Why do most Somalis blame tribalism caused Somalia's downfall?

Do you think tribalism destroyed Somalia?

  • Yes

  • No


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Manafesto

[Cali Saleebaan][Migiurtinia]
VIP
HalimoEnthusiast
I have seen plenty of Somalis who constantly mention tribalism as the major cause of our failed state, it is a baseless accusation with zero truth to it, we really have to stop this and blame our political leaders and foreign intervention instead, plenty of countries in the world have tribes likes us and enjoy peace and prosperity.
 

Awdalia Rising

SSpot Special Correspondent
Of course tribalism destroyed Somalia and it was Afweyne that did it. Government ministries were led by unqualified MX who came from the bush all because they were related to Afweyne. Failmaajo himself was working in the Somali embassy in DC with no education he too came from the bush but he was related to Afweyne
 

Manafesto

[Cali Saleebaan][Migiurtinia]
VIP
HalimoEnthusiast
Tribalism destroyed Somalia, everybody knows that.
Care to elaborate?

Even if we didn't have tribes and clan system back home we would have used regional connection to support a politician which is basically not that different from tribalism.

For example If I am from Bossaso and a presidential candidate for my hometown is running against a Baydhabo candidate who do you think I will vote for?:wtfdis:it is inevitable and it's a human nature to prefer a candidate from your region over others, many American voters root for a candidate from their town over other's hence why most US presidential candidates always win their home state at a wide margin.:reallymaury:
 
Somalia collapsed for a variety of reasons. The country was a military dictatorship with no adequate balance of power. There was no bill of rights, independent judiciary, journalists, or any viable paths to change the political leadership of the nation. So a violent, localised uprisings became the only means of political change.

After the failed war to liberate Somali Galbeed, Barre increasingly relied upon his clan for political support; further alienating the population and driving them into the arms of rebel groups. This also had a secondary effect of incompetent individuals taking control of important state institutions due to clan affiliation. The economic stats from 1980s onwards highlight the governments disastrous policies and misplaced priorities.

Finally, the political and material support of rebel groups by Ethiopia cannot be understated. Mengistu leveraged these clan militia to destroy Barre's regime. This combined with the end of the Cold War meant that the Somali government was bankrupt and could no longer fight for control.

The collapse cannot solely be blamed on qabilism. However, the inability of different clans to compromise post-collapse can be. Somalia had a real chance of ushering in a new government but this was swept to the wayside because of the politicisation of clan identity. Why fight for a whole Somalia when you can just create a clan-based government? Hence, Somaliland seceded, closely followed by Puntland.

The answer is complicated.
 
Care to elaborate?

Even if we didn't have tribes and clan system back home we would have used regional connection to support a politician which is basically not that different from tribalism.

For example If I am from Bossaso and a presidential candidate for my hometown is running against a Baydhabo candidate who do you think I will vote for?:wtfdis:it is inevitable and it's a human nature to prefer a candidate from your region over others, many American voters root for a candidate from their town over other's hence why most US presidential candidates always win their home state at a wide margin.:reallymaury:
Ping me when Texas and California fight because of a well:mjdontkno:
 

Awdalia Rising

SSpot Special Correspondent
Somalia collapsed for a variety of reasons. The country was a military dictatorship with no adequate balance of power. There was no bill of rights, independent judiciary, journalists, or any viable paths to change the political leadership of the nation. So a violent, localised uprisings became the only means of political change.

After the failed war to liberate Somali Galbeed, Barre increasingly relied upon his clan for political support; further alienating the population and driving them into the arms of rebel groups. This also had a secondary effect of incompetent individuals taking control of important state institutions due to clan affiliation. The economic stats from 1980s onwards highlight the governments disastrous policies and misplaced priorities.

Finally, the political and material support of rebel groups by Ethiopia cannot be understated. Mengistu leveraged these clan militia to destroy Barre's regime. This combined with the end of the Cold War meant that the Somali government was bankrupt and could no longer fight for control.

