What ethnicity was Ahmed Gurey?

[Air]

The most convincing case is made by the Karanle Hawiye, which lines up with the little we know of Ahmed Gurey. The only references that cite his tribe say he was Balaw, and that he was related to Garad Abun, the Garad of Hobat. Hobat is the centre and traditional capital of the Karanle Hawiye. Balaw is a clan of Karanle, and is the one that lives around Hobat.

The Futuh states that Ahmed Gurey began as a knight in Garaad Abun's army. Now, this doesn't mean that Ahmed Gurey was Hawiye, because it's also possible that Balaw became Hawiye later on, due to the process of clan assimilation, and may have been a separate and possibly not even Somali clan at the time, and became a Somali Hawiye clan later on. This is similar with the Walashma dynasty, who's Somali name is Wilinwili. The descendants that exist today trace to Ogaden, but this too may be an assimilation or that was always their descent.

This is exacerbated by the fact that in the middle ages there was no concept of a Somali nation, so if Ahmed Gurey traced his ancestry to Hawiye and the Walashma traced their ancestry to Ogaden, that didn't mean they considered themselves to be Somali, a nationalist concept that did not at the time exist. The "identity politics" at the time was very much around religion, with the two sides in the Futuh being clearly the Christians against the Muslims.

Thank your brother James Dahl. You seem to be very educated when it comes to the history, culture and archeology of the Horn of Africa. This is the type of replies and opinions you would hear only from an educated person. Once again thank you.

I hate uneducated emotional nomads who just talk nonsense.

 

[CanoGeel]

Thank your brother James Dahl. You seem to be very educated when it comes to the history, culture and archeology of the Horn of Africa. This is the type of replies and opinions you would hear only from an educated person. Once again thank you.

I hate uneducated emotional nomads who just talk nonsense.

yet ur response is somewhat emotional lol

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

This is exacerbated by the fact that in the middle ages there was no concept of a Somali nation, so if Ahmed Gurey traced his ancestry to Hawiye and the Walashma traced their ancestry to Ogaden, that didn't mean they considered themselves to be Somali, a nationalist concept that did not at the time exist. The "identity politics" at the time was very much around religion, with the two sides in the Futuh being clearly the Christians against the Muslims.

It's absurd to claim that because somali is used as a form of nationalism in our modern era that past somalis didn't consider themselves to be somali. If they didn't consider themselves to be somali what ethnicity did they believe they belonged to ? Somali is not a nationalist concept but an ethnic identity based on lineage, it's simple as that. Utilising the somali identity for nationalistic purposes doesn't negate it's meaning nor define it.

In the middle ages there was no concept of a hawiye or ogaden nation but this didn't stop them from identifying themselves as either hawiye or ogaden etc. If it didn't matter when it came to sub-tribes why would it matter when it concerns identifying as a somali ?

Yes i agree that during those times it was a case of muslims vs christians but this doesn't negate that people back then just like now still continue to identify themselves as somali. Both futuh al habash and ethiopian chronicles attest to this fact

Similarly we've a somali nation today but it has no impact nor does it stop any somali from identifying themselves by their sub-tribes.

 

[James Dahl]

There's not much evidence of this, nationalism as we currently understand it is a very modern phenomenon. Lineage of course is and was very important, but this would have been an extremely vague kinship beyond the Tol level, with marriage alliances playing a much larger role than vague notions of kinship. This era was still very feudal and tribal, nationalism is a form of state organization of mass participation, it is a politics of the post-1789 era of modernism.

 

[convincation]

Somali is not a nationalist concept but an ethnic identity based on lineage,

what common lineage do samaaale, saab a Yemeni and an Iraqi share

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

There's not much evidence of this, nationalism as we currently understand it is a very modern phenomenon. Lineage of course is and was very important, but this would have been an extremely vague kinship beyond the Tol level, with marriage alliances playing a much larger role than vague notions of kinship. This era was still very feudal and tribal, nationalism is a form of state organization of mass participation, it is a politics of the post-1789 era of modernism.

You were pushing forth the claim that past somalis despite claiming to be hawiye, ogaden etc didn't mean that they considered themselves to be somalis. According to you they couldn't identify as somali because there was no somali nation and that somali is a nationalistic concept formed in the modern era.

Such claims are very absurd as the same arguments you make also apply to the sub-tribe level of identification but this didn't stop them from identifying themselves by their sub-tribes back then.

We still prioritise our tol, jilib, reer, qoys, etc more than being somali but no one in their right mind claims because precedence is given to these levels of identification means that we don't consider ourselves to be somali.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

what common lineage do samaaale, saab a Yemeni and an Iraqi share

sxb meesha ciyaarta ka jooji baan ku iri.

War iska dhaaf samaale iyo saab this guy is claiming that we didn't know which ethnicity we belonged to ?

Cay intas ka weyn majirta sxb

 

[convincation]

sxb meesha ciyaarta ka jooji baan ku iri.

War iska dhaaf samaale iyo saab this guy is claiming that we didn't know which ethnicity we belonged to ?

