Thought experiment: Al Shabab teleports to rural Texas

[Celery]

Whole scale slaughter of muslims due to accusations of heresy only began with wahabis in modern age. An Islamic nation must thoroguhly regulate wahabis or join them and export them to other countries to reduce damage. Failure to do this will result in nothing but misery for other Islamic sect / non muslims no matter how misguided they are.

Khawaarijs must be seen as demons hijacking the shahada they must be shown no mercy for they will show no mecy to muslim or non muslim only then can they be defeated. You cant deal with terrorsits like normal humans you must arrest their families if they refuse to out them.

You must be ruthless only then can u be free. Somalia will never be free with wahabis in religious authority there will always be sympathizers.

How come none of the leaders are saying this? HSM recently said he doesn’t know if they can be defeated ideologically. Like wtf

 

[Celery]

The US is a wealthy, irreligious, cohesive state with a median age of 40+

Somalia is a poor, extremely religious, divided country with a median age of 17

Drop 1000 open LGBT people in the middle of Somalia and they'd get liqudated pretty quickly, it's completely different societies, stupid to compare.

The highlighted part. The Islamist population serves as the fertile environment for kebab to flourish.

 

[SamaaleCushite]

How come none of the leaders are saying this? HSM recently said he doesn’t know if they can be defeated ideologically. Like wtf

Sadly unlike Senegal were right next to Yemen (weapon factories) & Saudi/Khaleejis we stand no chance in regard to kahwaarij funding and weapon distribution and also Saudi generates more and more hardline somali 'sheikhs' so its quite impossible to beat them. Only way is to integrate them to the government and slowly break them apart.

 

[Celery]

Sadly unlike Senegal were right next to Yemen (weapon factories) & Saudi/Khaleejis we stand no chance in regard to kahwaarij funding and weapon distribution and also Saudi generates more and more hardline somali 'sheikhs' so its quite impossible to beat them. Only way is to integrate them to the government and slowly break them apart.

This is how we’re different from other societies. Too many hurdles to overcome in order to defeat terrorism. Can’t we just ban the sheikhs from public life? Siad barre tried that and got overthrown

 

[SamaaleCushite]

This is how we’re different from other societies. Too many hurdles to overcome in order to defeat terrorism. Can’t we just ban the sheikhs from public life? Siad barre tried that and got overthrown

too late sxb just go to ur local somali comunity centers and count how many 'akhi akhi' somalis u find. Theyre part of us and somalis are like 70-80% wahabi its far too late.

Only thing we can do is to bring kebab to the table and make an agreement . Sad as it may seem this could be the only way to permanent peace as there is always the risk of kebab recruits due to foreign isues.

 

[Cush]

This sounds absurd but hear me out. Let’s say all of the Shabab fighters teleport over night from south Somalia to south Texas. They quickly take over rural communities and embed themselves in largely uninhabited area. Assume there are thousands of them and they teleport with all of their weapons and money.

The thought experiment will get much weirder. Assume the state of Texas is very politically divided and broke like Somalia. Does Shabaab spread out and take Austin and San Antonio? Do they maintain control of south Texas as the leaders vow to annihilate them?


The people of Texas have absolutely NO interest in being governed under sharia. They hate sharia and they may very well be unjustified in their hate. The fear of sharia rule will cause every farmer, every redneck, every grandpa and grandma, every white, Mexican and black to grab their AR 15 and make short work of them. This is before law enforcement or national guard/US military comes in.

It’ll be on Fox News non-stop forever. There won’t be any US leaders coming in and talking about the “battle for the hearts and minds” of people or the lack of economic opportunity that forced them into shabab. No one will talk about “reconciliation” and appoint former terrorists as ministers of religion. Presidential medals of honour will be handed out to hundreds of brave Texans who repelled the jihadist invasion.

Islamophobia will skyrocket and become even more tolerated in the US. CAIR and other organizations will hail the Texans as heroes and condemn the terrorists. This won’t be enough. Life for the average Muslim will become hell. The 1st amendment right to freedom of religion will be ignored and mosques will be shut down and investigated.

Bringing this back to Somalia, Al Shabab is like a snake that lives among tall unkept grass. Somali society serves as the tall grass in this analogy. If we keep things real, people are not sure Al Shabab are that bad. Sure they extort people and do some rough things.

The soldiers fighting them have to morally convince themselves that they won’t go to hell for fighting someone with the shahada on their flag.

