Why are Somalis so opposed to riba in banking?

[Farax-ilig-fargeto]

Better to be poor in this dunya then losers in the next

 

[Apollo]

Taking a loan makes you poorer than someone that owes nothing, basic math and it’s a system designed to make the rich richer and the poor stay poor

LMAO, wrong.

Most companies take on huge loans in order to expand their business. The entire private sector (companies) rely on loans.

Amazon wasn't profitable for over 20 years. They kept on taking loans to expand their business.

 

[Periplus]

Riba is considered accepted when it is a necessity, such as student loans.

According to many sheikhs, you can use Riba to buy your first house if it means your kids grow up in a good neighbourhood.

Nearly every other Muslim community understands that mortgage is another example of using riba as a necessity.

Also, so many people on this thread are saying riba is haram but put their money in banks that profit from riba and give them interest for using their services. Yet when someone wants to place a mortgage for their family's sake, they bring out the Quran.

Shake my damn f*cking head.

 

[Apollo]

Riba is considered accepted when it is a necessity, such as student loans.

Student loans tend to have very low interest rates. That is not usury (exorbitant). It is inflation and risk protection.

Fiat currencies (currencies that can be printed by governments) force banks to ask for interest rates to protect themselves from inflation and also cover the risk from defaults + operational costs.

Only if gold was the global currency could you say that interest rates are haram, but not with fiat that can be printed out of thin air.

 

[Periplus]

Student loans tend to have very low interest rates. That is not usury (exorbitant). It is inflation and risk protection.

Fiat currencies (currencies that can be printed by governments) force banks to ask for interest rates to protect themselves from inflation and also cover the risk from defaults + operational costs.

Only if gold was the global currency could you say that interest rates are haram, but not with fiat.

My point is that from the Islamic perspective, student loans are permissible because it is for education which is a necessity in Islam.

My other argument is that having a house is also a necessity. If someone chooses to live in a council house to avoid a mortgage they can afford, then they are willingly putting their kids in danger. If their kids turn out to be gangsters, the dembi is on them.

 

[Periplus]

This argument about Riba is why Somalis are intellectually deficient when it comes to Islam.

They parrot verses and hadith but are unwilling to read or engage in intellectual discourse/debates on religious topics.

 

[Apollo]

My point is that from the Islamic perspective, student loans are permissible because it is for education which is a necessity in Islam.

My other argument is that having a house is also a necessity. If someone chooses to live in a council house to avoid a mortgage they can afford, then they are willingly putting their kids in danger. If their kids turn out to be gangsters, the dembi is on them.

It is kind of stupid if you ask me. Banks cannot give out interest free loans to people under a fiat system where inflation is present (mind you in Islamic countries, inflation is often much higher than in the West). It would bankrupt banks and collapse the economy.

This irrational fear of interest rates is terrible for economic growth and could partially explain why non-petrostate Muslim countries tend to be so poor.

PS. Check out the value of the Turkish Lira or the Lebanese currency against Western currencies, imagine loaning that out without interest, makes 0 sense.

 

[Sheikh Google]

My point is that from the Islamic perspective, student loans are permissible because it is for education which is a necessity in Islam.

My other argument is that having a house is also a necessity. If someone chooses to live in a council house to avoid a mortgage they can afford, then they are willingly putting their kids in danger. If their kids turn out to be gangsters, the dembi is on them.

Couldn't someone argue that it is still a loophole as another person could back up their argument by simply saying Riba is Riba? double standards exist like you mentioned people putting their money in banks that profit from interest. Perhaps the message is one should not be too stringent in following 7th century texts to a tee and perhaps a bit akhli is required to reinterpret something that can hamstrung an entire community.

 

[Periplus]

It is kind of stupid if you ask me. Banks cannot give out interest free loans to people under a fiat system where inflation is present (mind you in Islamic countries, inflation is often much higher than in the West). It would bankrupt banks and collapse the economy.

