another tribe, 1door, will never agree to anything, always cuqdad, they are truly the lowest IQ in the somali world, how can you allow 1door to rule you and help 1door attack your own harti cousins?

waa dhuli

@Teeri-Alpha when you controlled him under sayid, yeah sure, he attacked his harti cousins as he always does, but hey we today are now believers of somalinimo, we accept there was some benefit from that. Heck even when Siyad @Dues Ex Machete controlled his ass, we appreciate it, we long for the days of a government now, he was fighting for a just cause defending our qaranimo and telling us tribe will just make us qaxoti like it eventually did.

Now MJ said let me control you for once in your history and work on rebuilding that same concept of somalinimo your ancestors died for as darwish, he throws an ape shit and goes to somali-diid loooooooooool. Their weird people, they don't mind being controlled by other clans as long as it's not majerten. They don't care if your somali-diid or not, they have this historical dis-stain for majerten.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

There’s already the Harti state of PL

this 4.5 BS does not even make sense, harti with all thsoe lands get less Mps then eley who share 50% of bakool with cawlyahan ogaden, and the rest with biomal etc, galnus gets a state, harti should easily be having 2 states,

dhulbahante are not very intellegence,t the more i observe them, the more i relaise its becasue all their reer abti are 1door, they have fudeed, low IQ, they talk too much , they have a lot of cqdad,

when we freed kismayo in 2012, a dhulbahante told my abti we will send 40 technikas to free kismayo from Ogaden, my abti said go and frree las canood first,

whilst mj is quite, strategic, dhulbahante is like 24/7 high on crack, their girls, man, all fudeed 98% of the time,

i say MJ need to get hold of them and beat them, like a crazy brother, read deen on them, hold them, and karbash them, then rule them for 100 years and ban marriage to 1door,

Ogaden of old used to avoid rulers who had reer abti 1door, simply because they may have their fudeed culture and love for Alcohol, wallahi Ogaden of old were full of wisdom

this is why its hard t kill your abti if your mixed, hence why you need full blooded dhulo to rule them or an MJ,

 

[Farjano-Walad]

@Teeri-Alpha when you controlled him under sayid, yeah sure, he attacked his harti cousins as he always does, but hey we today are now believers of somalinimo, we accept there was some benefit from that. Heck even when Siyad @Dues Ex Machete controlled his ass, we appreciate it, we long for the days of a government now, he was fighting for a just cause defending our qaranimo and telling us tribe will just make us qaxoti like it eventually did.

Now MJ said let me control you for once in your history and work on rebuilding that same concept of somalinimo your ancestors died for as darwish, he throws an ape shit and goes to somali-diid loooooooooool. Their weird people, they don't mind being controlled by other clans as long as it's not majerten. They don't care if your somali-diid or not, they have this historical dis-stain for majerten.

there was an Absame tribe that used to do this hundreds of years ago - though they had the first somali kings, jidwaq, we karbashed each other and all Absame ganged on them back in the 1600s and we set them straight, actually it was bartire, not all jidwaq, even abaskuul who are jidwaq joined us, we made them humble and said stop acting arrogant, maybe its different as they are the eldest and wanted to rule us with iron grip, we smashed them then made a deal, we made agreements,

this is what you need to do, smash them, i know Mj is not knwon to stand his ground during wars as they are not built to last in battles, but be firm, eat them, then eat 1door, you must unite and rule harti, no if, be like Mohamed Zubeer, they always place Kuuamade interest first, no if, they will eat others alive to make sure we are united, this is muxamuud salbeen job, every tribe needs one hardcore unit that enforces the law, since other Mj are clueless, i mean look at cali salebaan, masters of ISIS in somalia, why?

 

[Louis Vuitton Don]

this 4.5 BS does not even make sense, harti with all thsoe lands get less Mps then eley who share 50% of bakool with cawlyahan ogaden, and the rest with biomal etc, galnus gets a state, harti should easily be having 2 states,

dhulbahante are not very intellegence,t the more i observe them, the more i relaise its becasue all their reer abti are 1door, they have fudeed, low IQ, they talk too much , they have a lot of cqdad,

when we freed kismayo in 2012, a dhulbahante told my abti we will send 40 technikas to free kismayo from Ogaden, my abti said go and frree las canood first,

whilst mj is quite, strategic, dhulbahante is like 24/7 high on crack, their girls, man, all fudeed 98% of the time,

i say MJ need to get hold of them and beat them, like a crazy brother, read deen on them, hold them, and karbash them, then rule them for 100 years and ban marriage to 1door,

Ogaden of old used to avoid rulers who had reer abti 1door, simply because they may have their fudeed culture and love for Alcohol, wallahi Ogaden of old were full of wisdom

this is why its hard t kill your abti if your mixed, hence why you need full blooded dhulo to rule them or an MJ,

Dhullos are going through a civil war. PL should do a better job of arming them. Majority of dhulbahante support PL over SL. The problem is SL arms their “side” better. The dhullos of sool, sanaag, and cayn all for the most part don’t like SL because there darood.