In order to answer your question you must first understand the mindset and belief system of your average Somali, and their many reasons they assign themselves to the ideology of such a barbaric miltiia

The majority of their forces come from youth, from disgruntled clans who want to gain political supremacy over their brothers, who are fed up by the fact they can't eat equally with their peers, which is why most of them come from tribes like Madow, Eelay and Murursade, whenever a tribe has a problem with another, you'll random see them jumping to join these niggas for some heavy weaponry and support to annhilate them

And this is Somalia we're talking about..... Not the properly governed organized state of Texas where every lives in cities with proper health care education and human rights, the people are normal, they aren't warring struggling tribal nomads who view their neighbors as their worst enemy which they must annihilate, they aren't people who live on wells and grazing fields and so must go out and kill 20 to make sure they can heard their sheep near the nearest ceel

Plus, the Somali government don't care for any regions outside of Xamar, it's the wild west out there and the clans rule, so to these niggas see it as a good option to get supremacy by their shit hole standard

The other problem is ideologies
Take the Sufis of Galgaduud and the reer Puntland for example, you bring those niggas there and they'll wipe the floar with them in 3 nights, they've never touched a single village in those lands, and it's because the common folk are STRICTLY against it

When we have tribes switching between joining these folk and fighting for the SNA more than a chameleon switches colors, you of course won't gain any progress in this war

 

[Celery]

too late sxb just go to ur local somali comunity centers and count how many 'akhi akhi' somalis u find. Theyre part of us and somalis are like 70-80% wahabi its far too late.

Only thing we can do is to bring kebab to the table and make an agreement . Sad as it may seem this could be the only way to permanent peace as there is always the risk of kebab recruits due to foreign isues.

This right here is the problem.

 

[awsaleban667]

In America, leaders will not need to call them “khawariij” to justify hunting them down. Every American will totally hate them and destroy them with passion.

They won’t be able to plant spies in the government because no one will be sympathetic to their ideology.

Same thing would happen in Somalia if Al Shabaab were Christian. Somali society is not ”more” morally comprismised than America when it comes to extremists. Moderates for every group are softer on their own extremists than opposing Extremists. Imagine if Al Shabaab was bombing mosques, killing Muslims, and placing crucifixes in tuulos. They would be wiped out in an afternoon. Now imagine if the government crumbled in 1920s U.S.A and there was a far right Christian militia in Texas it would be far harder to put down.

TL;DR this is a dumb thread

 

[Cush]

too late sxb just go to ur local somali comunity centers and count how many 'akhi akhi' somalis u find. Theyre part of us and somalis are like 70-80% wahabi its far too late.

Only thing we can do is to bring kebab to the table and make an agreement . Sad as it may seem this could be the only way to permanent peace as there is always the risk of kebab recruits due to foreign isues.

Explain what a Wahabi is and their beliefs? You claim Salafis cause all these problems yet don't even understand what it is, and you use it as an insult when Al Wahab is one of the many names of Allah

 

[awsaleban667]

There are plenty of guns in Somalia. It’s just that people are either sympathetic to kebab or at best indifferent. The only time people get angry is when their relatives get beheaded or they blow up important people.

There’s no unified outrage and rejection of the group or their ideas. If the two countries’ populations were suddenly swapped, Americans would do in an afternoon what we couldn’t in 20 years.

The highlighted part. The Islamist population serves as the fertile environment for kebab to flourish.

Somalia will always be Islamist cry harder

 

[Cush]

This is how we’re different from other societies. Too many hurdles to overcome in order to defeat terrorism. Can’t we just ban the sheikhs from public life? Siad barre tried that and got overthrown

Ban the Sheikhs kulaha! Subhanallah! How ignorant can you be? Do you realize the whole reason people are joining them in bulks is because of their ignorance on the Deen?! Had we had more scholars on the correct manhaj we'd have a more educated smarter populus who wouldn't make such foolish decisions

 

[awsaleban667]

This is how we’re different from other societies. Too many hurdles to overcome in order to defeat terrorism. Can’t we just ban the sheikhs from public life? Siad barre tried that and got overthrown

Cry harder

 

[Celery]

In order to answer your question you must first understand the mindset and belief system of your average Somali, and their many reasons they assign themselves to the ideology of such a barbaric miltiia

The majority of their forces come from youth, from disgruntled clans who want to gain political supremacy over their brothers, who are fed up by the fact they can't eat equally with their peers, which is why most of them come from tribes like Madow, Eelay and Murursade, whenever a tribe has a problem with another, you'll random see them jumping to join these niggas for some heavy weaponry and support to annhilate them

And this is Somalia we're talking about..... Not the properly governed organized state of Texas where every lives in cities with proper health care education and human rights, the people are normal, they aren't warring struggling tribal nomads who view their neighbors as their worst enemy which they must annihilate, they aren't people who live on wells and grazing fields and so must go out and kill 20 to make sure they can heard their sheep near the nearest ceel

