Were the original Nubians Cushitic?

Apollo

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If so why do so many of these afrocentric weirdos say that they were nilotes :drakewtf:
Sub-Saharan Africa lacks great ancient civilizations. Nubia was the only really impressive one.

Obviously, SSAs from all over will claim it. It is too predictable and obvious why people do it.

I think they were originally nilotics
They were similar to Bejas and present-day Nubians.

This is not even up for debate, already settled by many studies.
 
They speak a Nilo-Saharan language, and Ancient Egyptians depicted them as being very black & negroid looking, so people think they were Nilotes. It’s not hard to understand why.
 

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Sub-Saharan Africa lacks great ancient civilizations. Nubia was the only really impressive one.

Obviously, SSAs from all over will claim it. It is too predictable and obvious why people do it.



They were similar to Bejas and present-day Nubians.

This is not even up for debate, already settled by many studies.
You’re wrong my brother they were black negros just like the ancient Egyptians, romans, Israelites, Mayans, Persians and greeks
 

Apollo

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They speak a Nilo-Saharan language, and Ancient Egyptians depicted them as being very black & negroid looking, so people think they were Nilotes. It’s not hard to understand why.
Ancient Egyptian murals were propagandistic (they hated Nubia) and always in the same style. It is not realistic.

They cluster with present-day Bejas and Nubians and everyone knows how Bejas and modern Nubians look like.
 
Ancient Egyptian murals were propagandistic (they hated Nubia) and always in the same style. It is not realistic.

They cluster with present-day Bejas and Nubians and everyone knows how Bejas and modern Nubians look like.
Yeah I agree, genetics doesn’t lie. But if I just saw depictions & knew that they speak a Nilo-Saharan language, I would just assume they were nilotic too.
 
Ancient Egyptian murals were propagandistic (they hated Nubia) and always in the same style. It is not realistic.

They cluster with present-day Bejas and Nubians and everyone knows how Bejas and modern Nubians look like.
I am confusion on how they speak a Nilo Saharan language now tho? What happend?
 

Apollo

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I am confusion on how they speak a Nilo Saharan language now tho? What happend?
Language shift, like how Habeshas shifted to a foreign language group from Arabia without changing too much.

Or like Hungarians.. they speak a Central Asian language, but are ancestrally like Austrians/Czechs/Slovaks.
 
Linguistic evidence also strongly indicates that Cushitic languages were spoken in Lower Nubia, an ancient region which straddles present day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, before the arrival of North Eastern Sudanic languages in the Middle Nile Valley.

Cooper, Julien (2017) "Toponymic Strata in Ancient Nubia Until the Common Era," Dotawo: A Journal of Nubian Studies: Vol. 4 , Article 3
 

MI

Ted Kaczynski respecter
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Nubia, much like Sudan today, was a very diverse place. Even the ancient Egyptians recognized this and depicted them as both red-skinned and black-skinned (though it should be noted that almost every depiction of Nubians had them with facial features that set them apart from Egyptians) . I personally believe there was two distinct populations in Nubia, and this is backed by much evidence, the northern part of Nubia being closely related to Beja people & the southern part being mostly Nilotic in character. The northern element dominated during the pharaonic period while the Nilotic element dominated during the graeco-roman period into the Christian Nubian kingdoms. I believe that with the fall of Napata so too did the old Cushitic element of the Nubian civilization disappear.
 
View attachment 73379 View attachment 73380 View attachment 73381 Nubia, much like Sudan today, was a very diverse place. Even the ancient Egyptians recognized this and depicted them as both red-skinned and black-skinned (though it should be noted that almost every depiction of Nubians had them with facial features that set them apart from Egyptians) . I personally believe there was two distinct populations in Nubia, and this is backed by much evidence, the northern part of Nubia being closely related to Beja people & the southern part being mostly Nilotic in character. The northern element dominated during the pharaonic period while the Nilotic element dominated during the graeco-roman period into the Christian Nubian kingdoms. I believe that with the fall of Napata so too did the old Cushitic element of the Nubian civilization disappear.
There is no doubt that Nubia consisted of two distinct races. One which were related to and resembled the reddish tone of the Ancient Egyptians and one which were purely Nilotic 'Dinka' types. They were the ones often depicted by the Ancient Egyptians because they made up a huge bulk of the slaves, armies etc.

Nilotic 'Dinka' type Nubian:


Cushitic Nubian:


Other Cushitic Nubians:
 

Apollo

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Staff Member
View attachment 73379 View attachment 73380 View attachment 73381 Nubia, much like Sudan today, was a very diverse place. Even the ancient Egyptians recognized this and depicted them as both red-skinned and black-skinned (though it should be noted that almost every depiction of Nubians had them with facial features that set them apart from Egyptians) . I personally believe there was two distinct populations in Nubia, and this is backed by much evidence, the northern part of Nubia being closely related to Beja people & the southern part being mostly Nilotic in character. The northern element dominated during the pharaonic period while the Nilotic element dominated during the graeco-roman period into the Christian Nubian kingdoms. I believe that with the fall of Napata so too did the old Cushitic element of the Nubian civilization disappear.
Ancient North Sudan was the homeland of the Cushites. These Nilotes only pushed northwards relatively late in history.
 
Ancient North Sudan was the homeland of the Cushites. These Nilotes only pushed northwards relatively late in history.
Huh? Nilotic people lived within the Nubian Kingdoms and even until recently Nilotes inhabited Central Sudan
 

MI

Ted Kaczynski respecter
Ancient North Sudan was the homeland of the Cushites. These Nilotes only pushed northwards relatively late in history.
I think so too but without records of indigenous script or being able to test the ancient remains... It seems a likely theory. Nothing conclusive.
 

Apollo

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Huh? Nilotic people lived within the Nubian Kingdoms and even until recently Nilotes inhabited Central Sudan
Have you not seen that study of Ancient Cushites in Kenya?

If you remove their Eastern Forager admixture (which is specific to Ethiopia and Kenya, was acquired there, and could not have come from North Sudan), they would have been 70% MENA-like and only 30% NS-like. Also, the researchers placed their hypothesized source population as being more MENA-like than themselves and claim it came from Northern Sudan or Egypt.

Therefore, populations like the aforementioned already lived in Northern Sudan 6,000 years ago, thousands of years before the Nubian civilization.
 
Have you not seen that genetic study of Ancient Cushites in Kenya?

If you remove their Eastern Forager admixture (which is specific to Ethiopia and Kenya and could not have come from North Sudan), they would have been 70% MENA-like and only 30% NS-like. Also, the researchers placed their hypothesized source population as being more MENA-like than themselves and claim it came from Northern Sudan or Egypt.

Therefore, populations like the aforementioned already lived in Northern Sudan 6,000 years ago, thousands of years before the Nubian civilization.
Yes but whats the proof they made up the majority? There’s no doubt that Nilotic people inhabited that region before they even came to existence
 

Apollo

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Yes but whats the proof they made up the majority? There’s no doubt that Nilotic people inhabited that region before they even came to existence
Present-day populations =/= Ancient populations in the same location.

All those Ancient DNA studies from Europe have proven this, and even the handful coming from Africa also proved it.

For now, I am leaning towards Ancient North Sudan being more Cushitic-like than it is today. Nowadays, it is more Nilo-Saharan and Arabian influenced due to post-Cushitic movements.
 

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