HISTORY Who used to inhabit Maydh in the 16th century

[Midas]

So would that mean that sheikh Isaaqs tomb was made after the futuh period?

Yh I have no good answers to that . Somali clans and their association with ancestral Graves is one of the most mysterious aspects of our society in my opinion.

Sheikh issaq is said to be from like the 12th century but also somehow interacted and lived with aw barkhalde whos supposedly from the 10th century

 

[The alchemist]

Both have ties to the place, as mentioned by Futuh and British colonial documentation, but I am sure the region was used before Isaaq and Harti were even a thing. For example, only 30 km west of Maydh, you have Xiis, which has been documented to be used by Isaaqs, but is the place Somalis have traded before any extant clan existed. We're talking archeological and textual evidence and Somali-specific grave sites in the first century.

 

[Midas]

Yh I have no good answers to that . Somali clans and their association with ancestral Graves is one of the most mysterious aspects of our society in my opinion.

Sheikh issaq is said to be from like the 12th century but also somehow interacted and lived with aw barkhalde whos supposedly from the 10th century

Aren't some of the isaaq e-v32 ?

Maybe its possible the isaaq who are ev-32 used to be a part of the harti confederation and the ones who are in the other globols used to be part of the dir but they came together to form a new confederation?

This would explain why people say the isaaq used to ne part of dir and why a lot of them are the t haplogroup .

 

[Shimbiris]

Aren't some of the isaaq e-v32 ?

Maybe its possible the isaaq who are ev-32 used to be a part of the harti confederation and the ones who are in the other globols used to be part of the dir but they came together to form a new confederation?

This would explain why people say the isaaq used to ne part of dir and why a lot of them are the t haplogroup .

Sadly, the timing is too off and geography doesn't add up. The E-Z813 Isaaqs, to my memory, are of a pretty different subclade from Hartis, separated by over a millennia. Cousins rather than any sort of off-shoot. Then it's mainly Habar Awals who are E-Z813 carriers. The Isaaqs who live right next to Hartis, the Garxajis, are actually overwhelmingly T-L208.

But the way you're thinking is sensible. I've long wondered if the original make-up of the north, tribally speaking, was Dir & Darood. I'm reminded of a saying my grandma recounted to me from the northeast about the peopling of the north, "Dadka waa Dir iyo Darood." I found that quite strange cos, well, where's Isaaq in that? Then it struck some alarm bells when I noticed some of the oral traditions recounting reer Isaaq as an off-shoot of the Dir and the T-L208 and E-Z813 divide.

I sometimes wonder if some sort of weird ancestral memory was going on there with "Dir" basically being the South Arabian migrants who brought camel pastoralism, zebu cattle, asiatic goats and sheep, OSA loanwords and possibly even Musnad and "Darood" representing the Somalis who were already present. Then, hilariously, the post-Islamic story got flipped with the Daroods as the migrants and the Dir as the locals. Just light musings...

 

[Midas]

Sadly, the timing is too off and geography doesn't add up. The E-Z813 Isaaqs, to my memory, are of a pretty different subclade from Hartis, separated by over a millennia. Cousins rather than any sort of off-shoot. Then it's mainly Habar Awals who are E-Z813 carriers. The Isaaqs who live right next to Hartis, the Garxajis, are actually overwhelmingly T-L208.

But the way you're thinking is sensible. I've long wondered if the original make-up of the north, tribally speaking, was Dir & Darood. I'm reminded of a saying my grandma recounted to me from the northeast about the peopling of the north, "Dadka waa Dir iyo Darood." I found that quite strange cos, well, where's Isaaq in that? Then it struck some alarm bells when I noticed some of the oral traditions recounting reer Isaaq as an off-shoot of the Dir and the T-L208 and E-Z813 divide.

I sometimes wonder if some sort of weird ancestral memory was going on there with "Dir" basically being the South Arabian migrants who brought camel pastoralism, zebu cattle, asiatic goats and sheep, OSA loanwords and possibly even Musnad and "Darood" representing the Somalis who were already present. Then, hilariously, the post-Islamic story got flipped with the Daroods as the migrants and the Dir as the locals. Just light musings...

I think the tribal confederations at the the top are probably far older and probably shifted a few times

 

[Midas]

sometimes wonder if some sort of weird ancestral memory was going on there with "Dir" basically being the South Arabian migrants who brought camel pastoralism, zebu cattle, asiatic goats and sheep, OSA loanwords and possibly even Musnad and "Darood" representing the Somalis who were already present

I feel like the ethnic differences would be way more noticeable if that was the case. Look at how the cads cads who some of them have probably been here for over a 1,000 years are still so ethnically distinct. I dont think it be possible for somalis to assimilate such a large group and not still remember them being ethnically different.


Plus theres the biggest factor which is ive never seen anybody besides myself highlight which is that south Arabians dont actually practice pastoralism they're basically like 99% farmers

 

[nobutreally]

There’s a Xaaji Af-Qalooc poem titled “Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo” that touches upon some now largely lost oral history. According to him, the ancient inhabitants were Madigaan, the ones who left behind archaeological structures. “Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye…” (The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory…). I know little of clans, but are Madigaan Dir?

“Muftigii Isxaaq” (Isaaq religious jurists) and “mudankii Daarood” (noblemen of Daarood) came after. In the poem, he also alludes to other ancient polities that rose and fell, which aligns with my family's passed down tales about Maakhir.




Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo

Taariikhdu waynoo musbaax maanka caawima’e,
Adoo mala gudaayaad yaqiin marar ku gaadhaaye,
Maankaaga waa inaad taqaan meelba waxa yaalle,
Dalkan waxa ugu mudan Ceerigaab uguna muq dheere.

Waa Maakhir – koostii la degey mar aan la koobayne,
Jamhuuriyaddu meel shaabahdiyo ma leh mataalkeede,
Madxafkii dadkii hore dhigiyo madhaxi baa yaale,
Maanlahiyo taalloyin aad aqallo moodaysid.

Meelihii kinsiga lagu qarshey maangaddood tahaye,
Muuqooda qaar baa ahraam lagu maleeeyaaye,
Arraweelo meeshay degtiyo mulugga Ceel-Wayte,
Iyo waxa manaasiir ku jira moodkii la halleeyey.

Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye,
Maquure iyo godqoraan ninkii marayba yaabaye,
Maageere waataa daryale maagga la arkaaye,
Nimankii mar dhexe talinjirey maylinka afaystay.

Magaadle iyo reer miisanleey midhadh ka joogaane,
Maydh laba kun oo sano ka badan maray samaysnayde,
Iyadaa magaalo u ahayd Maakhir oo idil’e,
Muftaaxii karaamada kuwii midigta loo saaray.

Muftigii Isxaaq baa degiyo mudankii Daaroode,
Maqbarka Ciise Ceeleeye waa kaa masaarka lehe,
Sheekh Samirre marinkii Dibgax buu meel u leeyahe,
Madoobiyo Garruuraa lahaa madaxa Ceel-Dheere.

Jiidali Maqaamki Subeer baa u moosin ahe,
Dhammaan meeshaney degi jireen magaca Soomaale,
Waxna waa madheen, qaarna waa kii muhaajiraye,
In yaroo markii soo hadhay baa haatan maamula’e.

Mandartiyo kamaalkaad Lubnaan ugu malaysaaye,
Manaakh iyo hawoba waxay ka tahay Mawsilta Ciraaqe,
Kolkaad madaxa surudeed tagtiyo meesha ugu taagan,
Badda waxa maraayoo dhanbaa kuu muraayadahe.

Sayid Maxamed meeshuu dhisaan maabku doorasamine,
Madfaca laga ridaa wuxu socdaa kuman masaafoode,
Melaterigu meeluu degoo muhima weeyaane,
Muntasah Marso iyo Daalo waa lagu murqaamaaye.

Mayay baa ka da’a goortay tahay milayga jiilaale,
Daruurtoo mijaha soo rogtiyo wadayda mayl gaadha,
Sida mawjaddiyo doonyahay marar is jiidhaane,
Dhirtaa qaarba midab leeyihiyo man iyo awraaqe.

Mawareed in lagu daadiyaad midabka moodaaye,
Min aroos sidaad soo gashiyo mawlidkii Nebiga (CS),
Miski baa ka ura kaymihiyo malafka geedaha’e,
Shimbiraha mukhtalifka u ciya ee midiba hees qaado.

Oo midabka kala gooniyoo cadad malyuun gaadha,
Mawdiyo siyaaxaad ardiyo macallin moodaaye,
Qoolley ku madadaalisiyo muurradaa badane,
Goortuu gobyahan waa murdiye gooni miranaayo.

Oo uu gumburi sawd macaan meel fog kala yeedho,
Oo marisku kuu soo warramo meesha waxa jooga,
Ood raha maddixiisa iyo maqasho daa’uuska,
Oo gorod muyuusigga tumuu galow ku maaweesho.

Adigiyo naftaada murmaan doonin meel kale’e,
Intay mudunka kale dheertaheye Maalik ku abuuray,
Oo wada manaafiic dawo ah baa markhaatiya’e,
Dayib mudhay mataanaha dhosoqa marinta guudkooda.

Maqaariga abeesada deliyo wegerka moohaaya,
Maraaraale dhamiskiyo Shinnuur midabka yaaquud leh,
Manka ubax dibowgay, shinnidu miida ku abuurto,
Muddaahda iyo guubalida iyo mooligu xiiska.

Minyeelahiyo geed-gaalka iyo shayga midhihiisa,
Moxorkoo luubaan laga gurtiyo mayddigiyo fooxa,
Dhirta milixda wada yeelatee maalku ku hagaago,
Mudo haddii la dhigo soorta aan midabku doorsoomin.

Intaas oo manfac ah baa jirta oo waa la moog yahaye,
Madaar iyo marsiyo laydh maliyo Baan macaamilo’e,
Miishaarta qorigaa halkii meel la dhigay taalla,
Waxay muhandisyadu soo direen riiggay madhiyaane.

Waa miilo cagafay, ilkuhu maqan yihiin qaare,
Haddaad maanta noo timidse waa mahad Ilaahaye,
Maansha Allee wax u dhammee way madowdahaye.








English Translation

History is vast, a lamp that lights the mind,
When you trace its depths, you learn the ways to reach your moments.
You must know your own mind, what lies in each place,
And of all in this land, Ceerigaabo stands noble and high.

