Why are we screaming about Europe and America being biased and bigoted when we are worse?

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

Before you post a hate comment under, let me reason with you logically! We, the Muslim ummah, are the most intolerant people in the world. We believe however much our countries continue their persecution of minorities and intolerance of reform, our side of the world shouldn't be held to account; but we do the opposite for the west. Muslim refugees including us Somalis would rather live in "bantu" Kenya instead of these stable "Muslim" countries because we know how intolerant they are in terms of business and every aspect of living. We don't blame ourselves when most of us still believe a Christian can't build a church in a Muslim country, the stoning of humans, the cutting of limbs, and the honor killing of those who choose to leave Islam. If the Christian west held views that even resembled this, we would be nuked into oblivion. I most certainly believe if we switch the nukes from western countries to the Muslim world, we would've exterminated the earth.

Our youth need to be taught to love, not to hate other religious, groups, and sects. It's better we teach them our similarities in which we can come to common terms like the Quran says in Surat Nisa 1,400 years ago. We must understand that every Quranic verse just like the old testament(Torah) had a time and a place for the ruling and we must learn that in the world of science and technology, the knowledge of the abrogated verses and non-abrogated verses to make Fiq rulings. Our religion wasn't sent to be a fascist cult, but rather a spiritual connection from man to God. It is only the Idiot that uses the Quran and Islamic history as a means to subjugate and persecute minorities like ISIS, and Al Qaeda. Lets not fall into the trap they planted on us.

 

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

2. So what if fucking Poland wants a Cadaan Christian over an Idiot theocratic Neo-Sharia mongering Islamist that will start a speaker corner 2.0 and say there laws suck and everyone should adopt his interpretation of sharia. LOL.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

You should read Mustafa Akyol's book on Reopening Muslim minds.The Ash'ari and their more intolerable close-minded Salafi children are the reason why the Muslim Ummah lost it's morality and sense of justice.They care more about outward piousness and religious rites then being actual moral people which the Qur'an tells us to be.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Before you post a hate comment under, let me reason with you logically! We, the Muslim ummah, are the most intolerant people in the world. We believe however much our countries continue their persecution of minorities and intolerance of reform, our side of the world shouldn't be held to account; but we do the opposite for the west. Muslim refugees including us Somalis would rather live in "bantu" Kenya instead of these stable "Muslim" countries because we know how intolerant they are in terms of business and every aspect of living. We don't blame ourselves when most of us still believe a Christian can't build a church in a Muslim country, the stoning of humans, the cutting of limbs, and the honor killing of those who choose to leave Islam. If the Christian west held views that even resembled this, we would be nuked into oblivion. I most certainly believe if we switch the nukes from western countries to the Muslim world, we would've exterminated the earth.

Our youth need to be taught to love, not to hate other religious, groups, and sects. It's better we teach them our similarities in which we can come to common terms like the Quran says in Surat Nisa 1,400 years ago. We must understand that every Quranic verse just like the old testament(Torah) had a time and a place for the ruling and we must learn that in the world of science and technology, the knowledge of the abrogated verses and non-abrogated verses to make Fiq rulings. Our religion wasn't sent to be a fascist cult, but rather a spiritual connection from man to God. It is only the Idiot that uses the Quran and Islamic history as a means to subjugate and persecute minorities like ISIS, and Al Qaeda. Lets not fall into the trap they planted on us.

2. So what if fucking Poland wants a Cadaan Christian over an Idiot theocratic Neo-Sharia mongering Islamist that will start a speaker corner 2.0 and say there laws suck and everyone should adopt his interpretation of sharia. LOL.

What is neo-sharia? If you do not believe in sharia, you are a kaffir.



Also, if you don't believe in amputating the hand of the thief you are kaffir and if you don't believe in stoning then I think this is kufr as well.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You should read Mustafa Akyol's book on Reopening Muslim minds.The Ash'ari and their more intolerable close-minded Salafi children are the reason why the Muslim Ummah lost it's morality and sense of justice.They care more about outward piousness and religious rites then being actual moral people which the Qur'an tells us to be.

If you abandon salaat, you are a kaffir. The five pillars of Islam are rites. The rites are extremely important.

Al-Ma'mun was the caliph who persecuted Imam Hanbal for refusing to say the Quran was created so it's no surprise you'd push wrong views.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

If you abandon salaat, you are a kaffir. The five pillars of Islam are rites. The rites are extremely important.

Al-Ma'mun was the caliph who persecuted Imam Hanbal for refusing to say the Quran was created so it's no surprise you'd push wrong views.

