Barre tried to run Somalia as a dictatorship, but as video explains that poor, starving & uneducated people make terrible revolutionaries. Even when you provide the below minimum living conditions. Now imagine trying to manage a dictatorship/communist country when not only is the population with those factors and their culture core values are traditionally an independent and democratic.
This video explains one of the main reasons why Siad Barre’s reign failed
- Thread starter Kurobecky
- Start date
it was pretty open until the 80’s, until the deal fell apart.
Really?!? Because a lot of Americans have told me that all of Africa was socialist/communists. They taught me that in grade school
late 80's after his accident, pretty sure the oday had no idea what was even going on his country. Probably was just signing every paper anyone close to him brought to him
Somalia was "socialist" only in name, the economy was a mix of socialism and capitalism like Scandinavian countries today or the CCP in China. Only national resources were nationalized but there was no land grabbing or anything. In fact capitalistic endeavors were supported by the Somali gov to increase local production. The gov would buy land for Somalis from locals to help them build homes or buy land for them to start their own farms or raise cattle. Stuff like free healthcare and free education etc were given as well ofc
I don't know much about much about Che Guevara but I know many POC's love him and Castro. The Somali and USSR relationship was never close, they never saw us as "socialists " and attributed Siyaad's policies as something strange. They were actually worried by our increased militarization as well. The USSR even sent Castro to Somalia and Yemen to form a union with Ethiopia since the USSR wanted more control over the Horn, however unlike Yemen and Ethiopia, Somalia actually wanted to keep their sovereignty, it's many of the reasons the 1977 war happened because w/o Ethiopia existing or being a weak state, the USSR and US would have to deal directly with Somalia and we could use each of them to our benefit as we would've been the undisputed kings in that area of the world.
In my opinion never liked Cuba or the USSR or any Warsaw pact countries, we just align with whoever would arm us and help us develop quickly. If the US decided to keep their word and keep supplying arms to us in the 77' war we would've won easily as it would've stretched out to be a war of attrition which the soviets couldn't handle with the afghan crisis looming.
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no the rebellions began in the 70s, he should have resigned before the accident but he had African Politician Disease ( glues your rear end to the presidential chair) so he didn’t do what was good for the country.
there are quotes where Che said derogatory things about blacks.... I think he saw blacks as lazy or something... but I don't think he actually hated blacks though.... according to history (I mean assuming we are not going by the conspiracy theory that Che was basically an actor slash fictional character), he fought in the Congo... so he would have had some derogatory views about blacks but also risked his life for them as well....
as far as Fidel, I don't really like Fidel but painting him as racist wouldn't be the right way to attack him... I don't think there's any evidence that he was racist
I agree he didn't want to leave because he didn't have a "suitable" replacement, he wanted an Issaq guy Umar Arteh to lead the county towards the end but it didn't happen quick enough.
As for opposition groups. there was 1 rebellion group in the late 70's which was the SSDF and it was crushed before resurging in the late 80s and making peace with Siyaad. The other groups such as the SNM were artificial groups funded and created by Mengistu's gov.
The USC/SPM were opportunists, someone like Caydiid just wanted to replace Siyaad but things turned out for the worse. Caydiid actually had a foreign minister position that Siyaad gave him before jumping ship, he didn't see Caydiid as a threat
Running Somalia as a dictatorship wasn’t the problem. He did so successfully for the first 10 years and many Somalis welcomed it… But when you add Qabyaalad to the dictatorship is a recipe for disaster….
