Thought experiment: Al Shabab teleports to rural Texas

[Celery]

@Celery Also Islam is not only limited to the things stated, there's tons of important matters such as the correct Aqeedah to follow and many Fiqhi matters, the state will fall into degeneracy if we don't educate the youth

I’m talking about a practical way to fight terrorism. They’re like snakes that hide in tall grass. Our society is that tall grass. Taking aggressive large scale law enforcement actions while steering clear of legitimate worship is necessary.

States do have a right to take extraordinary actions to secure their countries. For example in El Salvador, they arrested a majority of young men and then slowly filtered out the bad guys. This resulted in that country becoming one of the safest.

 

[Celery]

And the majority of our nation is filled with nomads and our religion tells about their troublesomeness, they are hard headed people who are filled with superstitions, they live doing haram like looting and murdering reer baadiyo are the root cause of our problems, we must eliminate them by urbanizing their areas and warring with them

Yes the nomads are a problem. They’re similar to un-contacted Amazon tribes in the 21st century. They prefer living according to customary laws rather than state laws. Some degree of enforcement is needed.

 

[Cush]

I’m talking about a practical way to fight terrorism. They’re like snakes that hide in tall grass. Our society is that tall grass. Taking aggressive large scale law enforcement actions while steering clear of legitimate worship is necessary.

The people are confused are ignorant of the correct manhaj making them easily susceptible to these people
Then the masses will be motivated to fight them off and maintain peace

But we crazy reer baadiyo doing lord knows what heinous nonsense in their lands, being lead by grave worshipping crazies who use the Deen for their benefit and care more for their pockets then the starving child among his tol who starves!

When the knowledgable among the tribe would advise the clan leaders to steer them from these people and convince the tribe, they would barrage them with Quran, screaming it while blocking their ears

So how do you expect change when these buffoons lead the people? We need to educate folk on the Deen, the correct manhaj

 

[GemState]

This is all true. But if Mongolia’s state collapses for 50 years, no jihadist movements will be in the country. Our country is tailor-made for groups like these to thrive. This is the giant elephant in the room that no one addresses.

Somalia(and Africa in general) is tailormade for all insurgents, whether they're tribal, national, ethnic, religious, etc. Having said that, Al-Shabab are not really worse in terms of violence committed than the secular warlords in the 1990s, which is why back home they're not seen as this total evil.

 

[Celery]

The people are confused are ignorant of the correct manhaj making them easily susceptible to these people
Then the masses will be motivated to fight them off and maintain peace

But we crazy reer baadiyo doing lord knows what heinous nonsense in their lands, being lead by grave worshipping crazies who use the Deen for their benefit and care more for their pockets then the starving child among his tol who starves!

When the knowledgable among the tribe would advise the clan leaders to steer them from these people and convince the tribe, they would barrage them with Quran, screaming it while blocking their ears

So how do you expect change when these buffoons lead the people? We need to educate folk on the Deen, the correct manhaj

But WHO is doing this reeducation? No one. The solution is an aggressive nation state that is not influenced by inappropriate considerations.

 

[Cush]

But WHO is doing this reeducation? No one. The solution is an aggressive nation state that is not influenced by inappropriate considerations.

And WHO can do that when the the government and these people are 2 sides of the same coin
And you can't have this "aggressive nation state" without the common folk uniting on their common hate which drives them to the point they fight in droves and focus on this 1 problem solely

 

[Basra]

This sounds absurd but hear me out. Let’s say all of the Shabab fighters teleport over night from south Somalia to south Texas. They quickly take over rural communities and embed themselves in largely uninhabited area. Assume there are thousands of them and they teleport with all of their weapons and money.

The thought experiment will get much weirder. Assume the state of Texas is very politically divided and broke like Somalia. Does Shabaab spread out and take Austin and San Antonio? Do they maintain control of south Texas as the leaders vow to annihilate them?


The people of Texas have absolutely NO interest in being governed under sharia. They hate sharia and they may very well be unjustified in their hate. The fear of sharia rule will cause every farmer, every redneck, every grandpa and grandma, every white, Mexican and black to grab their AR 15 and make short work of them. This is before law enforcement or national guard/US military comes in.

It’ll be on Fox News non-stop forever. There won’t be any US leaders coming in and talking about the “battle for the hearts and minds” of people or the lack of economic opportunity that forced them into shabab. No one will talk about “reconciliation” and appoint former terrorists as ministers of religion. Presidential medals of honour will be handed out to hundreds of brave Texans who repelled the jihadist invasion.

