This cushtic nonsense needs to die

[Som]

Understanding cushitic history is useful to understand Somali history. Somalis , Oromo ,Afar and even Habeshas (language shifted Cushites) descend from the same ancient group and we are all "cousins". Other than this though cushitic is mostly a language category, there's south Ethiopian like konso who don't look much like somalis but still speak a cushitic language. Cushitic is just like Celtic a very ancient connection that is only useful to understand history, but it's quite ridiculous to base politics and nationalism on this. I'd rather base our relationship with our neighbors on possible common interests, shared history and economic integration.

 

[Som]

I was just stating a simple sociological fact in how being mixed race would be perceived in your hypothetical qabil based nationalism world.

Out of curiosity would a habar awal lady with an ethiopian husband be considered a proud lander?

Well Somalilanders love Ethiopia so I doubt they would have any issue with it
(Half joking)

 

[Garaad Awal]

I have half Yemeni-Somali cousins myself and it is weird how they come out. You start to understand how Habeshas and all other Horners mostly still look "Cushite". My cousins are at least 8 kids born to one mom and dad and are a perfect example of what I mean. 2-3 just look like lighter skinned Somalis, another 2-3 actually look straight up just Somali (wild) and then 1-2 look a little odd like they're Cadcad almost. But yeah, the majority of them pretty much just get by as normal Somalis.

I met a half CM half Yemeni in Berbera with his paternal Yemeni uncles out for lunch who knew my family back when he lived in Hargeisa. When I tell you this guy was pitch black. Genetics is weird.

I also have cousins who are quarter Yemeni and quarter Habesha who are both darker than me. Generally tho Yemeni admixed Somalis tend to be timo jileec never seen any with Northern Horn nappy hair.

 

[Suldaaanka]

I have half Yemeni-Somali cousins myself and it is weird how they come out. You start to understand how Habeshas and all other Horners mostly still look "Cushite". My cousins are at least 8 kids born to one mom and dad and are a perfect example of what I mean. 2-3 just look like lighter skinned Somalis, another 2-3 actually look straight up just Somali (wild) and then 1-2 look a little odd like they're Cadcad almost. But yeah, the majority of them pretty much just get by as normal Somalis.

If you don’t mind me asking, are your cousins maternally or parentally Somali?

 

[Shimbiris]

If you don’t mind me asking, are your cousins maternally or parentally Somali?

Their hooyo is the Yemeni:

Yemeni-Somalis in much of Somalia are pretty much Somalized. I have a first cousin whose hooyo is one from Bosaso. She does not speak one word of Arabic and sounds on the phone like a generic Somali eedo. But these are the ones who've been in Somalia for like 50 to 200 years. The recent refugees and migrants are a different story.

 

[TheLand]

I really wouldn't use a mentally ill uncle who writes entire theses to no one to demonstrate the general Somali mentality.

The user is not mentally well himself so what can you expect

 

[Duubpon]

I met a half CM half Yemeni in Berbera with his paternal Yemeni uncles out for lunch who knew my family back when he lived in Hargeisa. When I tell you this guy was pitch black. Genetics is weird.

I also have cousins who are quarter Yemeni and quarter Habesha who are both darker than me. Generally tho Yemeni admixed Somalis tend to be timo jileec never seen any with Northern Horn nappy hair.

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[Garaad Awal]

If you don’t mind me asking, are your cousins maternally or parentally Somali?

Paternally Somali (same clan as me)

 

[reer]

I have half Yemeni-Somali cousins myself and it is weird how they come out. You start to understand how Habeshas and all other Horners mostly still look "Cushite". My cousins are at least 8 kids born to one mom and dad and are a perfect example of what I mean. 2-3 just look like lighter skinned Somalis, another 2-3 actually look straight up just Somali (wild) and then 1-2 look a little odd like they're Cadcad almost. But yeah, the majority of them pretty much just get by as normal Somalis.

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[Fez]

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Its usually <2% brother

 

[Duubpon]

Its usually <2% brother

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[Fez]

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[Duubpon]

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[Shimbiris]

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Not true. I am a coastal northerner myself. Reer Sanaag iyo Bari (father was born in Laas Qoray) with relatively close 23andme coastal relatives stretching into Djibouti and have seen samples from that general area many times over the years that I am not related to. The vast majority have no such admixture beyond what's already in Somalis and is ancient.

