This issue with Somali fathers sadly won't be disappearing anytime soon
- Thread starter Kisame
- Start date
Kisame
Plotting world domination
I was raised in a two parent household loool. You got the wrong gaal
Kisame
Plotting world domination
"A lot of Somali men are good dads and stay because they know there's no value in destroying their families this way, but there are many others that will leave their family on a random Tuesday and never look back."
The good dad's are out numbered by the bad ones
In the diaspora I agree. In Africa niggas are having babies a lot earlier than us in the west
Our culture is qashin and misogynistic when it comes to holding Somali men accountable. There are 0 laws to protect Somali women back home. Many of our women don’t seem to value themselves as well and have a ‘I can do everything’ mentality and seem to think letting blatant irresponsibility slide to make them across as some sort of raaliyo.
Any man that thinks Somali men don’t have it easy. You’re one of the few demographics of men who can marry a first wifeand completely start afresh with 0 financial obligations and debts and start a new family without any repercussions.
Another disgusting aspect of our culture is fathers expecting their kids to provide for them and their second wives. Walahi I’ve seen this in our community. Dad goes off, marries again and when kids are financially capable they ask for money under the guise of being their ‘abo’. I was watching a Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem video and he was talking about how as a father, you should avoid asking kids for money if you’re able bodied since you’re meant to be the provider especially when kids are first starting out in their career and he mentioned fathers asking kids to fund their second wives which is practically a ‘luxury’. Wallahi I instantly remembered our community.
Any man that thinks Somali men don’t have it easy. You’re one of the few demographics of men who can marry a first wifeand completely start afresh with 0 financial obligations and debts and start a new family without any repercussions.
Another disgusting aspect of our culture is fathers expecting their kids to provide for them and their second wives. Walahi I’ve seen this in our community. Dad goes off, marries again and when kids are financially capable they ask for money under the guise of being their ‘abo’. I was watching a Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem video and he was talking about how as a father, you should avoid asking kids for money if you’re able bodied since you’re meant to be the provider especially when kids are first starting out in their career and he mentioned fathers asking kids to fund their second wives which is practically a ‘luxury’. Wallahi I instantly remembered our community.
Can we stop hyper-genderizing everything please?
If Somali men are deadbeats who have it easy and are the crux of a lot of issues in the Somali community then other Somali males suffer from that believe it or not, considering they become fatherless and poor too, not just the females. Also wouldn’t Somali males also suffer from their deadbeat fathers expecting their children to provide for them unless it’s specifically their female kids they target? Either way they can’t have it easy if they’re the ones who also suffer from the ramifications they cause.
In the end of the day the gendered targeting never really makes any sense, everything’s so much more interconnected and messy than that.
Kisame
Plotting world domination
Tbh I think most of these fobs feel like losers in the west. It's hard to become financially stable in the west if you don't have a college degree or certifications. So most of these guys are stuck working warehouse and truck driving jobs.
Trying to pull chicks the halal way is going to be harder in the west since they're broke. The only western xalimos willing to give most of these guys a chance are the ones struggling to pull western farahs.
Id honestly hate to be in their situation. I wouldn't even consider living in the west long term if I was them. Id save up cash and start a business back home or in Kenya.
I’ve seen more fobs doing well for themselves compared to the ones who grew up here. I swear all you talk about is “pulling chicks” and N’word this N’word that.
Have you ever thought that maybe your gaal low resolution, s*x obsessed way of viewing the world doesn’t apply to the people you project it on? You’re literally the quintessential example of why gaals will never truly be happy no matter what they do, because they abandoned their belief in Allah and replaced their empty hearts with things like status and fornication as if that’s the goal in life.
It is a gender issue that impacts ultimately both genders. Everything women negative mostly do, even impacts other women as well and but it doesn’t stop it from being gendered.
We can already see the issues that it has caused with young men. I don’t need to go into it any further. Never claimed it only impacts women. Far from from it.
