We need a monarchy

[World]

I admit there were hybrid systems, some more centralised and others more decentralised. What you are describing is probably the Dhulbahante experience. However, the Ogaden sultanate of Jubaland was different. The Sultan ruled with a council of elders made up of the hereditary heads of the subclans who were in turn answerable to their people. But that's the beauty of this confederal monarchy. If Dhulbahante want a loose system in their monarchy, they can do so.

What on earth is the Ogaden sultanate of Jubbaland?

The Mohamed Zubeyr and Aulihan were fierce rivals that fought each other just as much as they fought Marehan.

The Aulihan were divided between South and North, you had the North Aulihan ruled by Hajji 'Abdurrahman Mursaal who fought against the British, whilst the South Aulihan were not interested.

 

[Gaandheri]

The Somali state has been a failure since 1960 contrary to most people’s belief it failed in 1991. The failure of 1960 was what led to the Kacaan of 1969 which was meant to address the problems the country had. The “solution” ended up being worse than the problem and eventually failed in 1991. Since then, Somalis have been trying to fix their failed state but every strategy has failed. I argue the reason for that is simple, the original formation of the state was doomed to fail.

In 1960 Somalis inherited a European state given a veneer of Somalinimo. All state institutions and organs were modelled on the European states. The only thing Somali about the 1960 state were the names of the officials running it (they too were European on the inside as they were nearly all educated and indoctrinated by the Europeans hence why they even dressed like them). This enforced state structure was totally alien to Somali norms and ways of living. This is why I term it the Madhalays or infertile republic. Ultimately this alien state structure just wouldn’t work and ended in abject failure.

For Somalia to be a normal country, we need to stop arguing about peripheral matters such as the powers of the states vs centre, and ask ourselves more fundamental questions. We need to go back to the drawing board. We need to reject the European state model that was imposed upon us in 1960 by the colonisers and decide upon a state structure in line with our culture, norms, and history. To do that, we need to return to the state structure that existed prior to colonisation and then upgrade it to fit with the modern world.

Somalia is a clan-based society. No matter how much those that have been indoctrinated by European philosophy argue, qabiil is not going away. It is an integral part of our psyche and social fabric. To be Somali is to be a part of the Somali clan system, no ifs no buts.

Prior to colonisation, the Somali peninsula was divided into a variety of organic, stable clan-based fiefdoms and sultanates with varying degrees of power and autonomy. No matter how much power they were able to project, they all had legitimacy in the eyes of their subjects. Even though only one family had the right to inherit the tribal crown, all other subclans were willing to accept their legitimacy to rule in exchange for being part of the ruling councils. The qabiil monarchs reigned, but it was actually their subclan councils that ruled. What we need to do, is return to these clan based territories and unite them on the national level.

We need a return of the Ogaden sultanate in Jubaland, the Eelaay Kingdom of KG, the Hiraab Imamate, the Xawaadle Ugasate, the Majeerteen sultanate, the Warsangeli Sultanate, the Dhulbahante Garadate, and the Iiddoor sultanate under Habar Yonis. Then we need a confederal monarchy similar to the UAE where we will decide what powers and responsibilities to share on the national level (defence, foreign policy etc). How each qabiil monarchy runs its territory outside of that will be down to them. If the Warsangeli sultanate decide to opt for a constitutional monarchy with democratic elections every 5 years, that’s up to them. If the Ogaden Sultanate decide to slash taxes and open up to foreign trade and investment and lease their islands, that’s their prerogative.

Some tribal areas will naturally refuse to join sultanates they were previously apart of prior to colonisation such as Habar Gidir and the Majeerteen sultanate. That is fine. Habar Gedir territory will be declared a tribal area and they can decide how they want to structure their area. They can share it amicably or fight a 100 year war. Point is, it won’t affect the rest of us.

The UAE model can work but that would mean Mogadishu and Hargeisa taking POTS and VP or president, vice, PM, deputy PM can be distributed between hawiye, darod, dir, rahanweyn while senate and parliament is left for the minority.

Btw their was no such thing as Ogaden sultanate in jubaland it was ruled by ajuuran, gababweyn, then geledi sultanate.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I admit there were hybrid systems, some more centralised and others more decentralised. What you are describing is probably the Dhulbahante experience. However, the Ogaden sultanate of Jubaland was different. The Sultan ruled with a council of elders made up of the hereditary heads of the subclans who were in turn answerable to their people. But that's the beauty of this confederal monarchy. If Dhulbahante want a loose system in their monarchy, they can do so.

I will accept if I am wrong but respectfully the type of monarchy you are describing simply didn't exist post Adal and Ajuraan.

These clan sultanates were not ruled by a king in the sense that a foreigner would recognise as such- they did not have even de facto absolute authority, they did not collect tax or impose their decisions.

