Nilotic
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I'm a Dinka man, my dude
This study shows that more than 50% of Somalis autosomal is Mota
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I'm a Dinka man, my dude
Hello my cousin Dinka, and to answer your question it’s true Somali are mix between pre Nilotic and natufian, however due to this two group mixing it created Somali race or ethnic group who are new and have nothing to do with both groups anymore. So basically we are new ethnic group that start existing couple of thousand years.
The alchemist
VIP
That's a unique one. I don't know what to think of that.16 kya is around the time when the so-called Green Sahara period began using Heinrich event 1 as a proxy. Therefore I propose the name of 'Eastern Green Saharan'
Maybe we could be technical;
Ancestral East African is the baseline
Ancestral East African 1 and Ancestral East African 2:
We are:
Afro-Asiatic Northeast African + Ancestral East African 1
A pure Nilotic is:
Ancestral East African 2 + ~26-30% early separate Sub-Saharan African DNA (perhaps Green Sahara West to East African migration, some think proto-Nilo-Saharans ventured westward as well).
You can replace 1 and 2 with A and B to your liking. 1 and 2 do not represent sequential time or anything indicating one over the other (one can use 1 for Nilo-Saharans as they retained more of that signature but it would not be important). Divergence is equidistant, so we don't have a closer lineage-based relationship other than separate drift which in my opinion is not that relevant.
I don't like labeling the "Ancestral East African" as "Sub-Saharan." That concept is quite silly when the Nile Valley literally debunks this silly notion of the "Desert is like a separating sea" argument, when in fact the Nile was definitely, at different times, a corridor for people to migrate up and down, granted there were deep fluctuations in time of changing in climatic conditions, harsh desiccation periods. I even read that the Nile became separate lakes at some point in the late Paleolithic due to massive sand barriers (sand barriers that built up) and devastating floods that broke them (and then likely retained new lake formations), which would be crazy to think about, what that meant for the people of the region.
The lake model was first described by Vermeersch and colleagues (2006) and further detailed by Vermeerch and Van Neer (2015). They argue that the aeolian and Nilotic deposits in the main Nile Valley can be interpreted in terms of a lake model. The lake model hypothesizes that enhanced dune activity associated with reduced Nile flow during MIS 2, and especially during the LGM, would have favored the presence of dune dams over the Nile, creating large lakes. Such lakes would have offered a favourable environment for human occupation all-year round (Vermeersch and Van Neer, 2015). The authors’ main objections to the braided river model is that there is no evidence for major alluvial deposits in the Nile Valley such as those expected in the braided river model, and that there is no evidence for channel deposits at Wadi Kubbaniya (Schild et al., 1989, 91). Damming of water courses by sand dunes are well-documented in similar contexts (e.g., in the Negev, Goring-Morris and Goldberg, 1990 and see below; or at Wadi Kubbaniya itself, see above and Schild et al., 1989), and satellite images show that similar processes may have occurred at different locations along the Nile Valley (Vermeersch and Van Neer, 2015; Supplementary Information 3). Dune activity would have been possible due to strong winds, lack of vegetation and abundant sand supply (e.g.,, from the Delta area, which was at the time a sparsely-vegetated plain, Vermeersch and Van Neer, 2015; or from previous high floods of the Nile, leading to the transport of large quantities of sand and subsequent evaporative events, as is documented in the White Nile Valley, Williams, 2019, 113). Data from fish ‘ear-stones’ (otoliths) found at the archaeological site of Makhadma 4 indicate that hydroclimatic conditions during MIS 2 were different from both modern and expected pre-Aswan dam Nile conditions and would be consistent with the lake model (Dufour et al., 2018).
In the context of the lake model, deposits in the area of Makhadma (Sheikh Houssein Clays, see Figure 2), interpreted as high Nile deposits are re-interpreted as suspension deposits, that would have occurred in the setting of a lake environment. Schild and Wendorf (2010) have objected to this model arguing that deposits at Makhadma are not typical of lacustrine deposits, as they are lacking calcareous marls or diatomites. Vermeersch and Van Neer (2015) responded to this by indicating that their model implies a dynamic landscape. The lakes were not permanent lakes per se and the dune dams were occasionally breached by a stronger Nile flood, but would have reformed quickly afterward, recreating a lake at a slightly different location. Such a process is not favourable to the formation of calcareous marls or diatomites. Vermeersch and Van Neer (2015) propose that the geological data at other locations (near Esna, or at Wadi Kubbaniya) may also be reinterpreted in terms of the lake model (Vermeersch and Van Neer, 2015).
This model would also be consistent with available data from the Delta, if we consider that the reduced sediment input documented in geological cores in the eastern Mediterranean (Revel et al., 2015) and part of the Late Pleistocene sequences documented in the Delta (Stanley and Warne, 1993; Warne and Stanley, 1995) were deposited during occasional major floods that would have breached the sand dune dams.