The Muʿtazila, whose forerunners were persecuted under the Umayyads, found first freedom under the Abbasids, then even endorsement. The latter crystalized under the rule of Caliph alMa’mun (r. 813–833), who is one of the most interesting political figures in Islamic history—a kind of enlightened despot, who was eager to pursue knowledge, from the meaning of Egyptian hieroglyphs to the exact size of the earth.He embraced the Muʿtazila doctrine of the created Qur’an, and while that in itself would have been fine, he also imposed it. He initiated mihna—which means “trial” but is also dubbed as “inquisition”—to force all scholars to accept that the Qur’an is created. This authoritarian policy would prove disastrous and would only help delegitimize the Muʿtazila, although they probably weren’t directly responsible.


Meanwhile, the same al-Ma’mun supported another institution, a better one: Bayt al-Hikma, or “House of Wisdom,” which was originally founded by his father, Caliph Harun al-Rashid. Established in Baghdad—the new, slick, and splendid Abbasid capital whose circular design was a tribute to geometric teachings of Euclid—this was an institute devoted to studying ulum al-awa’il, or “sciences of the ancients.” Thanks to a diverse team of experts, including many Christians, Greek classics that were lost in Europe but preserved in Eastern churches were translated into Arabic. These included the works of mathematicians like Pythagoras and Euclid, physicians like Hippocrates and Galen, thinkers like Plato and Plotinus, and most important, Aristotle, who is widely considered the father of Western philosophy.

 

[Shimbiris]

You should read Mustafa Akyol's book on Reopening Muslim minds.The Ash'ari and their more intolerable close-minded Salafi children are the reason why the Muslim Ummah lost it's morality and sense of justice.They care more about outward piousness and religious rites then being actual moral people which the Qur'an tells us to be.

I've noticed this about Salafis. They seem awfully obsessed with treating religion like a point system game. Observe the rules like praying 5 times a day, dress-code and so on but they are otherwise horrendous people with no heart or real imaan.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

In Islam, on any issue, the primary source is the Qur’an, the Book of God. So the rift between the divine command theory and ethical objectivism must be judged by the Qur’an as well. And, at first, a simple clarification must be made: the very fact that the Qur’an includes divine commandments does not mean that it supports the divine command theory. This is a wrong assumption that both Muslims and non-Muslims can unconsciously make.

The late Fazlur Rahman (d. 1988), one of the key pioneers of modernist Islamic thought, had criticized this assumption when he noted: There is a fairly common view among modern scholars, according to which this uncompromisingly transcendentalist picture of God, entailing a denial of trust in natural properties … and freedom of the human will, is to be based squarely on the Qur’an or is, at least, the most logical development of its teaching. This judgment, examined in the light of the Qur’an itself, seems considerably less than a halftruth.

Finding divine command theory in the Qur’an would be indeed “less than a half-truth,” arguably even less, because the Qur’an itself often presents divine commandments with intelligible reasons. It bans “strong drink and games of chance,” because they would “cast among you enmity and hatred.” It bans “the flesh of swine,” because “that surely is unclean.”Or while commanding Muslims not to insult pagan gods, it says, “Revile not those unto whom they pray beside God, lest they wrongfully revile God through ignorance."

Moreover, in many verses, the Qur’an commands Muslims to do adl (justice) or khayr (goodness), or to refrain from dhulm (transgression) or sharr (evil), without further explaining what such ethical concepts entail. In the words of contemporary Islamic scholar Khaled Abou El Fadl, this means “the Qur’an presumes that its reader has a degree of moral sense.” The Qur’an also describes itself as a “reminder,” reminding people “of the truth and values that should be innately known to them


Another key concept in the Qur’an which seems to support ethical objectivism is ma’ruf. In dozens of verses, Muslims are called upon to “do the ma’ruf,” which is often translated as “doing good.” Yet the exact meaning of the term is not “good” but “known.” From this, A. Kevin Reinhart, a contemporary scholar on Islam, in an impressive linguistic and scriptural study of the term, infers an important conclusion: “The Qur’an assumes that some part of the good enjoined by the Qur’an is known without revelational stipulation.”

There is, in fact, wisdom in the Qur’an’s repeated use of “unspecified terms for good,” for it is “a goad to ethical reflection and the open-textured search for ethical knowledge.”Unfortunately, Reinhart adds, the Islamic tradition gave very little attention to this open-ended sense of the ma’ruf. In commentaries of the Qur’an, it remained “a plain-Jane word that seems to compel little interest.”

In Islamic jurisprudence, it was reflected only by recognizing the 3urf—a term that comes from the same root of “knowing” but which implies only local customs and traditions of societies. However, “known” could be much more than that, opening a door to all kinds of human knowledge.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

I've noticed this about Salafis. They seem awfully obsessed with treating religion like a point system game. Observe the rules like praying 5 times a day, dress-code and so on but they are otherwise horrendous people with no heart or real imaan.