It is Maakhir, once a bustling port beyond measure,
The Republic has no equal nor parallel to it.
The museum holds relics of the ancients,
With monuments and statues you’d mistake for royal palaces.

Where treasures were once hidden, their wisdom lingers still,
Some sights there resemble towering pyramids.
Where Araweelo once dwelled, and the shadowed depth of Ceel-Wayte,
Are ruins where once great civilizations stood.

The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory,
Their carvings and subterranean tunnels astonish all who pass.
Maageere stands, a guardian, the land reveals its secrets,
The kings who once ruled sharpened the blade of their domain.

Magaadle and the noble clans left fruits behind,
Maydh, over two thousand years old, was shaped long ago.
It was the capital of all Maakhir,
The key to honor placed in the hands of the worthy.

Isaaq’s scholars settled there, and Daarood’s noble chiefs.
The tomb of Ciise Ceeleeye bears sacred marks,
Sheikh Samirre’s path through Dibgax remains his legacy,
And Madoob and Garruuraa once held Ceel-Dheere’s heights.

Jiidali, the station of Subeer, became a sacred resting ground,
All who dwelled there carried the Somali name.
Some have passed, some have migrated far,
And only a few remain to govern today. (Who is he talking about here, I wonder?)

Its elegance rivals that of Lebanon,
Its climate and skies resemble Mosul in Iraq.
When you stand atop its highest peak,
The entire sea before you becomes a mirror.

The place Sayid Maxamed built was no ordinary ground,
Cannons there could fire across great distances.
The army camped in strategically vital locations,
At Muntasah Port and Daalo, people find joy and peace.

When rain falls in the heart of winter,
Clouds gather and travel far across the land.
Like waves pulling ships together,
The trees bloom with colors, sap, and leaves.


The blossoms spill their hues like scattered gems,
Just as in weddings and in the Prophet’s (PBUH) celebration.
A scent of musk rises from the trees and fields,
And birds of every kind sing songs, each in its own tune.

Colors blend and burst into millions of shades,
The fields teem with life, students and teachers alike.
Monkeys play in joy, and herds grow vast.
When the noble harvest ripens, it falls freely.

Sweet melodies echo from afar,
And the wind carries stories of those who live there.
You hear the rustle of reeds and the call of doves,
And the crane’s music charms you by the riverbank.

You and your soul seek no other place,
For God made it higher than all others.
It is filled with countless healing blessings,
The twin springs of life flow richly from its heart.

The cobra’s skin and the mongoose’s fur shimmer there,
The beeswax glows ruby-red.
The pollen of its blossoms births the finest honey,
The hum of bees and the dance of moths fill the air.

From the milky frankincense tree and its resin’s fruits,
To the myrrh and incense collected from its bark,
The salt-bearing plants enrich the land.
Even if stored for long, their color never fades.

All these blessings exist, yet many remain unaware.
Airstrips, ports, and bright lights now fill the land,
Where once only the gun barrel stood guard.
Now, engineers drill deep and find wealth below.

It’s a land plowed by machines, its riches uncountable.
And if you arrive here today, praise be to God,
For all is complete, though still wrapped in mystery.

 

[Midas]

There’s a Xaaji Af-Qalooc poem titled “Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo” that touches upon some now largely lost oral history. According to him, the ancient inhabitants were Madigaan, the ones who left behind archaeological structures. “Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye…” (The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory…). I know little of clans, but are Madigaan Dir?

“Muftigii Isxaaq” (Isaaq religious jurists) and “mudankii Daarood” (noblemen of Daarood) came after. In the poem, he also alludes to other ancient polities that rose and fell, which aligns with my family's passed down tales about Maakhir.




Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo

Taariikhdu waynoo musbaax maanka caawima’e,
Adoo mala gudaayaad yaqiin marar ku gaadhaaye,
Maankaaga waa inaad taqaan meelba waxa yaalle,
Dalkan waxa ugu mudan Ceerigaab uguna muq dheere.

Waa Maakhir – koostii la degey mar aan la koobayne,
Jamhuuriyaddu meel shaabahdiyo ma leh mataalkeede,
Madxafkii dadkii hore dhigiyo madhaxi baa yaale,
Maanlahiyo taalloyin aad aqallo moodaysid.

Meelihii kinsiga lagu qarshey maangaddood tahaye,
Muuqooda qaar baa ahraam lagu maleeeyaaye,
Arraweelo meeshay degtiyo mulugga Ceel-Wayte,
Iyo waxa manaasiir ku jira moodkii la halleeyey.

Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye,
Maquure iyo godqoraan ninkii marayba yaabaye,
Maageere waataa daryale maagga la arkaaye,
Nimankii mar dhexe talinjirey maylinka afaystay.

Magaadle iyo reer miisanleey midhadh ka joogaane,
Maydh laba kun oo sano ka badan maray samaysnayde,
Iyadaa magaalo u ahayd Maakhir oo idil’e,
Muftaaxii karaamada kuwii midigta loo saaray.

Muftigii Isxaaq baa degiyo mudankii Daaroode,
Maqbarka Ciise Ceeleeye waa kaa masaarka lehe,
Sheekh Samirre marinkii Dibgax buu meel u leeyahe,
Madoobiyo Garruuraa lahaa madaxa Ceel-Dheere.

