Why Can't I Find Any Pre-Somalia Hawiye History?

[DR OSMAN]

I am trying to find out about Hawadle history and gee I don't know where to start, it is my style to always study a clan by giving them the benefit of the doubt and delving into their pre-history before Somalia to gouge if they were either better off then or they are new found people in the 1960's oo dhar loo xiray. If I find out their from the 1960's new found people, I slam them with the fact 'ana ibnul adam ka dhigay' thru the SYL. SYL was basically the new hobyo sultanate that was extended to southern somalia under a political party founded by yasin ali sharmarke a descendant of keenadiid. So Keenadiid children basically re-created the hobyo sultanate dynasty to include all the south rather then just HG.

The only one Hawiye clan with a remote pre-history that is verifiable from outside Somali records is Habar gedir and they are spoken of as subjects of Hobyo sultanate. I never see any hawiye spotter or even back in som-net days give us records of hawiye pre history before the founding of Somalia. Even Isaaq FKD heavyweights on somnet used to provide information on their pre-history prior to Somalia, the only clan who never did was hawiye. They only talked about 1960-69 and that was abgaal mainly boasting about adan adde and HG wud boast about Abdillahi Issa, all recent history and all history that reports itself back to the SYL which literally was a continuation of the hobyo sultanate under a 'party' system.

Come on Hawiye, what is wrong with you guys? even hadi la rabo in lagu cayo wax lagu cayo hawiye ma taalo, it's just a huge BLANK before Somalis found u

 

[Sabu]

History is just the study of the past , so as long as anything exists it has history.

 

[Yonis]

They are so desperate now they're claiming the history of Ajurans are their own, how embarrassing, abgals and habar gidir in particular should be ashamed

 

[DR OSMAN]

They are so desperate now they're claiming the history of Ajurans are their own, how embarrassing, abgals and habar gidir in particular should be ashamed

The Hawiye are mentioned to in futuh al habash, but then after that it is 'nil' it's like they were in the trees or something from 1600 till 1960. It's critical for hawiyes to present what the f*ck were they doing for 360 years before the founding of Somalia or i'll assume the worst, u weren't doing anything but climbing trees

 

[bako]

Pre-Somalis were Hamitic, even Punt was Hamitic for the Cacs, they have a whole forum dedicated for that, kkk.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Pre-Somalis were Hamitic, even Punt was Hamitic for the Cacs, they have a whole forum dedicated for that, kkk.

I mean pre-somalia(1960), there was no Somalia prior to that as futuh al habash makes it clear, we had different 'emirs' hence were similar to the gulf nations, plus colonial history makes this matter clear because they founded Somalia not Somalis, I was a Majerteni Citizen under Majertenia Sultanates while u were a Hawiye citizen under Hobyo Sultanate.

 

[Crow]

They are so desperate now they're claiming the history of Ajurans are their own, how embarrassing, abgals and habar gidir in particular should be ashamed

Are they now? So they finally realized the bad optics in bragging about how they were the ones who destroyed the Ajuuran Sultanate?

 

[Mckenzie]

The Darod name cannot be found in any document before 1820 and you want to come for a clan that has been in recorded history 700 years before that

 

[DR OSMAN]

The Darod name cannot be found in any document before 1820 and you want to come for a clan that has been in recorded history 700 years before that

Ana dhar ku xiray when I found you like this

He Came, He Saw, He Clothed

 

[Mckenzie]

Ana dhar ku xiray when I found you like this

You sure those aren't one of your 10K Bantu cousins

He Came, He Saw, He Clothed

Sorry i think those clothes belong in a Zara giftshop in Italy

@DR OSMAN are you ready to talk about HG saving Bah Dubays from the wrath of Xirsi Boqor? We know you didn't defend your boqortooyo and it took HG to recover your livestock in Nugaal, maybe that's why you overcompensate as a Puntlander

Are they now? So they finally realized the bad optics in bragging about how they were the ones who destroyed the Ajuuran Sultanate?

It's not bragging if it's true. This is known history, this was intra clan warfare and we came out victorious. How else did Hiraab inherit the Imam title? Ajuran traditions also agree so it's not biased.

Mi sono fatto raccontare da Hairi Omar Muddri Agiuran. uno Scech allora ottantenne piuttosto colto e intelligente, la leggenda della guerra tra Agiuran e Hirab com'è pervenuta nei racconti delle varie generazioni. Tutta la penisola somala fino a Mombasa si trovava un tempo sotto il dominio degli Agiuran. Potentissima cabila del clano Hawia seconda genitura di Samali.

