Why didn't ancient Cushites adopt widespread farming?

[Khaem]

The Cushitic race came about in the Nike valley of Sudan 10,000 years ago when natufian tribes crossing into Africa from the Levant migrated south from prehistoric Egypt and mixed with the Proto nilotic populations.

Natufians who are the ancestors of North African Berbers, Semetic middle east, and Cushtiic east africans. We're the first humans to leave the hunter gatherer lifestyle 12,000 years ago and adopt farming. They brought farming to places like Iraq and Egypt which became the cradle of civilization.

The interesting thing is, when the Cushtic people formed, we took on the Nomadic lifestyle of our Proto nilotic side rather than the farming natufians. Ofc many cushites farmed along the nile valley which is why we get the Nubian/Kush civilisation from. But largely we didn't do it. Cushites expanded all over east coast Africa from southeastern Egypt, to South Africa.

But due to our nomadic life being heavily reliant on livestock. The tset tset fly brought disease which killed them some 1,500 years ago leading to famine and de population among south cushites. The farmer bantus who had recently expanded from Cameroon to all over the Congo jungle too advantage of this sparsely populated land and started leaving their jungles to farm in the great lakes region. The few south cushite left assimilated except one group of surviving south cushites in Tanzania called the Iraqw who live in a small Highlands region north of the country an maintain a population of less than 3~ million.


If the Cushitic tribes practiced widescale farming we could've taken all of Africa no joke. Like nomadic along with small population we snatched all of east coast. For much of our history we were the only pastoralists farmer peoples in Africa rest were hunter gatherer and sparse populated until bantu discovered farming. We had thousands years to take over all of Africa. If only...

 

[Scipio Africanus]

It’s all down to environment/geography.

You already answered your own question.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

The Cushitic race came about in the Nike valley of Sudan 10,000 years ago when natufian tribes crossing into Africa from the Levant migrated south from prehistoric Egypt and mixed with the Proto nilotic populations.

Wrong, we’re not mixed or related in any way to proto-Nilotics. I see this repeatedly a lot but it’s a bunch of bs

Natufians who are the ancestors of North African Berbers, Semetic middle east, and Cushtiic east africans. We're the first humans to leave the hunter gatherer lifestyle 12,000 years ago and adopt farming. They brought farming to places like Iraq and Egypt which became the cradle of civilization.

The interesting thing is, when the Cushtic people formed, we took on the Nomadic lifestyle of our Proto nilotic side rather than the farming natufians. Ofc many cushites farmed along the nile valley which is why we get the Nubian/Kush civilisation from. But largely we didn't do it. Cushites expanded all over east coast Africa from southeastern Egypt, to South Africa.

I’m pretty sure our African side weren’t pastoralists or nomads but huntergathers like Europeans before Indo-Europeans mixed with them

If the Cushitic tribes practiced widescale farming we could've taken all of Africa no joke. Like nomadic along with small population we snatched all of east coast. For much of our history we were the only pastoralists farmer peoples in Africa rest were hunter gatherer and sparse populated until bantu discovered farming. We had thousands years to take over all of Africa. If only...

There’s a reason why Horners didn’t expand into that free land to begin with. It just wasn’t useful for our merchant style ancestors, it’s resources only gained use in the modern era. Maybe we could’ve expanded into Madagascar and inland all the way to the Great Lakes but that’s as far I see us getting into Africa. I’d be more interested in if our ancestor’s could’ve been seafarering pioneers like the Austronesians and trying to colonize and build settlements in Southeast Asia like how they did Madagascar.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/austronesians-in-africa-the-%E2%80%9Csea-people%E2%80%9D-of-the-indian-ocean.156823/

 

[Scipio Africanus]

Wrong, we’re not mixed or related in any way to proto-Nilotics. I see this repeatedly a lot but it’s a bunch of bs

I’m pretty sure our African side weren’t pastoralists or nomads but huntergathers like Europeans before Indo-Europeans mixed with them

There’s a reason why Horners didn’t expand into that free land to begin with. It just wasn’t useful for our merchant style ancestors, it’s resources only gained use in the modern era. Maybe we could’ve expanded into Madagascar and inland all the way to the Great Lakes but that’s as far I see us getting into Africa. I’d be more interested in if our ancestor’s could’ve been seafarering pioneers like the Austronesians and trying to colonize and build settlements in Southeast Asia like how they did Madagascar.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/austronesians-in-africa-the-%E2%80%9Csea-people%E2%80%9D-of-the-indian-ocean.156823/

The Sub-Saharan dna is not from Proto-Nilotes who are the direct ancestors of modern nilotes, but from an older source/group of people.