As mentioned before, most of the current things being called 'sultanates' are of recent origin. There are not many qabiils who have a long running and ancient dynasty let alone ones where they exercised some sort of power of their own.

An example to prove this is the Majeerteen ruler Osman Mahamuud was considered wild for trying to convert the older model of Boqor into an actual kingship by creating an independent army separate from calling up the Majeerteen waranle and attempting taxation even if it was mainly on foreign merchants.

You make some points but some of the details are a bit off and your list of example qabiil dynasties are a combo of things that are quite different in their history and the actual authority they exerted.

The Somali Suldaan does not have the same meaning as Sultan in English or Arabic even if they share the title.

Also people talking about these qabiil polities like they are the be all and end all is very ahistorical most of them are a reaction to the collapse of our actual states- they were a survival mechanism!

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Jubaland being diverse is a myth. There are clear land territory demarcations. Everyone knows where Mx live, Ogaden live, Rx live etc. Don't let online propaganda fool you.

Badhaadda and kismaayo is claimed by Majerteen. Dir under the Al shabab card control Jilib, Bu'ale and Jamaame and want to create a new state called Ufibland in Jubaland. Isaaq Due also claim that some Tolomuge Ogaden sub clans are Gadabursi and they have Aliance, stop this the Juba is only Harti and Ogaden myth. Most rer Isaaq Ogaden like Cumar Jees consider themself more Isaaq than Ogaden.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Badhaadda and kismaayo is claimed by Majerteen. Dir under the Al shabab card control Jilib, Bu'ale and Jamaame and want to create a new state called Ufibland in Jubaland. Isaaq Due also claim that some Tolomuge Ogaden sub clans are Gadabursi and they have Aliance, stop this the Juba is only Harti and Ogaden myth. Most rer Isaaq Ogaden like Cumar Jees consider themself more Isaaq than Ogaden.

100% absolute madness for anyone to say Jubbaland is Harti and Ogaden only there's so many clans that live there not to mention the OGs Rahanweyn and as you mentioned a lot of different Dir sections are present

 

[World]

I will accept if I am wrong but respectfully the type of monarchy you are describing simply didn't exist post Adal and Ajuraan.

These clan sultanates were not ruled by a king in the sense that a foreigner would recognise as such- they did not have even de facto absolute authority, they did not collect tax or impose their decisions.

As mentioned before, most of the current things being called 'sultanates' are of recent origin. There are not many qabiils who have a long running and ancient dynasty let alone ones where they exercised some sort of power of their own.

An example to prove this is the Majeerteen ruler Osman Mahamuud was considered wild for trying to convert the older model of Boqor into an actual kingship by creating an independent army separate from calling up the Majeerteen waranle and attempting taxation even if it was mainly on foreign merchants.

You make some points but some of the details are a bit off and your list of example qabiil dynasties are a combo of things that are quite different in their history and the actual authority they exerted.

The Somali Suldaan does not have the same meaning as Sultan in English or Arabic even if they share the title.

I agree but it was not Sultan Osman Mahmoud who implemented the tax, but his father. Plus is it was not on foreign merchants, but everyone.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

My bad I was mistaken but you take the point it was controversial and unprecedented.

I agree but it was not Sultan Osman Mahmoud who implemented the tax, but his father. Plus is it was not on foreign merchants, but everyone.

View attachment 320796

 

[GemState]

The UAE works because Abu Dhabi is 70% of the country and basically funds the rest of the country. We don't have an equivalent.

We don't have oil and we're not Malaysia where each of the sultanates are very rich in resources.

Somalia's #1 problem is resource scarcity, and this can only be rectified through scale(Somaliweyn) and extremely high centralization, but runs up a wall of the reality of a tribal society, and causes conflict. That is the conundrum with us.

 

[GemState]

Somalis should really try to build up rapport with Muslim Oromo, Afar, Amhara, etc. Long shot, but a Muslim HoA state would be the ideal, both economically, demographically and politically.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

I'm convinced a Kritarcy or dicatorship is best form of governance for Somalia.

 

[Abaq]

What on earth is the Ogaden sultanate of Jubbaland?

The Mohamed Zubeyr and Aulihan were fierce rivals that fought each other just as much as they fought Marehan.

The Aulihan were divided between South and North, you had the North Aulihan ruled by Hajji 'Abdurrahman Mursaal who fought against the British, whilst the South Aulihan were not interested.

I quote:

“Even as late as 1895 the political structure of the Ogaden could be described
as, a limited monarchy, composed of a sultan with has council of sheiks or chieftains of sub clans, and bears a resemblance to that of the Sovereign and nobles of early British history. The wealthy lords hold the offices of Prime Minister, Chief Judge, Commander in Chief and so forth by reason of the strength of their following and their own social position. The tenure of their offices, land and property generally is to a great extent feudal.”