I let Hairi Omar Muddri Agiuran tell me about it. A rather cultured and intelligent Scech in his eighties, the legend of the war between Agiuran and Hirab as it has come down in the stories of the various generations. The entire Somali peninsula up to Mombasa was once under the rule of the Agiuran. Powerful kabyle of the Hawia clan second generation of Samali.

SOURCE Somalia d'oggi, Volumes 1-2

Ofcourse we will give our Ajuran brothers great credit, they brought deen to the ppl of Ogadenia

 

[DR OSMAN]

You sure those aren't one of your 10K Bantu cousins



Sorry i think those clothes belong in a Zara giftshop in Italy

View attachment 140593

@DR OSMAN are you ready to talk about HG saving Bah Dubays from the wrath of Xirsi Boqor? We know you didn't defend your boqortooyo and it took HG to recover your livestock in Nugaal, maybe that's why you overcompensate as a Puntlander



It's not bragging if it's true. This is known history, this was intra clan warfare and we came out victorious. How else did Hiraab inherit the Imam title? Ajuran traditions also agree so it's not biased.





SOURCE Somalia d'oggi, Volumes 1-2

Ofcourse we will give our Ajuran brothers great credit, they brought deen to the ppl of Ogadenia

View attachment 140600

@Teeri-Alpha is gonna have to answer for this, PAGANS baad ahayden kkkkk and Ajuran taught u the deen. In-fact Majerten were on missionaries into HG territories

My theory stands anything below -gaalkacyo used to be the territory of gaalo madow territory, after the defeat of gaalo madow from gaalkacyo which was the border between somalis and galla, I believe Somalization began on all those clans, the other evidence I have is the non somali cultures u see down south shows they still hold onto gaalo madow traditions still and haven't been fully somalized.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Mckenzie I don't see any historical record for Ajuuran even though Somalis swear by it like they swear by 'caraweelo' existance. I am not saying it didn't exist but if it did exist, surely futuh al habash would've mentioned this majestic sultanates, but no we see no mention of ajuuran clan let alone any sultanates. And according to Ajuuranist believers, they say the height of their sultanates was in the 15th-16th century which is the exact time period of the futuh al habash. The only kingdom to have existed in the 15th-16th century is ADAL up north which is PROVEN and without a shadow of doubt because it's documented.

Maybe if u have any historical records about Ajuuran, please show me.

 

[Mckenzie]

@Teeri-Alpha is gonna have to answer for this, PAGANS baad ahayden kkkkk and Ajuran taught u the deen. In-fact Majerten were on missionaries into HG territories

My theory stands anything below -gaalkacyo used to be the territory of gaalo madow territory, after the defeat of gaalo madow from gaalkacyo which was the border between somalis and galla, I believe Somalization began on all those clans, the other evidence I have is the non somali cultures u see down south shows they still hold onto gaalo madow traditions still and haven't been fully somalized.

That picture is also not of Xaaji Cali MJ. That was a photograph taken by Englishmen in Ethiopia in the last century.

I don't understand the rest of your post, what gaalo madow culture are you talking about?

@Mckenzie I don't see any historical record for Ajuuran even though Somalis swear by it like they swear by 'caraweelo' existance. I am not saying it didn't exist but if it did exist, surely futuh al habash would've mentioned this majestic sultanates, but no we see no mention of ajuuran clan let alone any sultanates. And according to Ajuuranist believers, they say the height of their sultanates was in the 15th-16th century which is the exact time period of the futuh al habash. The only kingdom to have existed in the 15th-16th century is ADAL up north which is PROVEN and without a shadow of doubt because it's documented.

Maybe if u have any historical records about Ajuuran, please show me.

Fatxul Xabash doesn't mention Mogadishu, does that mean Mogadishu didn't exist?

Ajuran existed just like Adal, Shoa, Bale, Ifat etc and the countless other medieval sultanates. I had a seperate thread on the medieval maps that show these places in the culture & history section.

Ofcourse they were a shadow of their former selves when the Colonialists arrived, but i am sure you have heard of Olol Diinle, waa niman culus.

 

[Marshall D Abdi]

That picture is also not of Xaaji Cali MJ. That was a photograph taken by Englishmen in Ethiopia in the last century.

