What is stopping the Somali diaspora from voting right wing

[Periplus]

But yeah the republican party, is like a combination of 4 political parties (christian evangelist, white supremacist, moderate conservatives, businessmen who want lower taxes).
and most of these groups do not even get along.

Moderate conservative republicans are dead. There has been no moderate republican president for decades.

White supremacists and christian evangelicals both hate us, as a predominately black muslim ethnicity.

Businessmen who want lower taxes are not in your best interest either as they actually can weaken or destroy your economy if given exactly what they want.

 

[Apollo]

I completely agree, Merkel is right wing but she's not racist or islamophobic.

People are often shocked by this that she is of the center-right. People often portray her as an extreme leftwinger, but in reality she would be like a John Kasich/Liberal Republican in the US.

 

[Periplus]

Ethiopians dont have that lazy culture thats ehy you never catch 9 Ethiopians sitting in a restaurant talking about shit all day

If you come to Australia, there is no difference between Somali-Australians and Ethiopian-Aussies.

Dare I say it, the Somali-Australians have become more economically successful as a community, however, the second generation of Ethiopian-Australians might over-take us.

 

[Apollo]

If you come to Australia, there is no difference between Somali-Australians and Ethiopian-Aussies.

Dare I say it, the Somali-Australians have become more economically successful as a community, however, the second generation of Ethiopian-Australians might over-take us.

Isn't the minimum wage in Australia high and didn't Australia like never experience a recession?

I think the economic conditions of Australia are very different from Europe and the East Coast of the USA which are experiencing slowly deteriorating economies/heavy de-industrialization and more despair.

Rust Belt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Periplus]

Aren't wages in Australia super high and didn't Australia like never experience a recession?

I think the economic conditions of Australia are very different from Europe and the East Coast of the USA which are experiencing slowly deteriorating economies/heavy de-industrialization and more dispair.

The minimum wage in Australia is high, its at $20 AUD (12.5 EUR/10.6 GBP/15 USD) per hour.

Australia did not experience a recession for three decades until 2020, most of this was due to good financial management by the Labor (left-wing) governments and the mining economy. However, as we saw in 2020, we cannot rely on mining and having China buy us out of potential recessions. Now, Australia has to re-think its economic plans going forward.

Australia and the US are good comparisons as they have similar economic make ups but difference in governance. If the US was governed like Australia, it would be more economically successful country imo.

 

[Apollo]

The minimum wage in Australia is high, its at $20 AUD (12.5 EUR/10.6 GBP/15 USD) per hour.

Australia did not experience a recession for three decades until 2020, most of this was due to good financial management by the Labor (left-wing) governments and the mining economy. However, as we saw in 2020, we cannot rely on mining and having China buy us out of potential recessions. Now, Australia has to re-think its economic plans going forward.

Australia and the US are good comparisons as they have similar economic make ups but difference in governance. If the US was governed like Australia, it would be more economically successful country imo.

I remember reading a reddit thread of British people who moved over to Australia and claiming they earned so much more and had a lot more disposable income.

Lol, so this may also be the case for Somali and Ethiopian Australians over there. So to compare them to the misery of British Somalis may be a bit misleading.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

Firstly, getting a job does not guarantee that you will not be better off without welfare. For example, the minimum wage in America is less than $10 USD per hour, which cannot sustain oneself let alone a partner or family. Even in welfare nations like Australia, the lower working echelon find it difficult to live with their salary. Welfare is supposed to protect people from poverty.

Secondly, the conservative model of lower taxes do not work for the common man, be it a working class individual or the middle class family. The London School of Economics, which is actually the university that Hayek (founding father of anti-Keynesian economics) attended released a comprehensive study on how trickle-down economics does not work.

As for your points about welfare, it is impossible to strike that balance. The only thing one can do is make a level of comfortable welfare but force welfare recipients to actively search for jobs that is at the same pay level of the welfare payments.

As for your points regarding GDP growth, let me ask you this:

Why do governments (left or right wing) implement cash bonuses to people during economic catastrophes, especially during this pandemic?

In Australia and the US, both conservative governments increased the amount of welfare an individual got during the coronavirus pandemic. In fact, some welfare recipients, if not the majority received payments well above minimum wage.