Jiidali Maqaamki Subeer baa u moosin ahe,
Dhammaan meeshaney degi jireen magaca Soomaale,
Waxna waa madheen, qaarna waa kii muhaajiraye,
In yaroo markii soo hadhay baa haatan maamula’e.

Mandartiyo kamaalkaad Lubnaan ugu malaysaaye,
Manaakh iyo hawoba waxay ka tahay Mawsilta Ciraaqe,
Kolkaad madaxa surudeed tagtiyo meesha ugu taagan,
Badda waxa maraayoo dhanbaa kuu muraayadahe.

Sayid Maxamed meeshuu dhisaan maabku doorasamine,
Madfaca laga ridaa wuxu socdaa kuman masaafoode,
Melaterigu meeluu degoo muhima weeyaane,
Muntasah Marso iyo Daalo waa lagu murqaamaaye.

Mayay baa ka da’a goortay tahay milayga jiilaale,
Daruurtoo mijaha soo rogtiyo wadayda mayl gaadha,
Sida mawjaddiyo doonyahay marar is jiidhaane,
Dhirtaa qaarba midab leeyihiyo man iyo awraaqe.

Mawareed in lagu daadiyaad midabka moodaaye,
Min aroos sidaad soo gashiyo mawlidkii Nebiga (CS),
Miski baa ka ura kaymihiyo malafka geedaha’e,
Shimbiraha mukhtalifka u ciya ee midiba hees qaado.

Oo midabka kala gooniyoo cadad malyuun gaadha,
Mawdiyo siyaaxaad ardiyo macallin moodaaye,
Qoolley ku madadaalisiyo muurradaa badane,
Goortuu gobyahan waa murdiye gooni miranaayo.

Oo uu gumburi sawd macaan meel fog kala yeedho,
Oo marisku kuu soo warramo meesha waxa jooga,
Ood raha maddixiisa iyo maqasho daa’uuska,
Oo gorod muyuusigga tumuu galow ku maaweesho.

Adigiyo naftaada murmaan doonin meel kale’e,
Intay mudunka kale dheertaheye Maalik ku abuuray,
Oo wada manaafiic dawo ah baa markhaatiya’e,
Dayib mudhay mataanaha dhosoqa marinta guudkooda.

Maqaariga abeesada deliyo wegerka moohaaya,
Maraaraale dhamiskiyo Shinnuur midabka yaaquud leh,
Manka ubax dibowgay, shinnidu miida ku abuurto,
Muddaahda iyo guubalida iyo mooligu xiiska.

Minyeelahiyo geed-gaalka iyo shayga midhihiisa,
Moxorkoo luubaan laga gurtiyo mayddigiyo fooxa,
Dhirta milixda wada yeelatee maalku ku hagaago,
Mudo haddii la dhigo soorta aan midabku doorsoomin.

Intaas oo manfac ah baa jirta oo waa la moog yahaye,
Madaar iyo marsiyo laydh maliyo Baan macaamilo’e,
Miishaarta qorigaa halkii meel la dhigay taalla,
Waxay muhandisyadu soo direen riiggay madhiyaane.

Waa miilo cagafay, ilkuhu maqan yihiin qaare,
Haddaad maanta noo timidse waa mahad Ilaahaye,
Maansha Allee wax u dhammee way madowdahaye.








English Translation

History is vast, a lamp that lights the mind,
When you trace its depths, you learn the ways to reach your moments.
You must know your own mind, what lies in each place,
And of all in this land, Ceerigaabo stands noble and high.

It is Maakhir, once a bustling port beyond measure,
The Republic has no equal nor parallel to it.
The museum holds relics of the ancients,
With monuments and statues you’d mistake for royal palaces.

Where treasures were once hidden, their wisdom lingers still,
Some sights there resemble towering pyramids.
Where Araweelo once dwelled, and the shadowed depth of Ceel-Wayte,
Are ruins where once great civilizations stood.

The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory,
Their carvings and subterranean tunnels astonish all who pass.
Maageere stands, a guardian, the land reveals its secrets,
The kings who once ruled sharpened the blade of their domain.

Magaadle and the noble clans left fruits behind,
Maydh, over two thousand years old, was shaped long ago.
It was the capital of all Maakhir,
The key to honor placed in the hands of the worthy.

Isaaq’s scholars settled there, and Daarood’s noble chiefs.
The tomb of Ciise Ceeleeye bears sacred marks,
Sheikh Samirre’s path through Dibgax remains his legacy,
And Madoob and Garruuraa once held Ceel-Dheere’s heights.

Jiidali, the station of Subeer, became a sacred resting ground,
All who dwelled there carried the Somali name.
Some have passed, some have migrated far,
And only a few remain to govern today. (Who is he talking about here, I wonder?)

Its elegance rivals that of Lebanon,
Its climate and skies resemble Mosul in Iraq.
When you stand atop its highest peak,
The entire sea before you becomes a mirror.

The place Sayid Maxamed built was no ordinary ground,
Cannons there could fire across great distances.
The army camped in strategically vital locations,
At Muntasah Port and Daalo, people find joy and peace.

When rain falls in the heart of winter,
Clouds gather and travel far across the land.
Like waves pulling ships together,
The trees bloom with colors, sap, and leaves.