The older source/group of people are called “Ancestral East Africans”, the modern group with highest amount AEA ancestry are the Dinkas with roughly ~70-80%.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

The Sub-Saharan dna is not from Proto-Nilotes who are the direct ancestors of modern nilotes, but from an older source/group of people.

The older source/group of people are called “Ancestral East Africans”, the modern group with highest amount AEA ancestry are Dinkas at roughly ~70-80%.

Where did this mixing happen? In Sudan or when we entered the Horn?

 

[Scipio Africanus]

Where did this mixing happen? In Sudan or when we entered the Horn?

Somewhere in Northern Sudan.

 

[Khaem]

Wrong, we’re not mixed or related in any way to proto-Nilotics. I see this repeatedly a lot but it’s a bunch of bs

I’m pretty sure our African side weren’t pastoralists or nomads but huntergathers like Europeans before Indo-Europeans mixed with them

There’s a reason why Horners didn’t expand into that free land to begin with. It just wasn’t useful for our merchant style ancestors, it’s resources only gained use in the modern era. Maybe we could’ve expanded into Madagascar and inland all the way to the Great Lakes but that’s as far I see us getting into Africa. I’d be more interested in if our ancestor’s could’ve been seafarering pioneers like the Austronesians and trying to colonize and build settlements in Southeast Asia like how they did Madagascar.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/austronesians-in-africa-the-%E2%80%9Csea-people%E2%80%9D-of-the-indian-ocean.156823/

Who told you we aren't descended from Proto nilotic? That doesn't mean we are descended from modern nilotes. Just that the tribes that would eventually merge to form modern nilotes are also the ancestors of Cushites.

Our ancestors were not hunter gatherers, if that was the case they would've been wiped out completely. Simple fact is when the agricultural revolution happened the farmers outnumbered the hunters to much they xooged them out of existence. Thousands of races are gone. The world is divided into a handful of language families descended from these farming communities. Including afro asiatics descended from farming Levantines. The Proto nilotes and modern nilotes distinctive feature is that they were pastoralists. Which we seemed to have picked up on.

Whilst I agree it probably wasn't useful to expand further. The farming bantus did. Simply because they had the population. So it would've been bound to happen for us. We already controlled the great lakes. In fact the bantus in Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda have varying levels of South Cushitic admixture.

This is a rough map of 1000bc

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Who told you we aren't descended from Proto nilotic? That doesn't mean we are descended from modern nilotes. Just that the tribes that would eventually merge to form modern nilotes are also the ancestors of Cushites.

It’s fact that we aren’t descended from proto-Nilotic.

Our ancestors were not hunter gatherers, if that was the case they would've been wiped out completely. Simple fact is when the agricultural revolution happened the farmers outnumbered the hunters to much they xooged them out of existence. Thousands of races are gone. The world is divided into a handful of language families descended from these farming communities. Including afro asiatics descended from farming Levantines. The Proto nilotes and modern nilotes distinctive feature is that they were pastoralists. Which we seemed to have picked up on.

Everyone was pastoralist before the Agricultural Revolution, we didn’t pick that up from proto-Nilotics.

Whilst I agree it probably wasn't useful to expand further. The farming bantus did. Simply because they had the population. So it would've been bound to happen for us. We already controlled the great lakes. In fact the bantus in Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda have varying levels of South Cushitic admixture.

This is a rough map of 1000bcView attachment 302219

That map is the max we probably would’ve went. Anywhere past the Great Lakes is useless until modern times.

 

[NidarNidar]

The Sub-Saharan dna is not from Proto-Nilotes who are the direct ancestors of modern nilotes, but from an older source/group of people.

The older source/group of people are called “Ancestral East Africans”, the modern group with highest amount AEA ancestry are the Dinkas with roughly ~70-80%.

Keep in mind the East African HG component in Natufians accounts for their E1B1B, The particular Y Haplogroup survived and was the dominant paternal haplogroup in the Natufians.