View attachment 140601

I don't understand the rest of your post, what gaalo madow culture are you talking about?



Fatxul Xabash doesn't mention Mogadishu, does that mean Mogadishu didn't exist?

Ajuran existed just like Adal, Shoa, Bale, Ifat etc and the countless other medieval sultanates. I had a seperate thread on the medieval maps that show these places in the culture & history section.

Ofcourse they were a shadow of their former selves when the Colonialists arrived, but i am sure you have heard of Olol Diinle, waa niman culus.

Wait is shoa and bale somali ones?

 

[Mckenzie]

Wait is shoa and bale somali ones?

Bale was founded by a Somali from the South but it was overrun and Oromised at some point. I'm planning a thread on this and wanted some input from any Oromos in the forum, @Abba Sadacha is the only user but i don't know if he's active.

 

[FBIsomalia]

@Crow , let us make hobyo great again .

 

[Crow]

It's not bragging if it's true. This is known history, this was intra clan warfare and we came out victorious. How else did Hiraab inherit the Imam title? Ajuran traditions also agree so it's not biased.

You missed my point. I know that it's true. I'm saying that Hawiye history in Somalia is a history of destroying civilizations: first the Ajuuran then Somalia itself.

 

[Removed]

You sure those aren't one of your 10K Bantu cousins



Sorry i think those clothes belong in a Zara giftshop in Italy

View attachment 140593

@DR OSMAN are you ready to talk about HG saving Bah Dubays from the wrath of Xirsi Boqor? We know you didn't defend your boqortooyo and it took HG to recover your livestock in Nugaal, maybe that's why you overcompensate as a Puntlander



It's not bragging if it's true. This is known history, this was intra clan warfare and we came out victorious. How else did Hiraab inherit the Imam title? Ajuran traditions also agree so it's not biased.





SOURCE Somalia d'oggi, Volumes 1-2

Ofcourse we will give our Ajuran brothers great credit, they brought deen to the ppl of Ogadenia

View attachment 140600

That is a tradition Ajuurans have a sort of myth status amongst Somalis I have family from the north who talk about how Ajuuraan ruled everything until everyone rebelled when in reality the furthest they ever got was on the Shabelle probably around qalafe. I don’t believe Ogadens even settled there before a few hundred years ago as they were still somewhat shadowed by the Jidwaq.

In any case im curious how the Ajuran who themselves had shaky religous identity spread anything if anything we saved them after you assimilated them into the Borana GaaloMadow for centuries

Ajuraans were my Mocalins when I was young there is nothing you can show me to convince me they are Hawiye. They had a deep hate for “Hawiye” and were reduced to Madhiban type of status by everyone but Darood and Isaaqs who were fascinated by them. This is the real tradition of Ajuuraan.

 

[Mckenzie]

You missed my point. I know that it's true. I'm saying that Hawiye history in Somalia is a history of destroying civilizations: first the Ajuuran then Somalia itself.

They got what was coming

That is a tradition Ajuurans have a sort of myth status amongst Somalis I have family from the north who talk about how Ajuuraan ruled everything until everyone rebelled when in reality the furthest they ever got was on the Shabelle probably around qalafe. I don’t believe Ogadens even settled there before a few hundred years ago as they were still somewhat shadowed by the Jidwaq.

In any case im curious how the Ajuran who themselves had shaky religous identity spread anything if anything we saved them after you assimilated them into the Borana GaaloMadow for centuries
View attachment 140617
Ajuraans were my Mocalins when I was young there is nothing you can show me to convince me they are Hawiye. They had a deep hate for “Hawiye” and were reduced to Madhiban type of status by everyone but Darood and Isaaqs who were fascinated by them. This is the real tradition of Ajuuraan.
View attachment 140618

They are an example to Somalis to show what happens when you get too big for your boots.

Shiiqaal historian and ex General Liiqliiqato bursts that myth

They probably reigned for about 200 years. They did keep foreigners out but the War was political.

This is from a post from the official Ajuran community. They acknowledge that civil war between two lafs, Jambeelle vs Gorgaarte. Xasan Dahir Aweys' forefather was said to have made the call to defend the Ajuran state.

 

[Warwaaqsame]

Reer mataan alone has more history, than your entire desert shithole.
Wuxu faan badanaa ma dhoocil aroos ah baa