The blossoms spill their hues like scattered gems,
Just as in weddings and in the Prophet’s (PBUH) celebration.
A scent of musk rises from the trees and fields,
And birds of every kind sing songs, each in its own tune.

Colors blend and burst into millions of shades,
The fields teem with life, students and teachers alike.
Monkeys play in joy, and herds grow vast.
When the noble harvest ripens, it falls freely.

Sweet melodies echo from afar,
And the wind carries stories of those who live there.
You hear the rustle of reeds and the call of doves,
And the crane’s music charms you by the riverbank.

You and your soul seek no other place,
For God made it higher than all others.
It is filled with countless healing blessings,
The twin springs of life flow richly from its heart.

The cobra’s skin and the mongoose’s fur shimmer there,
The beeswax glows ruby-red.
The pollen of its blossoms births the finest honey,
The hum of bees and the dance of moths fill the air.

From the milky frankincense tree and its resin’s fruits,
To the myrrh and incense collected from its bark,
The salt-bearing plants enrich the land.
Even if stored for long, their color never fades.

All these blessings exist, yet many remain unaware.
Airstrips, ports, and bright lights now fill the land,
Where once only the gun barrel stood guard.
Now, engineers drill deep and find wealth below.

It’s a land plowed by machines, its riches uncountable.
And if you arrive here today, praise be to God,
For all is complete, though still wrapped in mystery.

I think theres enough oral traditions like this that when combined with archeology and hopefully whatever we can find in manuscripts to reconstruct in broadstrokes what was going on in medieval somalia and maybe even preislamic somalia.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Oral history says that when the fourth generation after the Sheikh lived, they were living on the coast and the surrounding mountains. A large army came and there were more than them and the number of Isaaq men was only 230-300, so they chose to leave the area and went West

Based on genetic tmrca of HA atleast (one core group of H-Magaadle), we are about 750 yrs old. That’s roughly 1250 CE. 250 yrs before Imam Ahmed’s campaign. Habar Magaadle dominated T-FTE76991 also has a 750 ybp date. Which isn’t a coincidence.

 

[Shimbiris]

I feel like the ethnic differences would be way more noticeable if that was the case. Look at how the cads cads who some of them have probably been here for over a 1,000 years are still so ethnically distinct. I dont think it be possible for somalis to assimilate such a large group and not still remember them being ethnically different.


Plus theres the biggest factor which is ive never seen anybody besides myself highlight which is that south Arabians dont actually practice pastoralism they're basically like 99% farmers

You're comparing apples to oranges, walaal. Reer Gibil-Cad are an urban population from the last 500-1,000 years that was kept only in the towns and never really assimilated into miyi and wider society and even then they linguistically became Somalized, have overwhelmingly Somali mtDNA, a few V32 carriers as well and tend to be model-able as like 30-40% Somali.

The T-L208 folks would be more like a situation we have actually seen in recent Somali history:

Carab Saalax are a different story from "Yemeni-Somalis". The thing about my cousin's hooyo is that she's clearly still Yemeni genetically. You look at her and she's just a straight up Peninsular Arab woman but when she begins to speak she's just another eedo (kekekekek). Carab Saalaxs took it a step further and began intermarrying with ethnic Somalis for so long that the only thing foreign about them now is their Y-DNA and that they rememeber being genealogically Mehris. I used to think their claim was bullshit but I do recall some CSs getting sampled and turning up with a Y-DNA J1 clade that seemed to align with Mehris but these guys' mixing started ages ago. Even by the start of the 1900s when they had a fort in Bosaso they already looked like run of the mill Somalis:

"Fort of the Arabs" (Carab Saalax)

THE PROMONTORY OF CAPE GUARDAFUI

GIULIO BALDACCI; THE PROMONTORY OF CAPE GUARDAFUI, African Affairs, Volume IX, Issue XXXIII, 1 October 1909, Pages 59–72, https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfordjou

academic.oup.com

T folks would just be that on a somewhat widerscale. And, honestly, I doubt it was a huge community. Else you might be right and we'd notice something autosomal. It was probably just one somewhat small migration and the only reason their T-L208 is so common today is pretty obviously because some sort of founder-effect occurred among Northwesterners.

A lot of Dir folks are like 90% T-L208. That ain't normal and screams founder-effect. Same goes for E-Z813/V32 among Somalis; pastoralist people with the patrilineal tribal systems tend to deal with this often (Arabs and J1 or Pashtuns and R1a or early Indo-European and R1). It's plainly obvious this was some sort of founder-effect and the Arabians who definitely brought the lineage have more or less been "bred out" auDNA wise.

 

[Midas]

T folks would just be that on a somewhat widerscale. And, honestly, I doubt it was a huge community. Else you might be right and we'd notice something autosomal. It was probably just one somewhat small migration and the only reason their T-L208 is so common today is pretty obviously because some sort of founder-effect occurred among Northwesterners.

that's the thing though. If you add up all the dir and isaaq wo have have the t haplogroup your talking about a sizeable chunk of the somali pouplation. A founder effect can only go so far. The fact were dealing with clans werre basically everybody has this haplogroup means that the group didnt spread and remained in the initial place they landed. You'd expect at least some huge trace of this in their memory.

