USC failed miserably, but what about SNM?

[Canuck]

Well if isn't the websites crazy old lady. Have u remember to take your medications. Why don't u look after your cats and talk to them about your so long ago youth.

Something else barre was supporting Oromo and Eritreans at that time. The price of SNM was barre stopped funding the Ethiopian opposition groups.

 

[xisaabiye]

This was when the SNM was first founded in England, before Siad Barre even targeted Isaaq, before the SNM even began any operations and before Siad Barre had to rely on MOD. Even so, the Ogaden were also the ones who founded the SPM, the second strongest rebel group.

The day SNM was formed, it was a movement fighting for the sake of tribalism.

Jubair ibn Mut’im reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “He is not one of us who calls to tribalism. He is not one of us who fights for the sake of tribalism. He is not one of us who dies following the way of tribalism.”

Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 5121

"Subsequent Isaaq propaganda(poems, radio broadcasts) to mobilize their population was filled with a most vile, abusive and racist language against the Daarood people. Demonstrations held by students in Isaaq cities like Hargeysa and Burco were notable for the vile anti-Daarood slogans chanted by the participants. It became soon became fairly obvious to anti-government Daarood students that the Isaaqs were not so much anti-government as they were anti-Daarood."

Wrong, completely fallacious. Isaaq were a target in the late 70's, literally right after the ogadeen war. SNM was formed years after due to that very reason.

 

[Bahal]

Wrong, completely fallacious. Isaaq were a target in the late 70's, literally right after the ogadeen war. SNM was formed years after due to that very reason.

Oh come on, have you ever heard of Gen Habane and Dhagaweyne, two Isaaq officers in command of Mudug who committed atrocities against the Majerteen in the late 70s-early 80s?

 

[jugjugwacwac]

A lot of my fellow Isaaqs are upset that I spoke against the SNM. Listen guys, I'm not against the USC, SSDF and SNM rebellions because I support Siyaad Barre. Like I said no ruler has a divine right to rule over others. This isn't medieval Europe where they used to believe in the Divine Right of Kings doctrine. So I don't find anything wrong with ambitious men who want to seize power. I may not support them if i think the current ruler is better, but at least I'll understand that they have a right to challenge the ruler for power. But what I'll never understand and never support is various rebel groups who will not unite into one nationalist umbrella, do not have a plan for the country and do not have enough might to take power with very little bloodshed.

Siyaad Barre had many faults. If the USC, SSDF, SNM and SPM united into one nationalist front, took power with little bloodshed via a coup or something similar and then resumed normal governance then of course I would support them. But they did none of that. So let's not argue about why the SNM rebelled and if it was justified, because a group doesn't even need a good reason to try and take the reigns of power. Power itself is enough of a justification. But I don't support the SNM nor any of the other rebel groups because they failed in the three conditions I've outlined above, resulting in us being in a worse position than we could ever imagine being while under Siyaad.

 

[xisaabiye]

Oh come on, have you ever heard of Gen Habane and Dhagaweyne, two Isaaq officers in command of Mudug who committed atrocities against the Majerteen in the late 70s-early 80s?

I admitted to that, so what? There were Isaaq generals who supported the kacaan till the bitter end

Edit: Are you implying that just because Barre used these two generals in mudug, that Isaaq wasnt targeted in the late 70's

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I admitted to that, so what? There were Isaaq generals who supported the kacaan till the bitter end

Didn't they both join SNM anyway? One of them is part of Somaliland's administration today.

 

[Bahal]

I admitted to that, so what? There were Isaaq generals who supported the kacaan till the bitter end

Edit: Are you implying that just because Barre used these two generals in mudug, that Isaaq wasnt targeted in the late 70's

Yes, that is exactly what I'm implying.

There's a reason they joined the SNM well after those unfortunate incidents.

 

[Professor]

Seek help man!!!!! I know all these info because my family worked for the government.