The collapse cannot solely be blamed on qabilism. However, the inability of different clans to compromise post-collapse can be. Somalia had a real chance of ushering in a new government but this was swept to the wayside because of the politicisation of clan identity. Why fight for a whole Somalia when you can just create a clan-based government? Hence, Somaliland seceded, closely followed by Puntland.

The answer is complicated.
Puntland never seceded though. Only Somaliland did and that was AFTER hawiye USC refused to create an inclusive government post 91. Somaliland left and Puntland was too busy fighting USC to secede. Puntland wanted to create a government in Mogadishu by force , Somaliland didn’t care to be involved with the clown show any longer
 
Puntland never seceded though. Only Somaliland did and that was AFTER hawiye USC refused to create an inclusive government post 91. Somaliland stayed and Puntland was too busy fighting USC to secede. Puntland wanted to create a government in Mogadishu by force , Somaliland didn’t care to be involved with the clown show any longer
Exactly political differences driven largely by clan realpolitik prevented the establishment of a new Somali Republic.
 

Awdalia Rising

SSpot Special Correspondent
Exactly political differences driven largely by clan realpolitik prevented the establishment of a new Somali Republic.
In reality clannism was behind most of Somalia’s failures. Siad turning the original 8 Somali regions into 18 for clan reasons. Of the 12 added 7 were for his clan. 77 war was ill advised but Siad gave order to march ahead mainly due to clan reasons. Don’t confuse the average persons somalinimo with Siad’s intentions, he wanted that war for the same reason he created 12 new clan regions with more than half given to his own clan.

clannism started in 1969. By 1980 it reached a fever pitch in government levels. The mooryans of 91 were simply settling clan scores brought to their city by Afweyne and his people. Afweyne was the original mooryan....
 

Gambar

VIP
Clan nepotism and suppression was the reason for the fall of the country along with no industry to support the economy (it was aid dependent). Siad Barre was a tuug who pissed off his own allies and created refugees the country couldn’t even handle in 77. They were the first refugees to settle in the West. Most were students. By then Somalia was pretty much hanging on by a thread and it became worse during his accident.
 

Pwyneth Galtrow

Puntland 💙✰💚 Ha Noolaato
VIP
Somalia collapsed for a variety of reasons. The country was a military dictatorship with no adequate balance of power. There was no bill of rights, independent judiciary, journalists, or any viable paths to change the political leadership of the nation. So a violent, localised uprisings became the only means of political change.

After the failed war to liberate Somali Galbeed, Barre increasingly relied upon his clan for political support; further alienating the population and driving them into the arms of rebel groups. This also had a secondary effect of incompetent individuals taking control of important state institutions due to clan affiliation. The economic stats from 1980s onwards highlight the governments disastrous policies and misplaced priorities.

Finally, the political and material support of rebel groups by Ethiopia cannot be understated. Mengistu leveraged these clan militia to destroy Barre's regime. This combined with the end of the Cold War meant that the Somali government was bankrupt and could no longer fight for control.

The collapse cannot solely be blamed on qabilism. However, the inability of different clans to compromise post-collapse can be. Somalia had a real chance of ushering in a new government but this was swept to the wayside because of the politicisation of clan identity. Why fight for a whole Somalia when you can just create a clan-based government? Hence, Somaliland seceded, closely followed by Puntland.

The answer is complicated.




Why are you lying about Puntland?

When did Puntland declare independence? :gucciwhat:

Puntland created a government in 1998 and hosted internally displaced Somalis from all over Somalia. Puntland then invited other Somalis to form an inclusive government, this was finally realised in 2004. The federal government in Mogadishu? Created by Puntland using Puntland finances.

There would be no government in Mogadishu right now if it wasn't for Puntland.

If we had in fact declared independence and minded our own business, AlShabab and other terror would still be ruling the entire South.

I cannot take you seriously until you learn the real history.
 
It's the main reason why Somalia is in the state it's in.
Clans in Somalia are like sub national entities, instead of having loyalty towards the state, clan members saw the state as the vehicle to achieve security and domination. Any action by a ruling authority (postive or negative) would also be seen through the microcosm of typical clan politics.
 

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