No, young Somali men are also impacted. I know of a lad who wanted to get married and couldn’t get help from Dad but abo still wanted his bill for the second wifey whilst his son is trying to save up.
It does. If one thing is mostly inflicted by one gender, then it should be called out. That doesn’t mean that what men do doesn’t impact young boys. It’s like saying the toxic habits of older gen women doesn’t impact young women. It does but it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s mostly women doing it.
Example, fobbish and older gen women are also an issue with regards to how they raise their sons, how they gossip with each other, how they sometimes have 0 compassion for their fellow women but cry foul when anything happens to them and their daughters. A lot of their actions impacts women, but it’s still a gender issue since it’s mostly inflicted by women.
johnsepei5
Head of Somalia freemasonry branch
shit I plan on doing the same thing having 3 wives,3 families
but I would never abandon any kids.
but I would never abandon any kids.
If I seen a criticism of what Somali women were disproportionally doing that Negatively impacts the Somali community on the whole I’d try to look into it further and see how Somali men were complicit, I’d also expect the criticism not to involve needless off-hand comments about how Somali women have it easy, or how qashin and misandrist the Somali community is where there is 0 laws protecting men even though the point being made really effects the whole community negatively and impacts the children more than the partner being shafted.
Essentially I’m not saying there isn’t a gender aspect to this issue, I’m saying you’re needlessly overgenderizing the issue to the point of making the partner (in this case the women) the biggest victims when we all know the real biggest victims are the children (which happen to be both male and female). This focus in your original comment shows where your agenda lies and is honestly quite concerning.
That can only be a fair point if men and women were equal socially and they’re not. Even in marriage, they’re not. Men can talaq under a second, for women getting a divorce can take more more than a year. Men and women aren’t the same and I find the attitude you encompass tries to downplay this. Men are not only meant to be the responsible party but they’ve been given extra privileges due to this. One party can divorce under a second, take on multiple wives, aren’t biologically tied to parenting and the list continues and then combine that with the fact that back home their isn’t a child support system? How can you then turn around and say what you’ve said?
Mothers suffer x5 more. They go through the pain yes intense pain of delivery, the pain and vulnerability of nursing and the fear and poverty of providing when dad decides he wants to use his priviliage of instant divorce without the responsibility aspect of it. It seems you have no compassion for mother who are the ones who also suffer alongside their kids.
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I don't think it's accurate to say they abandon their kids and start a new family.
What actually happens is that there is divorce and separation and then he might re-marry. The woman retains main custody of the child and then he might fall out of the picture.
Sometimes it's both parents fault because they let their unresolved issues against each-other get in-between them and the kids to successfully co-parent even when separated
Whereas other times it is just a result of a financial and social constraint, the father finds it difficult to delegate his financial and attention resources to both his immediate family and the other one at the same time.
The ''My dad chose me or his new wife and family'' is such a common trope in today's society.
This scenario and dilemma commonly happens in many different communities not just with Somalis even amongst White people and Arabs, more so i would say.
What actually happens is that there is divorce and separation and then he might re-marry. The woman retains main custody of the child and then he might fall out of the picture.
Sometimes it's both parents fault because they let their unresolved issues against each-other get in-between them and the kids to successfully co-parent even when separated
Whereas other times it is just a result of a financial and social constraint, the father finds it difficult to delegate his financial and attention resources to both his immediate family and the other one at the same time.
The ''My dad chose me or his new wife and family'' is such a common trope in today's society.
This scenario and dilemma commonly happens in many different communities not just with Somalis even amongst White people and Arabs, more so i would say.
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So are you saying wives do suffer more than their children when it comes to fathers/husbands disappearing?
Listen, if you wanna turn this conversation into some feminist discussion about how women have it so bad then you do you, just don’t pretend that your original aim was about how issues like this effect the community, just be honest and come out with it for real.