Listen crazy. Number 1 snm are not traitors because siad barre stole power from an , unfortunately corrupt, Democratic party. So there actions are justified due to the government they were fighting previously establishing the state through a coup detat. Thus the game had no rules. The Ogaden war was nothing then a proxy war commenced by siad to consolidate his power and to force his critics to get in line. Similar to what thatcher did with the Falklands, to inspire a sense of nationalism so she didn't lose the election. The k5 were an ethiopian group that were relying on the ancestral enemy to oust mengistu. The difference between them and the snm was that the wanted complete power whereas somaliland wanted succession based on proper grounds. the northerners agreed to join in a union with the south but once you attacked and murdered us we desired to return to British somaliland. It is natural to look for allies regardless of who they are when you are fighting for your freedom. Just accept somalia is weak because you guys are incompetent not us.

 

[xisaabiye]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm implying.

There's a reason they joined the SNM well after those unfortunate incidents.

So when dabar goynta Isaaqa was formed by the ogaden and funded by barre in the 70's you still hold that there was nothing anti isaaq going on

 

[SultanuuFicaan]

I believe we should abolish federalism which is a foreign sponsored mechanism to further Balkanize an already fractured (due to clan disputes) homogenized langaab (compare our population to our neighbours) society.

Establish the 'Second Somali Republic', one sole president and one sole prime minister.
God curse any enemy of the somali people and those somalis who seek to prevent a peaceful, harmonic and prosperous motherland.


Currently we are pawns to Gulf arabs, habesha and Kikuyu bantus. We once ruled the indian ocean and red sea decisively ever since the dwindling Aksumites during the 7th century until the scramble for africa era, a good couple of centuries. Today our southern towns are administrated and controlled by amisom, how degrading. We can barely fish in peace in our waters and our rivers are being dammed by the raw meat eating vermins


It's ramadan, pray that the almighty will bestow his mercy on this cursed ethnic group and return us our former glory, only he can do such a thing.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

The difference between them and the snm was that the wanted complete power whereas somaliland wanted succession based on proper grounds. the northerners agreed to join in a union with the south but once you attacked and murdered us we desired to return to British somaliland. It is natural to look for allies regardless of who they are when you are fighting for your freedom. Just accept somalia is weak because you guys are incompetent not us.

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

 

[Prince Abubu]

Wrong, completely fallacious. Isaaq were a target in the late 70's, literally right after the ogadeen war. SNM was formed years after due to that very reason.

Afweyne didn't even wait till after the Ogaden war. He was already purging and murdering Isaaq officer during the war itself.

 

[Bahal]

So when dabar goynta Isaaqa was formed by the ogaden and funded by barre in the 70's you still hold that there was nothing anti isaaq going on

I find it hard to believe there would be high ranking Isaaq officials who would turn a blind eye to their own repression. There's a reason almost all defections occurred in the mid 80s.

 

[Prince Abubu]

I find it hard to believe there would be high ranking Isaaq officials who would turn a blind eye to their own repression. There's a reason almost all defections occurred in the mid 80s.

Never underestimate the power of human greed. There are Somalis today turning a blind eye to the torture and murder of their people by Kenya and Ethiopia.

 

[SultanuuFicaan]

Never underestimate the power of human greed. There are Somalis today turning a blind eye to the torture and murder of their people by Kenya and Ethiopia.

There were somalis who openly allowed the Kenyans to take a chunk of our maritime territories for money.
They were somalis who openly allowed foreigners to dump nuclear toxic waste in our oceans for money.

We are a disgrace to our maritime forefathers.

 

[Professor]

A lot of my fellow Isaaqs are upset that I spoke against the SNM. Listen guys, I'm not against the USC, SSDF and SNM rebellions because I support Siyaad Barre. Like I said no ruler has a divine right to rule over others. This isn't medieval Europe where they used to believe in the Divine Right of Kings doctrine. So I don't find anything wrong with ambitious men who want to seize power. I may not support them if i think the current ruler is better, but at least I'll understand that they have a right to challenge the ruler for power. But what I'll never understand and never support is various rebel groups who will not unite into one nationalist umbrella, do not have a plan for the country and do not have enough might to take power with very little bloodshed.