The Pastoral Tribes of Northern Kenya 1800-1916. ER Turton

If you and @Sufyan and anyone else want to educate themselves about the Ogaden sultanate of Jubaland, read that book. I haven't got time to educate people who don't even know the history of their own country yet they have the arrogance to have an opinion on its structure

 

[Abaq]

Badhaadda and kismaayo is claimed by Majerteen. Dir under the Al shabab card control Jilib, Bu'ale and Jamaame and want to create a new state called Ufibland in Jubaland. Isaaq Due also claim that some Tolomuge Ogaden sub clans are Gadabursi and they have Aliance, stop this the Juba is only Harti and Ogaden myth. Most rer Isaaq Ogaden like Cumar Jees consider themself more Isaaq than Ogaden.

In Jubaland, you have Mareexaan north of Baardheere and West of the river, Ogaden/Absame south of Bardheere and West of the river up until Kismayo and the Kenyan border, Eelaay/Rx East of the river till Jilib. South of Jilib East of the river is Biyomaal/Tunni. The Kismayo area was historically Harti. Since indepence, you had the Cawramale and Gaaljecel move into Jubaland and cross the river to the West. They have villages in the Kismayo area and in badhaadhe, however they are a minority. You also have Sheekhaal present in Lower Jubba who originally came with the Ogaden liberators of the land in the 1850s (the Ogaden-Sheekhaal relationship especially Aw Qudub is an old one and not new). You also have Bantu along the river in agricultural villages.

As of today, when we talk about the West bank of the river, from Luuq to Kismayo, the biggest tribes are Ogaden and Marexan with some Harti in the Kismayo area. All the rest are minorities or confined to small geographical areas (such as the Bantu being strictly along the river only).

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

In Jubaland, you have Mareexaan north of Baardheere and West of the river, Ogaden/Absame south of Bardheere and West of the river up until Kismayo and the Kenyan border, Eelaay/Rx East of the river till Jilib. South of Jilib East of the river is Biyomaal/Tunni. The Kismayo area was historically Harti. Since indepence, you had the Cawramale and Gaaljecel move into Jubaland and cross the river to the West. They have villages in the Kismayo area and in badhaadhe, however they are a minority. You also have Sheekhaal present in Lower Jubba who originally came with the Ogaden liberators of the land in the 1850s (the Ogaden-Sheekhaal relationship especially Aw Qudub is an old one and not new). You also have Bantu along the river in agricultural villages.

As of today, when we talk about the West bank of the river, from Luuq to Kismayo, the biggest tribes are Ogaden and Marexan with some Harti in the Kismayo area. All the rest are minorities or confined to small geographical areas (such as the Bantu being strictly along the river only).

Thanks to Madoobe Dir today control Buale, Jilib, basically middle Juba and Jamaame. I saw this youtube clip of Dir Tolomuge politician meeting with Somaliland Dir . No wonder Faraax macalim was ousted.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Thanks to Madoobe Dir today control Buale, Jilib, basically middle Juba and Jamaame. I saw this youtube clip of Dir Tolomuge politician meeting with Somaliland Dir . No wonder Faraax macalim was ousted.

There's Ciise that are controlling Middle Juba and Jamaame? Or do you mean Madaluug?

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

There's Ciise that are controlling Middle Juba and Jamaame? Or do you mean Madaluug?

No

There's Ciise that are controlling Middle Juba and Jamaame? Or do you mean Madaluug?

I mean Al shabab sponsored rer Somaliland backed by UAE .

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

No

I mean Al shabab sponsored rer Somaliland backed by UAE .

My bad I read your sentence as Madoobe Dir instead of the guy Madoobe lol

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

My bad I read your sentence as Madoobe Dir instead of the guy Madoobe lol

All of Madoobe advices are Dir, today Somaliland Dir has more power in Kismaayo than Harti. Cumar Jees crew have always been Pro Somaliland, Madoobe was instaoled by Somaliland.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

All of Madoobe advices are Dir, today Somaliland Dir has more power in Kismaayo than Harti. Cumar Jees crew have always been Pro Somaliland, Madoobe was instaoled by Somaliland.

I didn't know it was like that lol What is the aim of these people?

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

I didn't know it was like that lol What is the aim of these people?

I know your happy as a Sameroon ☺ basically Darood isku karbassh, put in power Caghjar Dir sub clan and put anti SSC Khatumo admistration to lead Jubaland

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Huh what do you mean 'Caghjar Dir sub' is he not Ogaden?

I'm neutral sxb and my relatives Gadabuursi aren't happy lol they're not xasid like that.

No he is Habar yomus. I bet you people like @Abaq and Madoobe are not aware of this, cagli 6 saac.