Further field data are thus needed to confirm one or the other model. However, because both models are connected to evidence for human occupation, they imply availability of fresh water and habitability of the main Nile Valley during MIS 2. In addition, both models suggest similar mechanisms of water courses dammed by encroaching sand dunes. They differ in that the braided river model implies that sand dunes did not dam the Nile but rather only specific locations such as the mouth of wadis (e.g., at Wadi Kubbaniya), whereas the lake model implies damming of the Nile itself. The braided river model implies that the floodplain become inaccessible during the flood season, whereas the lake model implies habitability in restricted–but dynamic–zones (lakes) in an overall more stable environment. Nonetheless, because the Nile would have been a seasonal river in the braided river model, or would have resumed its course only during major Nile floods in the lake model, it can be inferred from both models that dammed lakes or seasonally filled depressions on the floodplain would have been attractive and predictable environments for human groups, particularly during the dry season.
Abstract from a separate study:
This model hypothesizes that, during the Late Pleistocene, and especially the LGM, dunes from the Western Desert invaded the Nile Valley at several places in Upper Egypt. The much reduced activity of the White Nile and the Blue Nile was unable to evacuate incoming aeolian sand and, as a consequence, several dams were created in the Upper Egyptian Nile Valley. Behind such dams the created lakes offered ideal conditions for human subsistence. This model explains the occurrence of Late Palaeolithic hunter–fisher–gatherers in a very arid environment with very low Nile flows, even in late summer.
--
Late Paleolithic industries:
Marine Isotope Stage 2 fossil record:
Are there any other ethnic groups in the world apart from the horn who are 40-50 natufian and mixed with some other ancient group like the one Somalis and Nilotics have in common?
For example the Greeks, portoguese, Albanians spaniards ? They don’t look like your average white European Germanic or English.
What’s their dna make up and who is their ancient mix.
For example the Greeks, portoguese, Albanians spaniards ? They don’t look like your average white European Germanic or English.
What’s their dna make up and who is their ancient mix.
You mean that this is using the wrong samples, like saying Somalis are 48 southern Bantu and the rest middle eastern and NA? While in fact the southern Bantu dna is from the cushites who migrated there and mixed with the arriving bantus?
The alchemist
VIP
It's not the same thing as what the study but similar in that their both wrong.
Step a side
VIP
They were still Natufian likeSomalis on haplogroup T and J1 have nothing to do with this. We arrived by ship across the Gulf of Aden in the second century
Step a side
VIP
we were ethiopians...this cant be id rather be a bantu or anything else not those guys not the raw meat eaters
the raw meat eaters (Habesha) are separate from these hunter gatherers. The Mota people were in Ethiopia way before Habesha, Oromo and Somalis.
These sorts of studies took the piss out of peer-review for me. I was debunking peer-reviewed papers and getting it right when I was 17. It's truly incredible how clownish a lot of academics are and how little they keep up with the rest of their field or even understand their own tools.
they still lived in their cursed land
So it’s a fraud studies ?
Mostly, yes. They're mostly just good for the new samples they give us but their actual inferences and sometimes even their straight data can be quite, for lack of a better word, retarded.
I meant that, they used a close population (southern Bantu) as a proxy to test Somali samples which is not accurate because Southern Bantus and Somalis share Cushitic dna, the same why using Yemeni samples as proxy because Yemenis and Somalis share Natufian DnaIt's not the same thing as what the study but similar in that their both wrong.
The alchemist
VIP
The only good things are from Max Planck, Reich Lab, and the broader disciplinary expert network that relates to them (not many). People outside that, man... it's like they come to write a hobby piece as a part-time thing with zero rigor.
Granted, what studies provide regardless is the forum. It stimulates the conversation nonetheless of whether they do a good or bad job. Moreover, the citations they bring are also valuable if one wants to go down a rabbit hole to build the specialized knowledge one seeks.
You also have one or two valuable sentences, oftentimes not involving the main research question premise, but that you find important, regardless if the study is overall buns in its promise and objective. So yeah, that is an honest and nuanced take from me and I think I am being too nice considering how much presence they demand to define the field yet not following through on their basic methodological attentions.
It's wild how a paper published last year indistinguishably parroted the 2014-17 discourse about northeast African genetic diversity.
The alchemist
VIP
It is the opposite. The Bantu got no Cushitc (overwhelmingly don't), and MENA got elevated SSA, thus overrepresentation. Commercial systems are not the same as studies.
Yemeni is not a bad proxy on a broad scale. Can't say the same for a Bantu.
The distance is more than double than when I used Yemeni. Tells you the genetic distance West-African genetics is from the East African.
Allhamdu lilah no more naked nilot
i aint no science guy ot nerd so what are we now? is the case finnaly solved?
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