 

[Duubpon]

Not true. I am a coastal northerner myself. Reer Sanaag iyo Bari with relatively close 23andme coastal relatives stretching into Djibouti and have seen samples from that general area many times over the years that I am not related to. The vast majority have no such admixture beyond what's already in Somalis and is ancient.

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[Duubpon]

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[Shimbiris]

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I am basically Warsan, saaxiib. A lot is overdoing it. It definitely happened. Has happened in my family as I've stated in this thread, but again, it's a tiny blip in terms of noticeable genetic admixture or the rare J1 carrier. The vast majority of coastal northerners have no such admixture.

 

[Duubpon]

I am basically Warsan, saaxiib. A lot is overdoing it. It definitely happened. Has happened in my family as I've stated in this thread, but again, it's a tiny blip in terms of noticeable genetic admixture or the rare J1 carrier. The vast majority of coastal northerners have no such admixture.

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[Shimbiris]

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Again, you're overstating it. There aren't a lot of such people They're at best a tiny minority and usually recent and know about the admixture like my cousin. I've been in the pop gen game for like 15 years and have never noticed some notable commonness of Arabian admixture in coastal northerners that isn't already in all other Somalis.

If you're referencing something like how the Yemeni in Somalis using nMonte and G25 can vary, even in interior Somalis, that's not really "Yemeni admixture variance", saaxiib:

To be honest, I think people are wasting their time trying to use G25 for modeling individuals. The PCA gets exceedingly wonky for many samples in this setting probably because its dimensions are now too affected by the sheer number of samples affecting the formation of the principal components.

Hence why you'll get nonsensical stuff like Somali samples whose overall MENA ancestry is negligible in range across the ethnic group (2%) then nonsensical results like one sample magically being 10% Arabian and the other 15%. It makes no sense until you understand how PCAs can work and what can affect their output; namely the number of PCs you limit the output to, the SNP count of the samples, and of course the samples used themselves. Not to mention how easy it is, like with ADMIX for things to be skewed by drift even within individuals samples.

When you consider those points it starts to make sense how an ethnic group that clusters so tightly, forms its own ADMIX component, has the same mtDNA lineages across a wide area and is dominated by mainly two greater Y-HGs is showing variation in G25 that makes zero sense. If we seriously had diverse Mota and Arabian scores we should cluster as heterogeneously as Oromos but we don't so it's clearly the methodology that's shooting out incorrect results. Not to mention that you can actually make almost any of these Somali samples show these ancestries they're supposedly missing if you just structure modeling a certain way. Folks need to exercise some critical thinking...

I really would advise people to just stick to the averages when studying ethnic groups via G25 and hope someone creates something like a really fine-scale ADMIX run or something similar for modeling individuals. This guy probably doesn't have any really different amounts of Mota or Arabian than anyone else given his typical overall admixture levels...

If you're fitting within the ~44-46% MENA admixture range of all other Somalis and can probably form the "Ethio-Somali" cluster with them or fit 95-100% within the Somali cluster on 23andme then, trust me, the variance in Yemeni nMonte is showing you is nothing.

If you actually show notable MENA on something like 23andme and/or vary from other Somalis notably in terms of admixture levels then have elevated elevated Yemeni that doesn't even look al-Jawf using nMonte like with all other Horners and you know about recent admixture then we can talk and that almost never happens.

 

[Garaad Awal]

If you actually show notable MENA on something like 23andme and/or vary from other Somalis notably in terms of admixture levels then have elevated elevated Yemeni that doesn't even look al-Jawf using nMonte like with all other Horners and you know about recent admixture then we can talk and that almost never happens.

My Mother doesn’t have it show up on Ancestry, generally falls in the Somali range of WE/SSA but knows about her recent Yemeni ancestry and has plenty of Peninsular Arab matches to prove it. I get where you are coming from but there are a lot of Somalis with Yemeni ancestry that 23&me doesn’t pick up and you can generally tell from qpadm or G25z

@giire12 for example is only 15% Arabian according to 23&me but on G25 once using Cushitic vs Arabian type model can hit 25-30% range. 22&me has Somali samples who are generally West Eurasian shifted. Ancestry has the opposite problem which is why every Somali picks up a minor Habesha component.