Was Somalia a country before 1960?

[jabsveg276]

It was an interesting debate on Clubhouse.

Was Somalia a country before 1960 or western colonization? Were Somalis ever under 1 country historically? Or under 1 government? Their have been different countries such as “Adal Sultanate”, but it only had a few Somali clans and did not represent a majority of Somalis.

Thoughts?

 

[jabsveg276]

We didn’t have our own flag, exact borders or a county that had a flag and a government that represented all Somalis and Somali clans. So waa Somalia a counter before 1960?

 

[exposedmeat]

NO but there was powerful empires

 

[jabsveg276]

Somalis never occupied 1 specific region, we are nomadic. We’ve also never had a government that represented all clans. (Before 1960)

 

[exposedmeat]

this was darawishda calankooda, unique ngl

 

[jabsveg276]

NO but there was powerful empires

Aren’t empires just countries under a different name?

 

[exposedmeat]

and this ajuran empire

 

[jabsveg276]

and this ajuran empire
View attachment 182274

But it only represented a few Somali clans, not all Somalis

 

[exposedmeat]

I think the darawishda represented all Somalis because all kind of clans were in the fight against colonizers

 

[pirater]

sad fact but somalis as an ethnicity was never all united into one country

 

[BetterDaysAhead]

We had empires and sultanates

 

[jabsveg276]

We had empires and sultanates

But they only represented a minority of Somalis, not all Somalis

 

[jabsveg276]

sad fact but somalis as an ethnicity was never all united into one country

We only recently became one country, and it ended it up a huge civil war. Since Somalis are nomadic, is it just in our DNA to split apart and be within our tribes? I wonder what would happen if each Somali tribe became its own country (Dir, Darood, Isaaq, Xawiye etc), after a few hundred or thousands of years, would we be different ethnicities?

 

[Hassan11]

We only recently became one country, and it ended it up a huge civil war. Since Somalis are nomadic, is it just in our DNA to split apart and be within our tribes? I wonder what would happen if each Somali tribe became its own country (Dir, Darood, Isaaq, Xawiye etc), after a few hundred or thousands of years, would we be different ethnicities?

Idk how Daroods would create a country when they don’t like eachother and live in different parts of Somaliweyn

 

[Kanan]

No we weren't. Roaming nomads obsessed with petty camel raids and water wells. Few merchant communities on the coast failed to establish a central government over the Somali peninsula. We did not possess a unfied ideology nor powerful visionary leaders.

Arabs were just like us till Mohamed SACW unified All Arab tribes into a single state. They went ahead and quickly overrun nearby empires.


Had we united in a single state we could probably take over nearby Xabashi kingdoms and "Somalize" them like Arabs who spread their language to Levant and North Africa.


Xabashis have great advantage with their mountainous geography, they occupied relatively small landmass and lived fairly nearby. Somalis were scattered on massive arid area, lower in population density than Xabashis and harder to enforce or administer effectively.


We lacked good leadership and powerful allies. Islamic Ottoman & Omanis were on the decline while Christian powers were on the rise. The devastating defeat of Italians in Adwa gave Ethiopians international prestige and rival powers particularly British, France and Russians competed against each others to win Ethiopia's favor.

So in short, no. We did not have a unified Somali state due to geography & weak leadership. Our best shot was the Somali republic end up in flames 30 years after independence.

 

[jabsveg276]

No we weren't. Roaming nomads obsessed with petty camel raids and water wells. Few merchant communities on the coast failed to establish a central government over the Somali peninsula. We did not possess a unfied ideology nor powerful visionary leaders.

Arabs were just like us till Mohamed SACW unified All Arab tribes into a single state. They went ahead and quickly overrun nearby empires.


Had we united in a single state we could probably take over nearby Xabashi kingdoms and "Somalize" them.


Xabashis have great advantage with their mountainous geography, they occupied relatively small landmass and lived fairely nearby. Somalis were scattered on massive area, lower in population density than Xabashis.


We lacked leadership and powerful allies. Islamic Ottoman & Omanis were on the decline while Christian powers were on the rise. The devastating defeat of Italians in Adwa gave Ethiopians international prestige and rival powers particularly British, Franche and Russians competed against eachothers to win Ethiopia's favour.

So in short, no. We did not have a unified Somali state due to geography & weak leadership. Our best shot was the Somali republic end up in flames 30 years after independence.

If that's true, how come the Somali ethnicity is always pure? Usually 95-99% amongst all Somalis. Since we are nomads, why aren't we more "mixed"?

 

[Kanan]

If that's true, how come the Somali ethnicity is always pure? Usually 95-99% amongst all Somalis. Since we are nomads, why aren't we more "mixed"?

We kicked out Galla (Oromo) from Somali peninsula and did not mix with them that's why. Habashis mixed with Oromos and many other ethnic groups who embraced the Xabashi identity. Haile Selassie is one of those Oromo converted to Amhara that's why they are heavily mixed and come in all shapes.

In comparison Somalis are relatively homogeneous. We got some Bantu, Barwani, Reer Xamar and smaller other groups yet we do not intermarry on the same scale.

 

[Aurelian]

We kicked out Galla (Oromo) from Somali peninsula and did not mix with them that's why. Habashis mixed with with Oromos and smaller ethnic groups who embraced the Xabashi identity. Haile Selassie is one of those Oromo converted to Amhara that's why they are heavily mixed and come in all shapes.

In comparison Somalis are relatively homogeneous. We got some Bantu, Barwani, Reer Xamar and smaller other groups yet we do not intermarry on the same scale.

kick them out? when that happened if they weren't in Somalia before?

 

[Aurelian]

If that's true, how come the Somali ethnicity is always pure? Usually 95-99% amongst all Somalis. Since we are nomads, why aren't we more "mixed"?

Xenophobia, which the norm to everyone back then, you simply will not marry or allow your kids to marry someone strange.

 

[Kanan]

kick them out? when that happened if they weren't in Somalia before?

All of Somalia was inhabited by Oromo. We were small nomadic group emerging from Southern Ethiopia and gradually conquered the Somali peninsula from Oromo. By the time of Adal & Abyssinian wars both Somalis and Xabashis were exhausted by war efforts. The oromo resurfaced from Northern Kenya and conquered both Somalis and Xabashis.

This lead to a butterfly effect where two large groups of Oromo split from each others embarking different paths. The Eastern Oromo retained their identity, language & culture while the western Oromo adopted Xabashi identity.