Dhullos don’t have a port so how can they get arms to defend themselves from other dhullos who sold them out for money?

It’s not “easy” to smash dhulbahante. Like Ogaden, these guys have killers. There a top fighting clan. A few dhullo militia got all their land to SL, imagine if the other side had weapons. In any case, dhulbahante soon, are gonna exterminate each other.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

Since when was Adal represented by Samaroons? Just because they called their land Awdal doesn't make them the sole owners of that empire.

In fact claiming it as only a Somali-run kingdom would be naive. One could argue Somalis were no more than foot soldiers.

And who were the generals and leaders do you propose?

 

[DR OSMAN]

there was an Absame tribe that used to do this hundreds of years ago - though they had the first somali kings, jidwaq, we karbashed each other and all Absame ganged on them back in the 1600s and we set them straight, actually it was bartire, not all jidwaq, even abaskuul who are jidwaq joined us, we made them humble and said stop acting arrogant, maybe its different as they are the eldest and wanted to rule us with iron grip, we smashed them then made a deal, we made agreements,

this is what you need to do, smash them, i know Mj is not knwon to stand his ground during wars as they are not built to last in battles, but be firm, eat them, then eat 1door, you must unite and rule harti, no if, be like Mohamed Zubeer, they always place Kuuamade interest first, no if, they will eat others alive to make sure we are united, this is muxamuud salbeen job, every tribe needs one hardcore unit that enforces the law, since other Mj are clueless, i mean look at cali salebaan, masters of ISIS in somalia, why?

Exactly I agree. We have established clans with lots of history in politics and strong elite base. Like this naabnaab @Cognitivedissonance I keep telling him we respect the boqor and bah dir and what they have established but they need to now either step aside if they can't keep control, this nigga lost not only baargaal and hafun and is second tier clan to siwaqroon, he lost caluula too. He used to be mightiest clan in Gurdafu zone of Bari.

This where the boqor capital was in Baargaal, now you see a bunch of siwaqroon living there as squatters and grazing the outside miyi. His even losing isku shuban to ali saleban. So we keep telling them, ti awoowashina hadadan ilashan karin, which is the land, we don't trust you anymore to look after osman mahmoud clan interest and to take a seat and let other clans who have been working hard in the background to establish themselves take the rule. Or lets operate like the omar mahmoud who invest their brains into reer hersi, invest their ciidaan into reer mahad, invest their rich capitalists into reer abdulle who went as truck drivers in the 70s into africa and now own large oil sectors and transportation sectors of many african countries.

Omar mahmoud is setting himself up to take over maxamud saleban leadership, you can see it in the carefully laid out clan building. I keep reiterating to osman mahmoud before we lose any influence in maxamud saleban, we need to do something different to what we have been doing, which is just relying on our historical importance, history doesn't ensure you survive into the future. Being strategic and knowing both the 'culture' which is clan building and ensuring your clans-men and women marry into productive tribes bro so we can 'learn' and 'steal' from them while ensuring our boys and girls have a group of elites in areas of importance like security, religion, business, and secular knowledge.

My clan bah dubays is very reer miyi, we should be consulted on cultural matters since that is what we 'expert' in. We need to be the source of Osman Mahmoud to ensure the elites ideas can actually co-exist with the culture or not. Elitism and academics alone will not ensure your success in Somalia. Look how many PHD holders we have and what the hell have they achieved? it's cause their lacking the final most important aspect, the cultural understanding of different areas of PL and also Somalia as a whole. You need to know the history of the place, the conflicts of the past and present, the clan structure and isimo(absent or strong), the goals of each clan, arimaha dhaqanka 'caadi' ma aha and it's very specialized field.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Teeri-Alpha your right about 'abtinimo' stuff. Clan elders in the past were strict about who their boys and girls marry. You can tell clearly about the 'bah bah' or 'habar habar' thing in so many clans. The most important for girls was 'hanti' since a girl doesn't carry on the lineage, so it was expected of girls to 'rake' in 'camels' for their marriage and the girls price would be up to 100 camels which is 100k today, and possibly a-lot more back in those days if adjusted for inflation. Plus the other purpose of girls was to create 'habar alliance' with a clan or influence but they would do that especially with clans they 'neighbored' but in Somalia it changed the whole dynamics, it was done mainly now for 'power reasons' in Somalia politics.

The MJ/ABGAAL thing has strong roots because of intermarriage pact between the two and agreements that 'hawiye will fall under abgaal' and 'darod will fall under mj'. They ensured their girls/boys married from one and another. I mean the TOP ELITES, not the ordinary 'shacab' who would marry whoever they liked. The clan elders ensured this because the days of marrying your neighbor wasn't as important now because this new nation state and power structures being in Mogadishu.