Plus, the Somali government don't care for any regions outside of Xamar, it's the wild west out there and the clans rule, so to these niggas see it as a good option to get supremacy by their shit hole standard

The other problem is ideologies
Take the Sufis of Galgaduud and the Majeerten for example, you bring those niggas there and they'll wipe the floar with them in 3 nights, they've never touched a single village in those lands, and it's because the common folk are STRICTLY against it

When we have tribes switching between joining these folk and fighting for the SNA more than a chameleon switches colors, you of course won't gain any progress in this war

This is thoughtful response. You think the tribal society is the main issue? I think it plays a role for sure. You don’t think the salafist ideology that’s prevalent serves as a fertile environment for Kebab?

 

[Cush]

This is thoughtful response. You think the tribal society is the main issue? I think it plays a role for sure. You don’t think the salafist ideology that’s prevalent serves as a fertile environment for Kebab?

The tribalism and the amnosity tribes have for each other which causes people to switch sides for supremacy and the lack of a common goal which is driven by a known common knowledge which installs the necessary information to hate these people is what is driving this
That and the fact these people have never seen a peaceful urban lifestyle where they can have proper health care education food and water in abundance and proper infrastructure
They've only seen this hell hole, so from their perspective they are the kings of the hell hole once they ally with these people

 

[Celery]

Ban the Sheikhs kulaha! Subhanallah! How ignorant can you be? Do you realize the whole reason people are joining them in bulks is because of their ignorance on the Deen?! Had we had more scholars on the correct manhaj we'd have a more educated smarter populus who wouldn't make such foolish decisions

So you’re saying get the correct state-approved sheikhs to reverse brain wash people? The state is filled with the kebab sympathizers. This is not happening. I think criminalizing any religious activity outside of praying, fasting, giving alms, hajj will solve the problem. This means arresting and prosecuting “influencers” and shutting down gatherings.

As long as this is enforced, the problem can go away.

 

[GemState]

The highlighted part. It’s not that it’s just religious. The religiosity is what’s enabling the terrorism. The Islamist population serves as the fertile environment for kebab to flourish.

It's more a result of 25 years of state collapse + poverty than religiosity. Proximity to the GCC doesn't help in this regard, Cultural influence flows outward from stronger and more economically important nations to weaker and junior ones.

The reason the largest Al-Qaeda charter is a Somali one and not an Iraqi/Saudi/Syrian one is because we're economically and culturally backward in comparison and so trends that are quickly adopted and discarded in MENA are much harder to get rid of in the periphery (Somalia and Sahel). It's sort of how China and Russia adopted communism and ruined themselves with it, with Western world abandoning it by then.

 

[Cush]

So you’re saying get the correct state-approved sheikhs to reverse brain wash people? The state is filled with the kebab sympathizers. This is not happening. I think criminalizing any religious activity outside of praying, fasting, giving alms, hajj will solve the problem. This means arresting and prosecuting “influencers” and shutting down gatherings.

As long as this is enforced, the problem can go away.

Because the Somali government and these people are 2 sides of the same coin, we literally have 2 of them some of the highest positions in government, one of them is the minister of defense!
So of course this propaganda will leak into the public

What we need is to start educating the populus on the correct manhaj, the correct Aqeedah the teachings of the prophet Muhammad ﷺ according to the Salaf, then will the people understand the barbarism and nonsense of these people!
The government doesn't care!

 

[Celery]

It's more a result of 25 years of state collapse + poverty than religiosity. Proximity to the GCC doesn't help in this regard, Cultural influence flows outward from stronger and more economically important nations to weaker and junior ones.

The reason the largest Al-Qaeda charter is a Somali one and not an Iraqi/Saudi/Syrian one is because we're economically and culturally backward in comparison and so trends that are quickly adopted and discarded in MENA are much harder to get rid of in the periphery (Somalia and Sahel). It's sort of how China and Russia adopted communism and ruined themselves with it, with Western world abandoning it by then.

This is all true. But if Mongolia’s state collapses for 50 years, no jihadist movements will be in the country. Our country is tailor-made for groups like these to thrive. This is the giant elephant in the room that no one addresses.

 

[Cush]

@Celery Also Islam is not only limited to the things stated, there's tons of important matters such as the correct Aqeedah to follow and many Fiqhi matters, the state will fall into degeneracy if we don't educate the youth

 

[Cush]

And the majority of our nation is filled with nomads and our religion tells about their troublesomeness, they are hard headed people who are filled with superstitions, they live doing haram like looting and murdering reer baadiyo are the root cause of our problems, we must eliminate them by urbanizing their areas and warring with them