The Cushitic race came about in the Nike valley of Sudan 10,000 years ago when natufian tribes crossing into Africa from the Levant migrated south from prehistoric Egypt and mixed with the Proto nilotic populations.

Natufians who are the ancestors of North African Berbers, Semetic middle east, and Cushtiic east africans. We're the first humans to leave the hunter gatherer lifestyle 12,000 years ago and adopt farming. They brought farming to places like Iraq and Egypt which became the cradle of civilization.

The interesting thing is, when the Cushtic people formed, we took on the Nomadic lifestyle of our Proto nilotic side rather than the farming natufians. Ofc many cushites farmed along the nile valley which is why we get the Nubian/Kush civilisation from. But largely we didn't do it. Cushites expanded all over east coast Africa from southeastern Egypt, to South Africa.

But due to our nomadic life being heavily reliant on livestock. The tset tset fly brought disease which killed them some 1,500 years ago leading to famine and de population among south cushites. The farmer bantus who had recently expanded from Cameroon to all over the Congo jungle too advantage of this sparsely populated land and started leaving their jungles to farm in the great lakes region. The few south cushite left assimilated except one group of surviving south cushites in Tanzania called the Iraqw who live in a small Highlands region north of the country an maintain a population of less than 3~ million.


If the Cushitic tribes practiced widescale farming we could've taken all of Africa no joke. Like nomadic along with small population we snatched all of east coast. For much of our history we were the only pastoralists farmer peoples in Africa rest were hunter gatherer and sparse populated until bantu discovered farming. We had thousands years to take over all of Africa. If only...

Several factors could have been in play, the African humid period was about to end, and we probably traded with local farmers for what we needed, in or around the Nile.

The drying of the Sahara probably pushed us south for more land for our cattle to graze, competition with Nilotes and the formation of petty kingdoms around the Nile disrupted our grazing lands, early Cushites arrived in Kenya by 5,000 BC, earliest camel description was found in Laas Geel in North Somalia dated to 3,500 - 2,500 bce.

"The dromedary has not occurred naturally in the wild for nearly 2,000 years. It was probably first domesticated in the Arabian Peninsula about 4,000 years ago, or in Somalia where there are paintings in Laas Geel that figure it from 5,000 to 9,000 years ago. In the wild, the dromedary inhabited arid regions, including the Sahara Desert. The domesticated dromedary is generally found in the semi-arid to arid regions of the Old World, mainly in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula"

The domestication of the Camel set us apart from other Cushitic tribes and allowed us to take control of some of the largest and dryest landmass in Africa.

14,000 bc - 5,500 bc.

Look at the giant lakes in the middle of the Sahara.

One of the biggest reasons why some Natufians were pushed back into Africa was due to younger dryas, this hypothetical cause being asteroid or comet impact somewhere in the north Hemisphere.

The younger dryas occurred around 12,900 - 11,700 bce was a return to glacial conditions, a period for about 1,000 years.

source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_Neolithic

African humid period - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Late Natufian culture dynamics during the Younger Dryas event (Leore Grosman) | the Digital Archaeological Record

The Natufian culture coincided with the Terminal Pleistocene, a period of climatic unpredictability. In the Southern Levant the Late Natufian phase corresponds to the global Younger Dryas event and directly precedes the abrupt transition to early Neolithic entities at the beginning of the...

core.tdar.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

 

[Internet Nomad]

Ahh yes perfect land for farming.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Ahh yes perfect land for farming.
View attachment 302234

It actually looked far more better before pastoralists screwed it up. If we just dodged the arid areas and settled a lot more in the fertile south and North like the Nugaal valley or the Guban coasts (basically the northern coastline) we could’ve have better looking lands.

Image below: Guban plains in between Zeila and Berbera

Image below: Nugaal Valley

 

[Garaad Awal]

We are from the Eastern Desert not the Nile Valley.Also Pastoralism arised in NE Africa prior to the introduction of farming as seen in the Neolithic Levant.

You can’t farm the Red Sea Hills because it’s extremely arid

 

[Internet Nomad]

Somalia has an endless amount of underground reserve water so we could Make Somalia Green Again

It actually looked far more better before pastoralists screwed it up. If we just dodged the arid areas and settled a lot more in the fertile south and North like the Nugaal valley or the Guban coasts (basically the northern coastline) we could’ve have better looking lands.