Hanbalism (Salafism originates from here) and Ashʿarism are stricter and milder versions of “fideism.”The latter term, which comes from the Latin word fides, or “faith,” literally means faith-ism. “Faith does not stand in need of rational justification,” it holds; “faith is rather the arbiter of reason and its pretensions

This notion of a soldierlike obedience to religious texts reflects the mainstream religious mindset in broad parts of the Muslim world today. Conservative scholars emphatically advocate it, saying, “We hear and we obey, whether we understand or not.For them, this is the true expression of Muslim piety.

 

[Shimbiris]

Hanbalism (Salafism originates from here) and Ashʿarism are stricter and milder versions of “fideism.”The latter term, which comes from the Latin word fides, or “faith,” literally means faith-ism. “Faith does not stand in need of rational justification,” it holds; “faith is rather the arbiter of reason and its pretensions

This notion of a soldierlike obedience to religious texts reflects the mainstream religious mindset in broad parts of the Muslim world today. Conservative scholars emphatically advocate it, saying, “We hear and we obey, whether we understand or not.For them, this is the true expression of Muslim piety.

I've seen eedos and abowes who are honestly not very nice people at all or kind to others get on me about things as minute as the position of my feet when I pray. I was dumbstruck, wallahi. I'm going to go to hell because one of my feet was too leftward or something. They've lost the script.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I've noticed this about Salafis. They seem awfully obsessed with treating religion like a point system game. Observe the rules like praying 5 times a day, dress-code and so on but they are otherwise horrendous people with no heart or real imaan.

sxb the guy you're discussing with is most definitely a dodgy guy, his username should tell you all you need to know let alone his advocacy for progressive deviants like mustafa akyol & co.

 

[Halimo-2018]

Let me just say i understand why poland dont want us. We are arrogant and ignorant we judge and push out way of life on others. The best thing about us is islam however we do not represent it very well.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

sxb the guy you're discussing with is most definitely a dodgy guy, his username should tell you all you need to know let alone his advocacy for progressive deviants like mustafa akyol & co.

I'm dodgy because you don't agree with me? What's next? Making takfir like your brother @Omar del Sur and advocating to behead me?

 

[Omar del Sur]

I'm dodgy because you don't agree with me? What's next? Making takfir like your brother @Omar del Sur and advocating to behead me?

I didn't say that you are a kaffir. I said the one who believes in secularism is a kaffir. Are you a believer in secularism?

 

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

What is neo-sharia? If you do not believe in sharia, you are a kaffir.



Also, if you don't believe in amputating the hand of the thief you are kaffir and if you don't believe in stoning then I think this is kufr as well.

I'm not a kafir but what if I was. An idiot like you just resorts to calling names an parroting versus with zero context on why and where they were revealed. Go drink camel urine instead of going to a doctor that uses vaccines and other medicines they tested on other organisms because of evolution and natural selection. Medicine is logical, rational, and research based just like secularism. I wonder if you would consider Medicine bidah...

 

[Omar del Sur]

I wonder if you would consider Medicine bidah...

medicine and cars are not bid'ah. bid'ah is things like mawlid.

 

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

I didn't say that you are a kaffir. I said the one who believes in secularism is a kaffir. Are you a believer in secularism?

We all believe in Secularism; including you're delusional self who is on a secular run internet typing from a secular country in which you want your liberal secular rights respected instead of another religion being imposed on you by the majority. America is superior intellectually, technologically, and scientifically than many historically Muslim Sharia states that represented the deen according to you which makes the deen seem inferior but if you acknowledge that our religion is not represented by a "holy" caliphate state centuries ago, and that it is represented by the collective society and Ummah as a whole, you'd understand that we need to catch up with the rest of the world instead of begging them and spiting on the hand that feeds you.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Medicine is logical, rational, and research based just like secularism.

how does logic, reason and research prove secularism is the right system?

 

[Omar del Sur]

We all believe in Secularism; including you're delusional self who is on a secular run internet typing from a secular country in which you want your liberal secular rights respected instead of another religion being imposed on you by the majority. America is superior intellectually, technologically, and scientifically than many historically Muslim Sharia states that represented the deen according to you which makes the deen seem inferior but if you acknowledge that our religion is not represented by a "holy" caliphate state centuries ago, and that it is represented by the collective society and Ummah as a whole, you'd understand that we need to catch up with the rest of the world instead of begging them and spiting on the hand that feeds you.

Yes, I believe in sharia and I also believe in using technology. I don't know of anything in Quran or Sunnah that bans technology. Maybe you have me mistaken for the Amish?

 

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

how does logic, reason and research prove secularism is the right system?

It does because secularism is based upon humanism and human logic. It's based upon research and what has helped humans in the past. Any state that takes a side of a sect or any religion will always fall when a new sect or interpretation becomes the norm.