But my main argument is that the people who live in Yemen amd the wider south arabian region dont actually practice pastoralism at all. They are sedentary farmers who live in the mountainous regions . Even in Saudi Arabia both in modern and premodern times the settled Arabs outnumbered the nomadic Arabs

 

[Mckenzie]

The Futuh describes cities as countries simultaneously. For example, Harar is a city but also a country (Hararge). Zeila is a city but also a country (Awdal), so Meydh represented the old city as well as the wider Sanaag (or Maakhir) region. Afqalooc's poetry also shed's light on the town's prominence as a regional capital and as a resting place of multiple saints.

 

[Ugas.Wacays]

There’s a Xaaji Af-Qalooc poem titled “Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo” that touches upon some now largely lost oral history. According to him, the ancient inhabitants were Madigaan, the ones who left behind archaeological structures. “Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye…” (The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory…). I know little of clans, but are Madigaan Dir?

“Muftigii Isxaaq” (Isaaq religious jurists) and “mudankii Daarood” (noblemen of Daarood) came after. In the poem, he also alludes to other ancient polities that rose and fell, which aligns with my family's passed down tales about Maakhir.




Taariikh iyo Dhaxal: Gabay Ceerigaabo

Taariikhdu waynoo musbaax maanka caawima’e,
Adoo mala gudaayaad yaqiin marar ku gaadhaaye,
Maankaaga waa inaad taqaan meelba waxa yaalle,
Dalkan waxa ugu mudan Ceerigaab uguna muq dheere.

Waa Maakhir – koostii la degey mar aan la koobayne,
Jamhuuriyaddu meel shaabahdiyo ma leh mataalkeede,
Madxafkii dadkii hore dhigiyo madhaxi baa yaale,
Maanlahiyo taalloyin aad aqallo moodaysid.

Meelihii kinsiga lagu qarshey maangaddood tahaye,
Muuqooda qaar baa ahraam lagu maleeeyaaye,
Arraweelo meeshay degtiyo mulugga Ceel-Wayte,
Iyo waxa manaasiir ku jira moodkii la halleeyey.

Madigaan qusuurtay dhisteen waa macruuf weliye,
Maquure iyo godqoraan ninkii marayba yaabaye,
Maageere waataa daryale maagga la arkaaye,
Nimankii mar dhexe talinjirey maylinka afaystay.

Magaadle iyo reer miisanleey midhadh ka joogaane,
Maydh laba kun oo sano ka badan maray samaysnayde,
Iyadaa magaalo u ahayd Maakhir oo idil’e,
Muftaaxii karaamada kuwii midigta loo saaray.

Muftigii Isxaaq baa degiyo mudankii Daaroode,
Maqbarka Ciise Ceeleeye waa kaa masaarka lehe,
Sheekh Samirre marinkii Dibgax buu meel u leeyahe,
Madoobiyo Garruuraa lahaa madaxa Ceel-Dheere.

Jiidali Maqaamki Subeer baa u moosin ahe,
Dhammaan meeshaney degi jireen magaca Soomaale,
Waxna waa madheen, qaarna waa kii muhaajiraye,
In yaroo markii soo hadhay baa haatan maamula’e.

Mandartiyo kamaalkaad Lubnaan ugu malaysaaye,
Manaakh iyo hawoba waxay ka tahay Mawsilta Ciraaqe,
Kolkaad madaxa surudeed tagtiyo meesha ugu taagan,
Badda waxa maraayoo dhanbaa kuu muraayadahe.

Sayid Maxamed meeshuu dhisaan maabku doorasamine,
Madfaca laga ridaa wuxu socdaa kuman masaafoode,
Melaterigu meeluu degoo muhima weeyaane,
Muntasah Marso iyo Daalo waa lagu murqaamaaye.

Mayay baa ka da’a goortay tahay milayga jiilaale,
Daruurtoo mijaha soo rogtiyo wadayda mayl gaadha,
Sida mawjaddiyo doonyahay marar is jiidhaane,
Dhirtaa qaarba midab leeyihiyo man iyo awraaqe.

Mawareed in lagu daadiyaad midabka moodaaye,
Min aroos sidaad soo gashiyo mawlidkii Nebiga (CS),
Miski baa ka ura kaymihiyo malafka geedaha’e,
Shimbiraha mukhtalifka u ciya ee midiba hees qaado.

Oo midabka kala gooniyoo cadad malyuun gaadha,
Mawdiyo siyaaxaad ardiyo macallin moodaaye,
Qoolley ku madadaalisiyo muurradaa badane,
Goortuu gobyahan waa murdiye gooni miranaayo.

Oo uu gumburi sawd macaan meel fog kala yeedho,
Oo marisku kuu soo warramo meesha waxa jooga,
Ood raha maddixiisa iyo maqasho daa’uuska,
Oo gorod muyuusigga tumuu galow ku maaweesho.

Adigiyo naftaada murmaan doonin meel kale’e,
Intay mudunka kale dheertaheye Maalik ku abuuray,
Oo wada manaafiic dawo ah baa markhaatiya’e,
Dayib mudhay mataanaha dhosoqa marinta guudkooda.

Maqaariga abeesada deliyo wegerka moohaaya,
Maraaraale dhamiskiyo Shinnuur midabka yaaquud leh,
Manka ubax dibowgay, shinnidu miida ku abuurto,
Muddaahda iyo guubalida iyo mooligu xiiska.