Image below: Guban plains in between Zeila and Berbera
View attachment 302235
Image below: Nugaal Valley
View attachment 302236

 

[Garaad Awal]

Keep in mind the East African HG component in Natufians accounts for their E1B1B, The particular Y Haplogroup survived and was the dominant paternal haplogroup in the Natufians.

Several factors could have been in play, the African humid period was about to end, and we probably traded with local farmers for what we needed, in or around the Nile.

The drying of the Sahara probably pushed us south for more land for our cattle to graze, competition with Nilotes and the formation of petty kingdoms around the Nile disrupted our grazing lands, early Cushites arrived in Kenya by 5,000 BC, earliest camel description was found in Laas Geel in North Somalia dated to 3,500 - 2,500 bce.

"The dromedary has not occurred naturally in the wild for nearly 2,000 years. It was probably first domesticated in the Arabian Peninsula about 4,000 years ago, or in Somalia where there are paintings in Laas Geel that figure it from 5,000 to 9,000 years ago. In the wild, the dromedary inhabited arid regions, including the Sahara Desert. The domesticated dromedary is generally found in the semi-arid to arid regions of the Old World, mainly in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula"

The domestication of the Camel set us apart from other Cushitic tribes and allowed us to take control of some of the largest and dryest landmass in Africa.

View attachment 302222

14,000 bc - 5,500 bc.
View attachment 302223
Look at the giant lakes in the middle of the Sahara.

One of the biggest reasons why some Natufians were pushed back into Africa was due to younger dryas, this hypothetical cause being asteroid or comet impact somewhere in the north Hemisphere.

The younger dryas occurred around 12,900 - 11,700 bce was a return to glacial conditions, a period for about 1,000 years.

View attachment 302225
source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoral_Neolithic

African humid period - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Late Natufian culture dynamics during the Younger Dryas event (Leore Grosman) | the Digital Archaeological Record

The Natufian culture coincided with the Terminal Pleistocene, a period of climatic unpredictability. In the Southern Levant the Late Natufian phase corresponds to the global Younger Dryas event and directly precedes the abrupt transition to early Neolithic entities at the beginning of the...

core.tdar.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

Yet the oldest E-M78 samples are found in Morocco in the Paleolithic & Early Neolithic.E-M35 is tied to Paleolithic North Africans not the Horner HGs. Mota wasn’t even E-M35 either….

 

[NidarNidar]

Yet the oldest E-M78 samples are found in Morocco in the Paleolithic & Early Neolithic.E-M35 is tied to Paleolithic North Africans not the Horner HGs. Mota wasn’t even E-M35 either….

So E1b1b found in the horn being descendent from Iberomaurusian was males real.

 

[The alchemist]

The way you pulled this kind of "alternative history" ignorant ass, fabricated shit is incredible. Being this ignorant is a skill. Seriously... nearly wrong on every single claim. An amazing feat.

The way you confidently plastered your asswipe takes on this thread deserves a round of applause.

 

[Khaem]

The way you pulled this kind of "alternative history" ignorant ass, fabricated shit is incredible. Being this ignorant is a skill. Seriously... nearly wrong on every single claim. An amazing feat.

The way you confidently plastered your asswipe takes on this thread deserves a round of applause.

Then write a counterpoint dumb nigga

 

[The alchemist]

Then write a counterpoint dumb nigga

Listen, you dumb dweeb. Who told you anything you wrote on that thread? I want to know what kind of retarded taught you that information. Let's start from there.

Everything I write in this section is substantiated and you can quote every single post I make and I will show you how my takes are justified. Now you are the one who made a thread spreading unfounded claims. Show some credibility. I am certain I quoted you on the proto-Nilotic take and you still peddle it. I don't know what is wrong with your head but you never learn which is kind of pathetic on its own but you're being an inconvenience by spreading misinformation.

1) You made claims about Natufians migrating in the early Neolithic (a strictly late Levantine Paleolithic group, mind you) into North Africa being our ancestors with farming technology that Natufians never had. The genetic profile of Levantines 10,000 years ago was never Natufian but pre-pottery Neolithic because of Anatolian-like enrichment. But a genius like you somehow never knew this rudimentary information? Or do you have knowledge about samples that are different from what we have sourced from studies?