Islamophobia will skyrocket and become even more tolerated in the US. CAIR and other organizations will hail the Texans as heroes and condemn the terrorists. This won’t be enough. Life for the average Muslim will become hell. The 1st amendment right to freedom of religion will be ignored and mosques will be shut down and investigated.

Bringing this back to Somalia, Al Shabab is like a snake that lives among tall unkept grass. Somali society serves as the tall grass in this analogy. If we keep things real, people are not sure Al Shabab are that bad. Sure they extort people and do some rough things.

The soldiers fighting them have to morally convince themselves that they won’t go to hell for fighting someone with the shahada on their flag.

imagine this is weed

 

[SamaaleCushite]

Explain what a Wahabi is and their beliefs? You claim Salafis cause all these problems yet don't even understand what it is, and you use it as an insult when Al Wahab is one of the many names of Allah

i never insulted salafis or Al-Wahab i was refering to Abdulwahab the founder of wahabism whom with the rise in wahabism in the modern age has led to the rise of islamic extremism making way for wahabi khawaarijs. Which is just the way the world is rn.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Everyone can agree that a Muslim should be just, right?

Even if you disagree with "Wahhabism", obviously it isn't just to caricature "wahhabis" as though all "wahhabis" are violent anarquists.

Another thing is I don't think that sort of propaganda really will work with people who have any familiarity with Salafiyyah. I think itms obvious to anyone who has seen a clip of Sheikh Fawzan or Sheikh Assim al Hakeem that these people don't have the same ideology as daesh or AS.

Btw this unjust propaganda is pretty much the same as what the Hindu extremists used to go after Zakir Naik. Zakir Naik is a "wahhabi" but that doesn't mean it's on to paint him or other "Wahhabis" in a false way.

And we can say for example Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah was a Salafi but not a "Wahhabi" but in our times pretty much all Salafis are "Wahhabis" as pretty much all Salafis are pro-Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab.

If we're honest and just and we don't believe in lying about fellow Muslims- people who support Sheikh Muhammad ibn Wahhab or claim to follow him encompass a huge spectrum and variety of people. Yes, at one extreme there is groups like AS but at the other extreme there are "Madkhalis" who are like the polar opposite. Of course, the right way is to go a middle path and not go with any extremes.

 

[Omar del Sur]

i never insulted salafis i just said the rise in wahabism led to the rise of islamic extremism making way for wahabi khawaarijs. Which is just the way the world is rn.

what Salafis are anti Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab?

 

[SamaaleCushite]

what Salafis are anti Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab?

salafims is an ideal even sufis folow it... Its not a group of people you may claim to be salafi but its an ideal that you folow same as hardline sufism or hardline shiism

 

[Celery]

View attachment 314804 imagine this is weed

Maybe

 

[SamaaleCushite]

One thing we should all agree on Abduwahab folowers are the majority in the sunni sect of Islam and aslong as they remain so we will have some of them become khawaarijs that slaughter sufi muslims or others

 

[Cush]

i never insulted salafis or Al-Wahab i was refering to Abdulwahab the founder of wahabism whom with the rise in wahabism in the modern age has led to the rise of islamic extremism making way for wahabi khawaarijs. Which is just the way the world is rn.

Foolish ignorant Ashari yet again speaking nonsense about a topic which they know nothing about
Ibn Abdul Wahab Rahimahullah was a Sheikh who rose up in Nejd during the 1700's who had witnessed the people commiting numerous transgressions against Allah, the scholars were part taking in shirk and teaching the people it, they worshiped graves and trees and added all sorts of innovations to the religion, Ibn Abdul Wahab did not teach anything bad, I dare you to bring me one thing from his books!
He was a revivalist of the Deen at a time when it's authentic form was dying among the people, name one extreme thing he did
I suggest you read his books such as Kitaab At Tawheed
Terms like Wahabi are used to scare people away from following the Salaf strictly

 

[Omar del Sur]

salafims is an ideal even sufis folow it... Its not a group of people you may claim to be salafi but its an ideal that you folow same as hardline sufism or hardline shiism

Salafiyyah definitely can be used to talk about either thing- the group known as Salafis- Sheikh Ibn Baz, Sheikh Albani, etc..... or it can be used to talk about an ideal, most definitely. The ideal... just about anyone I think can claim to believe in following the salaf. In the sense of the group, in that sense Salafis and "Wahhabis" are basically the same thing with the exception of Salafis who lived before Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab.