To come out and just state every point about how bad women have it over their children is wild to me, I get having priorities for certain causes (in your case feminism) but to put women over their children in terms of the victim hierarchy is just absurd, at this point you really don’t have empathy at all, you just have a victim complex mindset for women specifically without regard for those even more vulnerable (the children in this case) surely you can’t have meant what you said and I’ve just misunderstood you? This is a massive L take otherwise.
Even most single mothers would argue about how much worse their kids had it over themselves, unless they’re some sort of vulnerable narcissist.
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I’m comparing wife and husband. Also, the suffering of the wife and kids is equal. I’m sorry but if mum is suffering, so are the kids. You’d think that’s something most people understand. Do you truly think that it isn’t hand in hand? Do you really not understand the sacrifices mothers make?
This isn’t feminist. It’s basic understanding of the differences between mothers and fathers with regards to biology and how kids takes a toil on mothers more than fathers. Ever heard of things like PND? Ever heard of the fact that women can get diabetes through pregnancy? Lose their teeth? The nursing stage? And how do women deal with that whilst also having to fend for themselves and raise many kids?
Why do you think heaven is under the feet of our mothers and not fathers? Whose suffering does the Quraan talk about in detail? Is that feminist walal?
If this is ‘feminist’ then I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t help you if basic realities are feminist from your perspective and men like you will shut down any real meaningful dialogues since you want to evade reality. It’s toxic tbh and it’s disgusting.
This isn’t about your care for the Somali community, this is simply a way for you to go into defense mode. You’re accusing me of not caring about the kids and how I’m only focusing on the wives, when these wives aren’t just partners of MEN, they’re mothers of kids whose well-being is incredibly important and goes hand in hand when raising kids. You’d think that it’s common sense but when you’re so consumed by defense and unresolved sexism, this is the short-sightedness that is expected. You’ve shown your ignorance.
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@Abdirazaq
Im sorry you don’t understand motherhood. I grew up In a two parent household and I can still see the sacrifices and suffering of my mother. Even if I was to carry my mother on my back whilst doing tawaf, I still wouldn’t be able to pay her back.
Imagine if my mum went through all that pain and difficulty of sleepless nights and on top of that have to worry about MY next meal without a man in sight? I think my debt to her would be tenfold.
If you can’t understand this basic principle, then it’s YOU who is motivated by gender and want to simply downplay motherhood.
It’s disgusting to see we’ve reached a point in which talking about the suffering and difficulties of motherhood is now being labeled as ‘feminist’. It’s the height of ignorance to not understand that mothers are indeed the backbone of the family and that their suffering goes hand in hand when it comes to child development. You can’t center children without talking about mothers.
Im sorry you don’t understand motherhood. I grew up In a two parent household and I can still see the sacrifices and suffering of my mother. Even if I was to carry my mother on my back whilst doing tawaf, I still wouldn’t be able to pay her back.
Imagine if my mum went through all that pain and difficulty of sleepless nights and on top of that have to worry about MY next meal without a man in sight? I think my debt to her would be tenfold.
If you can’t understand this basic principle, then it’s YOU who is motivated by gender and want to simply downplay motherhood.
It’s disgusting to see we’ve reached a point in which talking about the suffering and difficulties of motherhood is now being labeled as ‘feminist’. It’s the height of ignorance to not understand that mothers are indeed the backbone of the family and that their suffering goes hand in hand when it comes to child development. You can’t center children without talking about mothers.
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Okay let’s just preface this, single mothers tend to have it the worst in terms of life when it comes to adults so don’t get me wrong, it’s also why they have the most protection in first world countries but fatherless kids still have it worse. The mental scars and lack of a father figure in someone’s life will literally shape a child’s life in terms of who they become, what they lack as adults and how they perceive reality. A fully formed adult female will suffer from the mental scars of a husband abandoning her but the scars won’t be as deeply impactful, long lasting and pernicious. This is just a L take, if you asked most women if they rather be abandoned by their father from a very young age or get abandoned by their husband now, most would easily choose to be abandoned by their husband no questions asked.