2) There is absolutely no archeological evidence or genetic evidence that Natufians existed in North Africa... Natufian-like DNA existed in northeast Africa way before Natufian was a thing because there was a fucking back migration into Africa by a southwest Asian genetic source before 20,000 years ago and this component mixed with African ANA which shows Natufian. Natufian is more likely a Northeast African majority-sourced population than other way around you.

But a genius like you has no idea because he ignores information and cannot even read the research.

3) The farming takes is just insulting. People like @Shimbiris have written illuminatingly how Cushites from its inception were "AGRO-pastoralists." It means, that whenever people could subsist on agrarian subsistence, they did, or they had a mixed economy that is synonymous with the carrying capacity of the land - farming, herding animals, doing trading (all this since the times Cushites were in the Nile Valley). That's why you see Cushites actually do that. The same with the Nubian lands since the Neolithic.

I have also written a lot on this matter. That this meme about reductionist "nomadism" is just pure ignorant fabrication and it tells you how people don't know shit about the subject they talk about.

There is no limit to your stupidity. The only reason I give you this treatment is because you have no excuse. We've told you this time and time again and you have spent too much time here to ignore what people tell you. If you were simply some new guy on the scene, then no one would have an issue with informing them. You are past that point as nothing registers in your brain.

 

[Step a side]

Listen, you dumb dweeb. Who told you anything you wrote on that thread? I want to know what kind of retarded taught you that information. Let's start from there.

Everything I write in this section is substantiated and you can quote every single post I make and I will show you how my takes are justified. Now you are the one who made a thread spreading unfounded claims. Show some credibility. I am certain I quoted you on the proto-Nilotic take and you still peddle it. I don't know what is wrong with your head but you never learn which is kind of pathetic on its own but you're being an inconvenience by spreading misinformation.

1) You made claims about Natufians migrating in the early Neolithic (a strictly late Levantine Paleolithic group, mind you) into North Africa being our ancestors with farming technology that Natufians never had. The genetic profile of Levantines 10,000 years ago was never Natufian but pre-pottery Neolithic because of Anatolian-like enrichment. But a genius like you somehow never knew this rudimentary information? Or do you have knowledge about samples that are different from what we have sourced from studies?

2) There is absolutely no archeological evidence or genetic evidence that Natufians existed in North Africa... Natufian-like DNA existed in northeast Africa way before Natufian was a thing because there was a fucking back migration into Africa by a southwest Asian genetic source before 20,000 years ago and this component mixed with African ANA which shows Natufian. Natufian is more likely a Northeast African majority-sourced population than other way around you.

But a genius like you has no idea because he ignores information and cannot even read the research.

3) The farming takes is just insulting. People like @Shimbiris have written illuminatingly how Cushites from its inception were "AGRO-pastoralists." It means, that whenever people could subsist on agrarian subsistence, they did, or they had a mixed economy that is synonymous with the carrying capacity of the land - farming, herding animals, doing trading (all this since the times Cushites were in the Nile Valley). That's why you see Cushites actually do that. The same with the Nubian lands since the Neolithic.

I have also written a lot on this matter. That this meme about reductionist "nomadism" is just pure ignorant fabrication and it tells you how people don't know shit about the subject they talk about.

There is no limit to your stupidity. The only reason I give you this treatment is because you have no excuse. We've told you this time and time again and you have spent too much time here to ignore what people tell you. If you were simply some new guy on the scene, then no one would have an issue with informing them. You are past that point as nothing registers in your brain.

Why do Somalis claim we have Anatolian Barcin enriched Neolithic Levantine ancestry when our West Euroasian is strictly Mesolithic Natufian like. I do know that Natufians are 14%~ ANA and the rest similar to Dzudzuana and similar to Anatolian hunter gatherers but to say we have Levant Neolithic confuses me.

 

[El Nino]

Africa before crops from western hemisphere, modern technology and healthcare had a miniscule population.

Kenya for example had a population of 1.7 million people in 1900, Tanzania was 3.7-4 million in the same time period.

Tanzania is almost 1 million square kilometres in landmass for context. Almost 2/3 of Kenya is arid.

The environment in Africa is one of the harshest, if not the harshest. Its all due to the harsh land that the population was small.