 

[SamaaleCushite]

Foolish ignorant Ashari yet again speaking nonsense about a topic which they know nothing about
Ibn Abdul Wahab Rahimahullah was a Sheikh who rose up in Nejd during the 1700's who had witnessed the people commiting numerous transgressions against Allah, the scholars were part taking in shirk and teaching the people it, they worshiped graves and trees and added all sorts of innovations to the religion, Ibn Abdul Wahab did not teach anything bad, I dare you to bring me one thing from his books!
He was a revivalist of the Deen at a time when it's authentic form was dying among the people, name one extreme thing he did
I suggest you read his books such as Kitaab At Tawheed
Terms like Wahabi are used to scare people away from following the Salaf strictly

I legit dont care for his books sxb for i aint wahabi alx. All im saying is Wahabis is the most fragile sect of islam in history it can easily turn violent without a moments notice and with just a few words from british oil paid individuals or american/khaleej funded agents.

 

[Cush]

I legit dont care for his books sxb for i aint wahabi alx. All im saying is Wahabis is the most fragile sect of islam in history it can easily turn violent without a moments notice and with just a few words from british oil paid individuals or american/khaleej funded agents.

I swear how ignorant can these Sufis be?!
I ask him send me one sentence in his book to prove his evil then he responds "I legit don't care" blatant ignorance! He doesn't even care to read
MIAW never fought alongside the British..... What his teachings are and how the people deviated have nothing to do with him, which is why we follow his books and not the things people did after his deaths

These same people claim to follow the Sahaba, and the prophet SAW
And the racist ignorant whites use that as fuel to ignorantly say our religion is evil you are no different to them

Sufis also have many evil organizations, they massacred Atharis in Morroco, should we now use this as propaganda against Asharis and their Sheikhs?

 

[Omar del Sur]

I suggest you read his books such as Kitaab At Tawheed

One thing we should all agree on Abduwahab folowers are the majority in the sunni sect of Islam and aslong as they remain so we will have some of them become khawaarijs that slaughter sufi muslims or others

I'm with Cush, I think you should read Kitab at Tawheed or some of his books. As far as I'm aware, his books are perfectly fine (besides maybe some errors as of course the Sheikh wasn't infallible). I don't know of anything in his books telling people to go beat up Sufis or anything like that.

With any kind of belief, there can be people who go too far. You might talk about modesty and chastity and someone somewhere does an honor killing. Some guy might become a vegan and start getting aggressive with his non-vegan relatives. There was even a vegan woman who they say shot up the youtube headquarters.

I don't think it's kitab at tawheed telling people to go join AS groups. most of these ppl.... they are following ppl like Osama Bin Laden or daesh... I think those kinds of figures are pulling ppl towards that sort of sort of thing, I don't think it's some chapter in kitab at tawheed warning people that grave worship is shirk.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I swear how ignorant can these Sufis be?!
I ask him send me one sentence in his book to prove his evil then he responds "I legit don't care" blatant ignorance! He doesn't even care to read
MIAW never fought alongside the British..... What his teachings are and how the people deviated have nothing to do with him, which is why we follow his books and not the things people did after his deaths

These same people claim to follow the Sahaba, and the prophet SAW
And the racist ignorant whites use that as fuel to ignorantly say our religion is evil you are no different to them

Sufis also have many evil organizations, they massacred Atharis in Morroco, should we now use this as propaganda against Asharis and their Sheikhs?

the anti "Wahhabi" ppl... I've waited for years for them to show where exactly in his books he's telling people to join or form AS type groups or is teaching anything particularly deviant... they can never point to anything.... I think the most I've seen them expose as far as his books is that kitab at tawheed may have a weak hadith... and I'm not even sure if the hadith is weak

 

[Cush]

I'm with Cush, I think you should read Kitab at Tawheed or some of his books. As far as I'm aware, his books are perfectly fine (besides maybe some errors as of course the Sheikh wasn't infallible). I don't know of anything in his books telling people to go beat up Sufis or anything like that.

With any kind of belief, there can be people who go too far. You might talk about modesty and chastity and someone somewhere does an honor killing. Some guy might become a vegan and start getting aggressive with his non-vegan relatives. There was even a vegan woman who they say shot up the youtube headquarters.

I don't think it's kitab at tawheed telling people to go join AS groups. most of these ppl.... they are following ppl like Osama Bin Laden or daesh... I think those kinds of figures are pulling ppl towards that sort of sort of thing, I don't think it's some chapter in kitab at tawheed warning people that grave worship is shirk.

It's the waves of propganda against Salafia!
In every comments section you will see these Ahl Bidah spamming Wahabi this! Wahabi that! no evidence whatsoever, so in their minds it Salafia becomes synonymous with misguidance
They haven't read any of his books, they're too filled with propaganda