Minyeelahiyo geed-gaalka iyo shayga midhihiisa,
Moxorkoo luubaan laga gurtiyo mayddigiyo fooxa,
Dhirta milixda wada yeelatee maalku ku hagaago,
Mudo haddii la dhigo soorta aan midabku doorsoomin.

Intaas oo manfac ah baa jirta oo waa la moog yahaye,
Madaar iyo marsiyo laydh maliyo Baan macaamilo’e,
Miishaarta qorigaa halkii meel la dhigay taalla,
Waxay muhandisyadu soo direen riiggay madhiyaane.

Waa miilo cagafay, ilkuhu maqan yihiin qaare,
Haddaad maanta noo timidse waa mahad Ilaahaye,
Maansha Allee wax u dhammee way madowdahaye.








English Translation

History is vast, a lamp that lights the mind,
When you trace its depths, you learn the ways to reach your moments.
You must know your own mind, what lies in each place,
And of all in this land, Ceerigaabo stands noble and high.

It is Maakhir, once a bustling port beyond measure,
The Republic has no equal nor parallel to it.
The museum holds relics of the ancients,
With monuments and statues you’d mistake for royal palaces.

Where treasures were once hidden, their wisdom lingers still,
Some sights there resemble towering pyramids.
Where Araweelo once dwelled, and the shadowed depth of Ceel-Wayte,
Are ruins where once great civilizations stood.

The Madigaan built palaces renowned for their glory,
Their carvings and subterranean tunnels astonish all who pass.
Maageere stands, a guardian, the land reveals its secrets,
The kings who once ruled sharpened the blade of their domain.

Magaadle and the noble clans left fruits behind,
Maydh, over two thousand years old, was shaped long ago.
It was the capital of all Maakhir,
The key to honor placed in the hands of the worthy.

Isaaq’s scholars settled there, and Daarood’s noble chiefs.
The tomb of Ciise Ceeleeye bears sacred marks,
Sheikh Samirre’s path through Dibgax remains his legacy,
And Madoob and Garruuraa once held Ceel-Dheere’s heights.

Jiidali, the station of Subeer, became a sacred resting ground,
All who dwelled there carried the Somali name.
Some have passed, some have migrated far,
And only a few remain to govern today. (Who is he talking about here, I wonder?)

Its elegance rivals that of Lebanon,
Its climate and skies resemble Mosul in Iraq.
When you stand atop its highest peak,
The entire sea before you becomes a mirror.

The place Sayid Maxamed built was no ordinary ground,
Cannons there could fire across great distances.
The army camped in strategically vital locations,
At Muntasah Port and Daalo, people find joy and peace.

When rain falls in the heart of winter,
Clouds gather and travel far across the land.
Like waves pulling ships together,
The trees bloom with colors, sap, and leaves.


The blossoms spill their hues like scattered gems,
Just as in weddings and in the Prophet’s (PBUH) celebration.
A scent of musk rises from the trees and fields,
And birds of every kind sing songs, each in its own tune.

Colors blend and burst into millions of shades,
The fields teem with life, students and teachers alike.
Monkeys play in joy, and herds grow vast.
When the noble harvest ripens, it falls freely.

Sweet melodies echo from afar,
And the wind carries stories of those who live there.
You hear the rustle of reeds and the call of doves,
And the crane’s music charms you by the riverbank.

You and your soul seek no other place,
For God made it higher than all others.
It is filled with countless healing blessings,
The twin springs of life flow richly from its heart.

The cobra’s skin and the mongoose’s fur shimmer there,
The beeswax glows ruby-red.
The pollen of its blossoms births the finest honey,
The hum of bees and the dance of moths fill the air.

From the milky frankincense tree and its resin’s fruits,
To the myrrh and incense collected from its bark,
The salt-bearing plants enrich the land.
Even if stored for long, their color never fades.

All these blessings exist, yet many remain unaware.
Airstrips, ports, and bright lights now fill the land,
Where once only the gun barrel stood guard.
Now, engineers drill deep and find wealth below.

It’s a land plowed by machines, its riches uncountable.
And if you arrive here today, praise be to God,
For all is complete, though still wrapped in mystery.

Very interesting Madigaan is the qabil of Shiekh Ciise first wife. They still live in the area and yeah Madigaan are Dir.

 

[Shimbiris]

that's the thing though. If you add up all the dir and isaaq wo have have the t haplogroup your talking about a sizeable chunk of the somali pouplation. A founder effect can only go so far. The fact were dealing with clans werre basically everybody has this haplogroup means that the group didnt spread and remained in the initial place they landed. You'd expect at least some huge trace of this in their memory.

But my main argument is that the people who live in Yemen amd the wider south arabian region dont actually practice pastoralism at all. They are sedentary farmers who live in the mountainous regions . Even in Saudi Arabia both in modern and premodern times the settled Arabs outnumbered the nomadic Arabs

That's not true, walaal. People definitely underestimate how many oasis towns and villages existed but across much of what is now Arabia, Bedouins were the majority just about a century ago. I mean just as recently as 1950, 50% of Sa3udis were still Ahlil Badiyah (Bedouins):

In 1950 Saudi Arabia’s nomadic population was estimated at 50 percent.” - source

Also, around 2,000-3,000 years ago in what is now Yemen, the conditions would have been different. Semites had only somewhat recently begun arriving from the Levant after the Bronze-Age collapse. Much of these folk were still very pastoral in nature unlike what Yemen would eventually become like (majority settled), as is the base culture of all Semites. It is perfectly plausible that a contingent of camel pastoralists made the journey across the Bab al-mandeb or the Khaleej of Aden and made contact with early Somalis.