Cay intas ka weyn majirta sxb

Somali isn’t an ethnicity it’s a common language shared by many ethnicities like the hawiye ethnic group, the darood ethnic group, the rahanweyn ethnic group, the Madowweyne ethnic group etc

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

Nephew of Ahmed Gurey was a Somali.
Tradition testifies Emir Nur Mujahid was from Somali-Darod tribe of Marehan"

You can read the journal piece here;

Amharische Geschichte eines Emirs von Harar im XVI. Jahrhundert on JSTOR

Kurt Wendt, Amharische Geschichte eines Emirs von Harar im XVI. Jahrhundert, Orientalia, NOVA SERIES, Vol. 4 (1935), pp. 484-501

www.jstor.org

The German got the complete name of Emir Nur down saying he is;

Nur Ali Abdullahi of ad-Dhuha Suha/Marehan

Marehan have his abtirsi down as

Nur Ali Abdullahi Nur Yusuf Mataan Ciis Ahmed Mohamed Da'ud Abadir of reer Hodanbari/Mareexaan.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person= ... irsiLang=1

Notice his family surname is listed as ad-Dhuha Suha family in the German piece and in Marehan geneology he is part of reer Hodanbari

Dhuha = morning
Suha: beautiful/amazing

Hodan: wealthy/amazing (dhulkaan waa hodan)
Bari ; daybreak/early morning (nabad ku bari)

The family name is basically "waking up to a beautiful, vibrant morning" or "morning light"

There's other sources independent of this that are from the 1970s that state he is Marehan. Marehan inherited the Adal Sultanate after the Imam's death. Emir Nur's descendants, the Ina Nur guarded his tomb in Harar to this day.

 

[Qeelbax]

I would say
85% chance hes somali
15% he’s harari
0% chance oromo/xabashi
-♾% yemeni
Every other gurey on wiki is somali.
Aden Ali Gurey was Dblock
Adrn Gurey Maxamed Cabdille, a famous poet from Dusmareb, probably hawiye not sure though

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

We must have identified as Somali. We prabibaly saw Oromo and Afar speakers, and so we must have had a Somali identity for thousands of years.

 

[Qeelbax]

Somali isn’t an ethnicity it’s a common language shared by many ethnicities like the hawiye ethnic group, the darood ethnic group, the rahanweyn ethnic group, the Madowweyne ethnic group etc

 

[Psychologist]

just open his grave and do a dna test on him, end of story

 

[Psychologist]

Somali isn’t an ethnicity it’s a common language shared by many ethnicities like the hawiye ethnic group, the darood ethnic group, the rahanweyn ethnic group, the Madowweyne ethnic group etc

What drugs are you taking?

 

[HiraanBorn]

Somali isn’t an ethnicity it’s a common language shared by many ethnicities like the hawiye ethnic group, the darood ethnic group, the rahanweyn ethnic group, the Madowweyne ethnic group etc

Ethnicity is defined by a shared common language, culture and descent. So I have no idea what you're on about, if you don't have anything intelligent to say don't say it. Most Somali clans have a common descent from Irir Samaale and Sab.

 

[ZizuFlyer]

Xarla was somali because they were Xarla Kombe related to Geri Kombe.

He was 100% Somali.

Him being non Somali is being peddled by Amhara pathological liars who want to erase Somali from history and claim we are new commers to our lands.

Just like amhara racists claim Tigrayans were not Axumites.

Oromos came from Madagascar.
In other words the Confederate amhara ethnic groups want to propagate historical falacies even they claim they are descendants of Solomon and Sheba and also they claim Lalilbela who was the last Agew King deposed.

The harla kombe later mixed with Ethiopians and ottomans and their culture kinda looks like the Turkic culture

 

[ZizuFlyer]

He was a Somali man, surrounded by Somalis and had Somali family, born in a Somali city and ruled a Somali empire, Adal was majority Somali

lol

 

[Velocity]

The most convincing case is made by the Karanle Hawiye, which lines up with the little we know of Ahmed Gurey. The only references that cite his tribe say he was Balaw, and that he was related to Garad Abun, the Garad of Hobat. Hobat is the centre and traditional capital of the Karanle Hawiye. Balaw is a clan of Karanle, and is the one that lives around Hobat.

The Futuh states that Ahmed Gurey began as a knight in Garaad Abun's army. Now, this doesn't mean that Ahmed Gurey was Hawiye, because it's also possible that Balaw became Hawiye later on, due to the process of clan assimilation, and may have been a separate and possibly not even Somali clan at the time, and became a Somali Hawiye clan later on. This is similar with the Walashma dynasty, who's Somali name is Wilinwili. The descendants that exist today trace to Ogaden, but this too may be an assimilation or that was always their descent.

This is exacerbated by the fact that in the middle ages there was no concept of a Somali nation, so if Ahmed Gurey traced his ancestry to Hawiye and the Walashma traced their ancestry to Ogaden, that didn't mean they considered themselves to be Somali, a nationalist concept that did not at the time exist. The "identity politics" at the time was very much around religion, with the two sides in the Futuh being clearly the Christians against the Muslims.

Yep you’ve done your homework.

He is indeed 100% Balaw Sixawle Karanle Hawiye from Hobat . Furthermore I would like to add that the relatives of the imaam are still alive and are doing well enjoying a very special and privilege maqaam in the old saintly city of Harar.

 

[Velocity]

Hit the nail on the head. I was one of the few with a team of dedicated Hagites who found that excerpt from Tekletsadik, the Idaajaa of Ethiopia. Hawiye wax uma quuraan dadkaan let them keep denying the obvious and congrats to Beesha Karanle for celebrating their hereos in Kenya, claims by other clans will just be a claim like the Turks, Arabs, Harari, Afar etc none of these people will ever come together to validate it.

Yep the only family that can come together collectively and validate it. The rest just talk

 

[convincation]

Ethnicity is defined by a shared common language, culture and descent. So I have no idea what you're on about, if you don't have anything intelligent to say don't say it. Most Somali clans have a common descent from Irir Samaale and Sab.

Key word there is most. 2 of the largest “Somali” clans don’t decend from irir or even samaale as a whole but are yemeni and Iraqi In origin. So what common decent do “somalis” share other than language we don’t even have the same culture. That’s the reason why Somalia is a hell hole, it’s too ethnically diverse