Thread on the history of Coffee (New Manuscripts Uncovered)

[Ella Amida]

Yes, I got west and east mixed up. My bad. But again, people in this thread are ethnicizing this as a Habesha V Somali thing when he's not even doing that. This is no different from when you stand up for a qabiil or region or group somewhere in Somaliweyn and some goofs in the thread immediately begin accusing you of being of this or that qabiil to derail the exchange. Not saying you're necessarily doing that, though. More others in the thread.

Anyway:



Doesn't this outright prove that the eastern plants came originally (or were admixed into) from the west? Again, true, proper domestication could have started in the east and still had some introduction from the west. A sort of proto-domestication, if you will. At the end of the day, isn't it generally accepted that some sort of movement of the plant from the west occurred to kickstart things in the east?

Don’t bother. I’ve seen more than once how @Idilinaa operates - when shown evidence to the contrary or backed into a corner, he simply re-phrases or regurgitates his talking point almost like a robot and eventually you just get bored talking in circles and repeating yourself.

He will keep repeating the line “Western plant remained wild. Eastern plants were cultivated/domesticated” as if domestication is some binary state rather than a continuum because he wants to write out the early cultivators out of the story. The heart of the matter is that he wants to assign 100% credit to the Somali / highland Muslim cultural sphere from start to finish so there isn’t a point in engaging further imo unless he brings something new to the table.

 

[Guure⁸]

Coffee and Khat were considered Holy, it was a practice even Qadiriya mashaykh kept in use as it gave them long hours of concentration.

They still call it quud awliyo (food of the awliya)

 

[Idilinaa]

Don’t bother. I’ve seen more than once how @Idilinaa operates - when shown evidence to the contrary or backed into a corner, he simply re-phrases or regurgitates his talking point almost like a robot and eventually you just get bored talking in circles and repeating yourself.

He will keep repeating the line “Western plant remained wild. Eastern plants were cultivated/domesticated” as if domestication is some binary state rather than a continuum because he wants to write out the early cultivators out of the story. The heart of the matter is that he wants to assign 100% credit to the Somali / highland Muslim cultural sphere from start to finish so there isn’t a point in engaging further imo unless he brings something new to the table.

The supposed evidence that @Shimbiris provided which was an unsourced quote. It is pretty consistent with what i have been saying. The Western one grew in abundance wild in the forests and the wild plant was taking from the west and cultivated in the east and that cultivated variant from the east is the one that was taken to Arabia.

They are mapping the migration and genetic history of the coffee plant. I was contextualizing with history why they western population of the coffee tree/plant mostly stayed wild which is what genetic studies show.

The researchers sequenced the genomes of multiple Arabica plants from different locations.

They found that all cultivated varieties cluster genetically with the Eastern population, meaning they share a common ancestry. The Western population did not show this genetic signature in cultivated coffee.
There’s a clear genetic split between Eastern and Western populations, indicating limited gene flow between them. Cultivated plants are genetically closer to Eastern plants, confirming that humans selected and propagated plants from the Eastern side.

Archaeobotanical and ethnobotanical data support that coffee domestication started in this region.

Western side of the riftvalley = Wild Ancestor.

Eastern side of the riftvalley= Source of all cultivated coffee.

It's not difficult to understand without conflating it.

 

[Zak12]

I think the safest (and most accurate) conclusion here is that coffee is the heritage of both Ethiopians and Somalis. The beans and drink itself was first made in Ethiopia which then reached Northern Somalia where it was first transported to Arabia. That was the perspective I always took.

 

[MacrobianPrince]

I think the safest (and most accurate) conclusion here is that coffee is the heritage of both Ethiopians and Somalis. The beans and drink itself was first made in Ethiopia which then reached Northern Somalia where it was first transported to Arabia. That was the perspective I always took.

Have you not read the thread the whole point was saying it only was domesticated in the west before the east variant was domesticated centuries later, not to mention all historical sources point towards Zeyla as it's origin not some Ethiopian village

 

[Zak12]

Have you not read the thread the whole point was saying it only was domesticated in the west before the east variant was domesticated centuries later, not to mention all historical sources point towards Zeyla as it's origin not some Ethiopian village

It was almost assuredly being drunk in Hararghe first before reaching Zayla since it doesn't make much sense for coffee to spontaneously appear in Zayla without having appeared in its adjacent zone, Hararghe which was the origin of the eastern domesticated beans.

 

[MacrobianPrince]

It was almost assuredly being drunk in Hararghe first before reaching Zayla since it doesn't make much sense for coffee to spontaneously appear in Zayla without having appeared in its adjacent zone, Hararghe which was the origin of the domesticated beans.

Even if it was drank first in Harar we have all the sources right now to prove that Somalis lived in that city and were the first people to cultivate coffee there, there's no historical evidence pointing towards ethio semites other fabricated botanist claims

 

[Zak12]

Even if it was drank first in Harar we have all the sources right now to prove that Somalis lived in that city and were the first people to cultivate coffee there, there's no historical evidence pointing towards ethio semites other fabricated botanist claims

Harar and the Hararghe area was multiethnic. While Somalis were a significant portion of the population, you are overshadowing the non-Somalis who lived alongside and were native to the region before the Oromo migrations.