Also, your point about Somali population size doesn't hold water, in my humble opinion. Walaalkay, all 15 million+ Somalis in Somalia/Somaliland today are descended from as few as 2.8 million Somalis from 1960. The overall Somaliweyn population probably didn't exceed another 1-2 million? That's <5 million people being the ancestors of arguably going on 30 million people or more today.

Our ancestors from 1,500-2,500ybp would have been even smaller in number by far and away than the folk of 1960 so yes, it's not at all improbable that some founder-effect occurred with T-L208 with such population sizes and, as I told you, this is COMMON across the world among pastoral peoples even with decent population sizes. One lineage like J-P58 or R1a-Z93 can just easily BLOW UP at frequencies you'd be shocked by because some pre-historic or ancient tribe was probably just patrilineally dominant once upon a time or something, and not necessarily super numerous in numbers.

 

[Midas]

That's not true, walaal. People definitely underestimate how many oasis towns and villages existed but across much of what is now Arabia, Bedouins were the majority just about a century ago. I mean just as recently as 1950, 50% of Sa3udis were still Ahlil Badiyah (Bedouins):



Also, around 2,000-3,000 years ago in what is now Yemen, the conditions would have been different. Semites had only somewhat recently begun arriving from the Levant after the Bronze-Age collapse. Much of these folk were still very pastoral in nature unlike what Yemen would eventually become like (majority settled), as is the base culture of all Semites. It is perfectly plausible that a contingent of camel pastoralists made the journey across the Bab al-mandeb or the Khaleej of Aden and made contact with early Somalis.

Also, your point about Somali population size doesn't hold water, in my humble opinion. Walaalkay, all 15 million+ Somalis in Somalia/Somaliland today are descended from as few as 2.8 million Somalis from 1960. The overall Somaliweyn population probably didn't exceed another 1-2 million? That's <5 million people being the ancestors of arguably going on 30 million people or more today.

Our ancestors from 1,500-2,500ybp would have been even smaller in number by far and away than the folk of 1960 so yes, it's not at all improbable that some founder-effect occurred with T-L208 with such population sizes and, as I told you, this is COMMON across the world among pastoral peoples even with decent population sizes. One lineage like J-P58 or R1a-Z93 can just easily BLOW UP at frequencies you'd be shocked by because some pre-historic or ancient tribe was probably just patrilineally dominant once upon a time or something, and not necessarily super numerous in numbers.

I cant really comment on the genetic origins of t-l208 since that's way more your specialty, but my argument basically rests on three premises

1) If we look at the geography of somaliweyene, it is about 1 million km's of mainly flat land in which 90% of that is suitable for pastoralism. Somalia is basically the equivalent of the steppe but for camels. Arabia on the other hand while wetter 2,000 years ago (so was somalia) would have still have been mainly desert like today with the rain heavily concentrated in the mountains.

2) we already have a domestication precedent in that donkeys were domesticated in somalia. There is also the fact that crops as diverse as khat and coffee were both from the horn and then exported to Arabia where they began growing them. So there is a pattern of both livestock and crops domesticated in the horn first moving to arabia. As far as I can tell we don't have any examples of the opposite.


3) east african camels have been found to be the most genetically diverse and the origins according to this study have place camel domestication around the coastal regions of southeast arabia.

 

[Garaad Awal]

That's not true, walaal. People definitely underestimate how many oasis towns and villages existed but across much of what is now Arabia, Bedouins were the majority just about a century ago. I mean just as recently as 1950, 50% of Sa3udis were still Ahlil Badiyah (Bedouins):



Also, around 2,000-3,000 years ago in what is now Yemen, the conditions would have been different. Semites had only somewhat recently begun arriving from the Levant after the Bronze-Age collapse. Much of these folk were still very pastoral in nature unlike what Yemen would eventually become like (majority settled), as is the base culture of all Semites. It is perfectly plausible that a contingent of camel pastoralists made the journey across the Bab al-mandeb or the Khaleej of Aden and made contact with early Somalis.

Also, your point about Somali population size doesn't hold water, in my humble opinion. Walaalkay, all 15 million+ Somalis in Somalia/Somaliland today are descended from as few as 2.8 million Somalis from 1960. The overall Somaliweyn population probably didn't exceed another 1-2 million? That's <5 million people being the ancestors of arguably going on 30 million people or more today.

Our ancestors from 1,500-2,500ybp would have been even smaller in number by far and away than the folk of 1960 so yes, it's not at all improbable that some founder-effect occurred with T-L208 with such population sizes and, as I told you, this is COMMON across the world among pastoral peoples even with decent population sizes. One lineage like J-P58 or R1a-Z93 can just easily BLOW UP at frequencies you'd be shocked by because some pre-historic or ancient tribe was probably just patrilineally dominant once upon a time or something, and not necessarily super numerous in numbers.

J-P58 did blow up among the lower caste clans. They seems 60-70% J-P58. There’s also those Sheekhaal clans who are E-M81 but autosomal’s carry no North African ancestry.