Siyaad Barre had many faults. If the USC, SSDF, SNM and SPM united into one nationalist front, took power with little bloodshed via a coup or something similar and then resumed normal governance then of course I would support them. But they did none of that. So let's not argue about why the SNM rebelled and if it was justified, because a group doesn't even need a good reason to try and take the reigns of power. Power itself is enough of a justification. But I don't support the SNM nor any of the other rebel groups because they failed in the three conditions I've outlined above, resulting in us being in a worse position than we could ever imagine being while under Siyaad.

Wallahi you are an embarrassment to isaaq tribe. You are worst then khanis and gaalo isaaq. How can you side with a man that would kill you if he could just solely on your tribe. The man drove that country in the ground and then you have the audacity to blame the snm men who were protected our people. WallahI idc if it is Ramadan please i beg you please literally kill yourself wallahI. I would spit in you face and stamp on your head if I could meet you in person. I habaar you and ur whole family to eternity of hell fire. WallahI you are worst then khanis and gaalo.

 

[xisaabiye]

I find it hard to believe there would be high ranking Isaaq officials who would turn a blind eye to their own repression. There's a reason almost all defections occurred in the mid 80s.

So are you denying that dabar goynta isaaqa was formed and funded by barre in the late 70s. People defecting and riding the wave has nothing to do with it

Edit: because you are implying isaaq wernt targeted until snm was formed

 

[horumar]

A lot of my fellow Isaaqs are upset that I spoke against the SNM. Listen guys, I'm not against the USC, SSDF and SNM rebellions because I support Siyaad Barre. Like I said no ruler has a divine right to rule over others. This isn't medieval Europe where they used to believe in the Divine Right of Kings doctrine. So I don't find anything wrong with ambitious men who want to seize power. I may not support them if i think the current ruler is better, but at least I'll understand that they have a right to challenge the ruler for power. But what I'll never understand and never support is various rebel groups who will not unite into one nationalist umbrella, do not have a plan for the country and do not have enough might to take power with very little bloodshed.

Siyaad Barre had many faults. If the USC, SSDF, SNM and SPM united into one nationalist front, took power with little bloodshed via a coup or something similar and then resumed normal governance then of course I would support them. But they did none of that. So let's not argue about why the SNM rebelled and if it was justified, because a group doesn't even need a good reason to try and take the reigns of power. Power itself is enough of a justification. But I don't support the SNM nor any of the other rebel groups because they failed in the three conditions I've outlined above, resulting in us being in a worse position than we could ever imagine being while under Siyaad.

Nice of you to pop back in, did you read the proof of the deliberate targeting of Isaaq by barre-supplied ogadeni forces?

There is no way they could've been united, just like @merka said, this was a clan uprising, and that is why the SNM started in 81, way before the other clans. They felt the brute force of barre out of the other clans the most.

@SultanuuFicaan was also right in saying that the coup in 1969 should've been the point at which we rebelled. However the matter of the fact is that the people actually supported the coup. Siad barre's main purpose for the coup was to end the corruption of the SYL and the clan-based political system with each clan and sub sub clan having their own political parities. I mean there were over 40 parties for a country of a few million like wtf? It would've been undemocratic if the Marxuum Cigaal rebelled then, it would've been better if there was a better political establishment of Somalia before the colonials left us. Which we had in Somaliland, as it was a protectorate, but not so much in the Italian colony. They were directly governed and had no experience other than being taught in Italian schools and unis to further Italy's post colonial agenda. Somaliland's politicans were experienced and were taught in Somaliland and had a lot of time governing the country, as it was a protectorate, not a colony.

 

[TSP]

No, USC were successful in the eyes of their master. Ethiopia only wanted the complete disintegration of Somalia and they got their wish. All of these rebel groups just followed their orders and are now living life while the masses suffer with anarchy.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

No, USC were successful in the eyes of their master. Ethiopia only wanted the complete disintegration of Somalia and they got their wish. All of these rebel groups just followed their orders and are now living life while the masses suffer with anarchy.

The irony is that these are the same people who support Bashar al Assad against the US backed Syrian rebels, or supported Gadaffi against the US backed Libyan rebels, for the same reason why we support Siad Barre against the Ethiopian backed Somali rebels.