I agree that minimum wage isn't always enough, this is why I'm not against welfare as a whole.
I'm only against forcing hardworking people to pay more taxes so that welfare recipients can live a better life than

We cannot say that about trickle down economics, it's not always black or white but it's a shade of grey.
It doesn't always work, but sometimes it saves the economy. I don't think that increasing taxes during a pandemic will help everyone. Instead you'll see billionaires hiding their assets in tax havens.

I completely agree that in time of economic crisis like Covid, the great depression or the great recession we have to give money to the people who are facing poverty during the crisis, but now there's an inflation going on because we didn't prepare for a crisis.
This is why we should decrease or minimize deficits (decrease useless spendings) in times of economic prosperity.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

Moderate conservative republicans are dead. There has been no moderate republican president for decades.

White supremacists and christian evangelicals both hate us, as a predominately black muslim ethnicity.

Businessmen who want lower taxes are not in your best interest either as they actually can weaken or destroy your economy if given exactly what they want.

George Bush was a moderate republican who didn't do racist dogwhistling.
But he was elected during a time where America became more islamophobic and did stupid things like invading Iraq. If he was elected in 2020, it would have been a different story.
George Bush became president at a time where white supremacists were politically unactive which means they didn't vote because none of the political candidates represented them (now they vote republicans because of Trump).
I would say that the republican party of 2000 was more open minded than the trumpists in 2016.

 

[Periplus]

I remember reading a reddit thread of British people who moved over to Australia and claiming they earned so much more and had a lot more disposable income.

Lol, so this may also be the case for Somali and Ethiopian Australians over there. So to compare them to the misery of British Somalis may be a bit misleading.

The British in Australia are generally more educated than your average immigrant/asylum seeker.

The first waves of Somali immigrants to Australia (1985-1996) benefitted from being young and willing to work. Many went straight into university while working or on welfare, some went to unskilled labour.

I can't lie to you that many went straight to welfare/taxi-driving, but fast forward three decades, these people are out of housing commission and many have their own houses now. Problem is that an entire new generation of Somali immigrants are there but the future looks bleaker for them.

 

[Apollo]

George Bush was a moderate republican who didn't do racist dogwhistling.

Iraq War, lmao.

Without it, he would be relatively moderate, but the Iraq War put him on the fringes.

PS. I don't think he caused the 2008-2009 financial crisis. Bill Clinton actually did with reckless monetary policy and banking deregulations in the 90s/early 2000s.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

Iraq War, lmao.

Without it, he would be relatively moderate, but the Iraq War put him on the fringes.

PS. I don't think he caused the 2008 financial crisis. Bill Clinton actually did with reckless monetary policy and banking deregulations in the 90s/early 2000s.

Yeah that's what I said, the Iraq war was stupid and it ruined his reputation.
But other than that, he wasn't as crazy as Trump in the national stage.

 

[Periplus]

I agree that minimum wage isn't always enough, this is why I'm not against welfare as a whole.
I'm only against forcing hardworking people to pay more taxes so that welfare recipients can live a better life than

Then isn't the problem that hard-working people are not being paid a fair wage. I think the problem you mention lies with a crappy minimum wage rather than decent welfare payments.

A minimum wage should be above the poverty line and be adjusted for inflation, a good welfare rate would be at the same level if not lower.

We cannot say that about trickle down economics, it's not always black or white but it's a shade of grey.
It doesn't always work, but sometimes it saves the economy. I don't think that increasing taxes during a pandemic will help everyone. Instead you'll see billionaires hiding their assets in tax havens.

Before the Southern Strategy, the Republicans had a 90% top marginal tax rate for the wealthiest Americans.

The idea of cutting taxes for the rich does not work simply because for them to have reached that level, they made selfish decisions. How can one seriously expect that person to have altruistic intentions after receiving tax benefits from the government?

Read this study sxb:

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Hope_economic_consequences_of_major_tax_cuts_published.pdf

I completely agree that in time of economic crisis like Covid, the great depression or the great recession we have to give money to the people who are facing poverty during the crisis, but now there's an inflation going on because we didn't prepare for a crisis.
This is why we should decrease or minimize deficits (decrease useless spendings) in times of economic prosperity.

The problem is that people on welfare were facing poverty before, during and after covid.

The reason why governments implement spending sprees on the poor is because they spend that money back because they cannot afford to save. That boosts the economy if one uses the AD/GDP = C+I+G+NX (Aggregate demand = Consumption + Investment + Gov't spending + Net Exports) equation.

To put simply: Increase minimum wage, increase welfare to just below minimum wage, inflation adjust each every year, implement mandatory job seeking requirements and skills training for welfare recipients.