The original post was about how L is was for the community with fathers abandoning their family, your point was highly focusing on the women and now you’re literally going on about women losing teeth from this post, sounds kinda like you’re looking at things from a feminist angle just own it lol, be truthful with your agenda.
But this isn’t about children abandoning their mothers, it’s about fathers abandoning their family and the impact on the community I don’t get the point you’re trying to make here.
I’m not shutting down your conversation, I’m stating that you were diverting the conversation towards your agenda, which is fine, you can do that but don’t pretend you’re not doing that. I’ll engage with the conversation.
Have you seen the study that shows that single mothers from higher socio-economic backgrounds with male figures don’t have it worse than mothers of lower socioeconomic backgrounds?
The condition of the mother, her wealth, mental health ect, shapes the well-being of children. You’d think what I’m trying to say it’s straight-forward but you can’t see it since you’re in defense mode.
If mum is in a good position, so are the kids . Hence why I know a lot of people who grew up without a father but had a good childhood since their mothers were not from a poor socioeconomic background and had brothers and uncles to help.
No, but the sacrifices and physical and mental toil is deep Saxib. If we can acknowledge the difficulties of motherhood even partnered, imagine it is for them when single and of a lower socioeconomic background?
That’s an awfully weird comparison I’ve never made. It’s basically a question of, do you care more about yourself vs your future child?
If you knew anything about mothers, they’d rather suffer then that of their child? Would you rather you suffered growing up, or your future daughter suffer the difficulties of fatherhood and you as a woman going through the challenges of raising a child alone?
Really goes to show how clueless your ideas are.
I think you’d find that most would rather their children have better outcomes than they did. As parents, you always want your kids to do better than you. My mum grew up without a dad, and due to this it was even more important for her that we did.
No, it’s your inability to understand the plight of motherhood and it’s evident. If you deem mentioning the sacrifices of mothers as being feminist, then it’s worrying wallahi and shows you have deep issues.
You’re being silly now. Children have to obey and centre their mothers BECAUSE of the difficulties of motherhood. Hence imagine how difficult their job would be if dad leaves?
Its a simple concept and you either fail to see it or you’re arguing for the sake of it.
I merely mentioned this to showcase that mothers suffer and that’s a narrative even our holy Quraan touches upon. You seemed to have issues with me talking about the plight of mothers and saw it as feminist. My whole point is, if your own religion acknowledges and talked about it, then it’s equally important talking about it in this context when women have the added layer of issues of doing all of that alone.
No, you have an agenda and it’s one of defense. You don’t care about the well-being of children because if you did you’d understand how heavily it’s interwined with that of mothers.
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So then you don’t understand what it’s like to live in a single parent household? What’s your point.
True, but that doesn’t mean a single mother has it worse or as bad her children, it means that single mothers do amazing work in their situation which I absolutely agree with and their rewards will be plenty.
No, nobody on this thread genderized this issue anywhere near as much as you did. Remember your original post
just own it, I don’t even have problem with it if you owned it, but doing the deflecting no you kinda thing when I called you out is kinda cringe.
You don’t seem to understand that a single mother and her children are interlinked. If the mother has it bad, so do the kids and vice versa. The health and mindset of the mother impacts children immensely.
The men/fathers do have it easy though. That’s the truth.
1. Who is the one that carries the children, breast feeds,
2. Goes through all the health issues
3. When abandoned doesn’t get child support and has to mother and do the fathering at the same time?
Why do you have issues with the truth. Please answer the questions I’ve asked.
If your answer is mother, then please be honest and just be quiet.
You seem to want to create the narrative that acknowledging these basic truth means one doesn’t care about kids, when women’s mental and physical health and wealth is paramount for child development. You can’t truly care about children without caring about the mother. Hence why I find you disingenuous. I really do. It’s all about being on the defense and you’re using prioritizing the kids narrative whilst having issues acknowledging issues surrounding raising children without a supporting figure.
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