it didn’t start with qabyaalad it started when he killed the wadaads, everything after that went down hill, was his #1 mistake imo
@Kurobecky was on the right track except for failung to understand this concept the Afweye Barre regime started to fa becsuse of tribal socialism/communism and the fall accelarated in his last few years when the clanist regime became prowestern and Afweyne even promosed to join American Christians in prayer to Ciise caleyhi salam if they gave him him weapond against rebel clans against his tribalist mix of communism/capitalism/capitalism
Siad Barre kinda reminds me of Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor of China. His ideology was legalism. Legalism is based on the viewpoint that in order for a ruler to maintain order in society, people must obey a set of strict laws and those in authority (the rulers and government officials). Legalist philosophers thus created a system of punishment and reward for certain behaviors. He was the one who that was obsessed with immortality & died from mercury poisoning
You have to understand that general Afweyne Barre didnt believe in anything except tribal fantasies. He started out as a policeman for the Fascist regime of Italy
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In 1969, pro Soviet military officers of Soomaliland and Somaalia overthrew the SYL regime and general Afweyne Barre had the most seniority/rank since Somaalia Italiana police experience was counted as military experience. General Afweyne Barre showed his tribal colors in the 1970s with historical revisionism for tribal purposes and his last act as warlord/president of Muqdisho was crying tollaahayeey to motivate members of his confederation against the transtribal/multitribal liberation movements of USC/SPM/SNM. He was proFascist under Italia procommunist in the 1970s then in the 1980s he was capitalist aligned with an American evangelical cult/lobby called the TheFamily. The only constant through out policeman/general/dictator/warlord Afweyne's career has been Afweyne's personal/clannist agenda
@Kurobecky don't listen to @Gadhwayne he has a personal bias that isn't based on facts but rather emotion. He spreads rumors to save face due to his own peoples failures. He refuses to ever mention the rampant corruption and nepotism pre-Siyaad and will never admit Siyaad's achievements as it will make him and his people insecure. I am not even a Kacaanist and I can admit Siyaad gov. did a lot of good for Somali people.
In fact @Gadhwayne were quite wealthy under Siyaad, they had a nice monopoly on livestock exports
In fact @Gadhwayne were quite wealthy under Siyaad, they had a nice monopoly on livestock exports
Calaami
Garaadka Guud ee Beesha Calaamka
I don’t think Fidel was racist. We have to remember most of his rebels in the Sierra Maestra mountains were Afro-Cubans.
+ A lot of Castro policies benefitted mestizos and blacks in Cuba.
Under Bautista and even before that blacks faced overwhelming oppression in finding schools and work due to institutional racism. Castro changed that almost immediately and and gave them the same opportunities white passing Cubanos had.
Che Guevara had died before the socialist gov’t came to power in Somalia. It would’ve made no sense for him to visit an American client state.
That’s what makes historical figures so interesting. Like Qin did kill a lot of people, but did a lot of good and unified China. Another person Siad reminds me of is Oda Nobunaga
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It appears you didnt understand that there was nothing good that Afweyne achieved even the long road that was built during his regime was negotiated by the corrupt SYL regime. The only thing Afweyne did on his own was mismanaging the Somali Republic's support of WSLF and other movements in Ethiopia by not formally involving the SNA in the conflict between Ethiopia and the WSLF and other liberation movements who were running much of the Hararga and peripheral regions of Ethiopia He could have at least had SNA soldiers wear WSLF uniforms and say it is an Ethiopian civil war instead of getting into war with Warsaw pact countries. This was followed by Afweyne helping the WSLF becoming bandits against Northerners which forced northerners to create the SNM which karbaashed the WSLF and Afweyne lost much of the countryside in the North so he called up racist Rhodesian White mercenaries to help him commit genocide and crimes against humanity in the North
The SYL regime had to be overthrown Afweyne's hijacking of the coup. Why didnt you read my first post which mentioned the SYL/South donning military uniforms on the gendarmeria/police and putting their policemen in charge of Northern veterans with WW2 experience and British military academy training which lead to Northern officers from all Northern clans staging a coup in 1961 which the courts found no jurisdiction for prosecution since the SYL regime never ratified the 1960 Somaliland Law of Union and that union law still remains unratfied The ictiraafists will use this fact as justification for dissolving the union between Somalia Italiana and Soomaliland
Northern veterans with WW2 experience and British military kulaha, as if Somalis in Italian Somaliland didn't also fight in WW2.
get out of here man, you refuse to listen to facts. SNM was a Mengistu backed project with help from Israel, you had no real grievances, you were terrorists who randomly started attacking somali civilians and were given multiple chances by Siyaad to come sit down with him before 1988 in which you used homes and civilian areas to fight your own government.