That's your economy built.

 

[Periplus]

George Bush was a moderate republican who didn't do racist dogwhistling.
But he was elected during a time where America became more islamophobic and did stupid things like invading Iraq. If he was elected in 2020, it would have been a different story.
George Bush became president at a time where white supremacists were politically unactive which means they didn't vote because none of the political candidates represented them (now they vote republicans because of Trump).
I would say that the republican party of 2000 was more open minded than the trumpists in 2016.

Maybe but then again, he hired Cheney as his VP and Rumsfeld as his Defence secretary, both of whom had a decades-long reputation for doing exactly what they did in the 2000's.

Even if I was to agree and say he was open-minded, he still had to build his government on a non-moderate Republican platform. What's the point of a moderate Republican president if the government in his name is not?

 

[Periplus]

Iraq War, lmao.

Without it, he would be relatively moderate, but the Iraq War put him on the fringes.

PS. I don't think he caused the 2008-2009 financial crisis. Bill Clinton actually did with reckless monetary policy and banking deregulations in the 90s/early 2000s.

The Republican shift in 1970's away from Eisenhower-inspired economic policies started the snowball. Reaganomics, Clinton and Bush each put nails in the coffins.

 

[Apollo]

The Republican shift in 1970's away from Eisenhower-inspired economic policies started the snowball. Reaganomics, Clinton and Bush each put nails in the coffins.

Nah, it was Bill Clinton:

Glass–Steagall legislation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'' In November 1999, President Bill Clinton publicly declared "the Glass–Steagall law is no longer appropriate".[8][9] ''

He also created a blow off top Dot-com bubble that led to the housing bubble a few years later.

 

[Periplus]

Nah, it was Bill Clinton:

Glass–Steagall legislation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'' In November 1999, President Bill Clinton publicly declared "the Glass–Steagall law is no longer appropriate".[8][9] ''

He also created the blow off top bubble (Dot-com bubble) that lead to the housing bubble a few years later.

My point was more about who started mortgage bonds as a concept, which was under Nixon and the beginning of CDO's which were under Bush 41.

I have not actually looked into this specific topic regarding Clinton tho.

 

[Apollo]

My point was more about who started mortgage bonds as a concept, which was under Nixon and the beginning of CDO's which were under Bush 41.

I have not actually looked into this specific topic regarding Clinton tho.

Yeah, Nixon was a shady dude. He also stopped the gold standard. The entire American financial system is sketchy if you look deeply into it.

They scam the entire world by printing a lot of their currency for nothing and then exporting those USD by buying up goods and services abroad. This will only work so long as the USD is the global reserve currency, but once its stops being one... oh boy.

I think America's GDP is like 25% boosted by the USD. Their GDP per capita would be like Canada without it (-25% lower).

 

[Periplus]

Yeah, Nixon was a shady dude. He also stopped the gold standard. The entire American financial system is sketchy if you look deeply into it.

They scam the entire world by printing a lot of their currency for nothing and then exporting those USD by buying up good and services abroad. This will only work so long as the USD is the global reserve currency, but once its stops being one... oh boy.

I think America's GDP is like 25% boosted by the USD. Their GDP per capita would be like Canada without it (-25% lower).

The more I look into America's governance, the more I see it's inevitable collapse if it does not remodel drastically. There are too many people who will not want that to happen so the US will remain propped up but never the same.

The Capitol riots instilled my sense of doom further. If a significant portion of the population not only distrust the very foundations of American governance, free elections, but violently attempt to disrupt it in a way that even the Confederates could not do, the future is not good. Once the illusion of strong governance or sanctity of the houses of parliament as an safer/strong institution is broken, nothing positive can ensue.

 

[Odayga_Jabuuti]

Maybe but then again, he hired Cheney as his VP and Rumsfeld as his Defence secretary, both of whom had a decades-long reputation for doing exactly what they did in the 2000's.

Even if I was to agree and say he was open-minded, he still had to build his government on a non-moderate Republican platform. What's the point of a moderate Republican president if the government in his name is not?

Yes but you can't deny that the republicans today are less progressive then during the Bush era.

I think that in the coming years, the republican party will look like Merkel's CDU.

 

[Periplus]

@Apollo this quote from the 1980's I will attach, from one of the Nixon strategists who devised the Southern Strategy, perfectly encapsulates my scepticism towards the centre-right. They're ingenious f*ckers.