This irrational fear of interest rates is terrible for economic growth and could partially explain why non-petrostate Muslim countries tend to be so poor.

PS. Check out the value of the Turkish Lira and the Lebanese currency against Western currencies, imagine loaning that out without interest, 0 sense.

Going by the reaction on this thread, Somalia can easily go down this path.

At the moment, most large scale real estate developments back home is done by banks or xawaalads, in which they offer the customers fixed monthly payment plans to pay off the house.

 

[Periplus]

Couldn't someone argue that it is still a loophole as another person could back up their argument by simply saying Riba is Riba? double standards exist like you mentioned people putting their money in banks that profit from interest. Perhaps the message is one should not be too stringent in following 7th century texts to a tee and perhaps a bit akhli is required to reinterpret something that can hamstrung an entire community.

People need to use their brain.

If they were anti-riba, they should put their money under the mattress and not in a bank.

Why do they put in a bank?

Because they know it is a necessity in this day and age.

Which begs the question: Do Somalis consider having a good quality of life as an unnecessary or haram concept?

 

[Apollo]

Going by the reaction on this thread, Somalia can easily go down this path.

At the moment, most large scale real estate developments back home is done by banks or xawaalads, in which they offer the customers fixed monthly payment plans to pay off the house.

Islamic banking is a scam, they mostly use the exact same calculations that Western banks do, often even with higher interest rates (but hidden and represented as fees or operational costs instead of interest rates).

There is no way you can lend out money interest free in a chaotic and underdeveloped country like Somalia. Massive default risks.

 

[Aurelian]

Loan interest are almost something normal in our household

 

[Sheikh Google]

I guess ayuuto/hagbad it is then. Then the money gets stolen by the drug dealing son because he wants to fund his criminal activities. I guess hiding the money under the bed aint the answer.

 

[Periplus]

In Australia, the major banks are suddenly offering "Sharia-compliant" banking loans.

Take a look at this @Apollo @Sheikh Google

Probably has nothing to do with the fact that Muslim Banking in Australia is predicted to become a $250 Billion AUD market.

Melike and Ibrahim don't pay interest on their home loans anymore. Here's how and why

Australia's finance sector is tapping into the Islamic market, with one of the country's biggest lenders today launching a Sharia compliant loan and smaller institutions vying to become the first bank for the nation's Muslim population.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Sheikh Google]

Islamic banking is a scam, they mostly use the exact same calculations that Western banks do, often even with higher interest rates (but hidden and represented as fees or operational costs instead of interest rates).

There is no way you can lend out money interest free in a chaotic and underdeveloped country like Somalia. Massive default risks.

Here in the UK they are scoundrels who prey on young muslims families who are trying to get on the housing ladder. I swear they are more evil than the mortgage people are trying to escape. Its not even a loophole they are straight scammers who like you said hide behind hidden fees.

 

[Apollo]

Interest free loans can only work under a gold standard.

If Islamic countries were serious about stopping riba, then their currencies would be backed by gold.

 

[Sheikh Google]

In Australia, the major banks are suddenly offering "Sharia-compliant" banking loans.

Take a look at this @Apollo @Sheikh Google

Probably has nothing to do with the fact that Muslim Banking in Australia is predicted to become a $250 Billion AUD market.

Melike and Ibrahim don't pay interest on their home loans anymore. Here's how and why

Australia's finance sector is tapping into the Islamic market, with one of the country's biggest lenders today launching a Sharia compliant loan and smaller institutions vying to become the first bank for the nation's Muslim population.

www.abc.net.au

To my head its just a loophole within a loophole but atleast they are trying. Much better than here in the UK where the options are limited.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

Because somalis are muslims.
However Mortgage is a necessity in the West.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Because somalis are muslims.
However Mortgage is a necessity in the West.

Interest is a necessity in the world*

Edit: Unless we live in a madmax utopia

 

[Marsh]

Are mortgages technically even Riba since the bank owns the house that you are buying and marks up the price to make a profit which is a standard business practice. Rather than making money from money they are selling a good.