I’ve always wondered ( and please no tribal discussion, but honest observation), how is it Somali- “land” enjoys peace while Somalia on the other hand is dangerous and unstable, with people always travelling between the two places all the time. Who/what is contributing to this instability? I’m thinking there are those who don’t want to see a strong united and stable Somalia. Who are they? Ethiopia, Kenya, the Arabs, Somali”land”, Djanuti? Also, if the surrounding neighborhood can enjoy security why is it difficult to model their success?
The tale of the two Somalia’s
- Thread starter Xaawotaako
- Start date
SL is dominated by one tribe there is the occasional unrest but its more peaceful than somalia. Somalia is full of terrorists (who are probably bankrolled by foreign nations) also there is 10 'presidents' and countless tribal militias who are always fighting. Foreign countries actively interfere in Somalia. Extremist ideology is prevalent in somalia and people are killed over the smallest thing. The problem is very complex but it can be narrowed down to lack of govt control, rogue federal states, misinterpretation of islam and just general treachery (no loyalty to the state)
Somaliland enjoys peace? Haha, that's one way of saying they're slowly being colonised by Ethiopia.
Also, as you mentioned there are more foreign players involved in the south compared to the North. The wealth and future of Somalia lie in the fertile south, not the dusty north, that's why there is so much interference there compared to the north.
Also, as you mentioned there are more foreign players involved in the south compared to the North. The wealth and future of Somalia lie in the fertile south, not the dusty north, that's why there is so much interference there compared to the north.
From just my immediate family, Somaliland is not only one tribe, but I know several tribes that live in that area as well. That said, when I say peace, maybe not to the level of the West, but no Al-sh.. etc and all the crazy things happening in Somalia.
How can ethopia collonise SL while not having any troops in there. Meanwhile there are more then 10k ethopian soldiers in the south?
Somaliland is just made up of three major tribes (dir,isaaq and darood). That's it.
Somalia especially southern Somalia has hawiye, darood, Rahanweyn, bantus, reer xamar and other tiny clans.
Because of the economic and political importance of Mogadishu rival militias and now terrorists are competing for control.
The closer u are to Mogadishu the more dangerous it gets.
Other somali cities like dhusomareeb, Beledweyne, Kismayo even Baydhabo are way safer than Mogadishu when it comes to the risk of terror attacks
Somalis are nomadic, we don’t specifically stay in one region at all times, especially those who still live the traditional nomadic life. The borders are open. I know ppl who do business in both regions and travel without any trouble. Somaliland itself does have its issues. But, something is funding the chaos in Somalia and those who we shall not name, who are they? What is the Somali opinion, who and what is funding these lunatics?
It all comes down to $$$ and it’s $$$ that is contributing to this issue
Everyone is onto something. 2 things to blame
1. first thing is clan elders have little power to resolve conflict in the South. Why? because Afweyne and Italian governments monopolized conflict resolution in the South, exluding PL/Migiurtinia province. Likewise, the British and later Afweyne never operated outside of major cities thus clan elders resolved conflicts not the British. When Aftweyne was chased into Kiinya, the elders of ex British Somaaliland and the PL province of ex Somalia Italiana were uniquely prepared to formally assume the conflict resolution authorities they held
2. Number 2 Afweyne tribalism sowed the seeds of conflict and his hard headed refusal to leave peacefully ensured 90s chaos. Everyone knows about his tribalized "socialism" and tribal resettlement schemes pitting settler tribes against hosts tribes. Then USC/SPM liberation movements are about to take over the South. So, naturally Afweyne tried to stay in power by playing the Daaroodist card one more time
We saw what happens when a dictatorship collapses, after colonialists and said dictatorship displaced the very elders/peacemakers who were needed in 91
Warlords and terrorists inherited government powers when after Afweyne got chased into Kiinya and the Italian governments. Southern elders, excluding PL elders, had no authority to resolve conflicts
1. first thing is clan elders have little power to resolve conflict in the South. Why? because Afweyne and Italian governments monopolized conflict resolution in the South, exluding PL/Migiurtinia province. Likewise, the British and later Afweyne never operated outside of major cities thus clan elders resolved conflicts not the British. When Aftweyne was chased into Kiinya, the elders of ex British Somaaliland and the PL province of ex Somalia Italiana were uniquely prepared to formally assume the conflict resolution authorities they held
2. Number 2 Afweyne tribalism sowed the seeds of conflict and his hard headed refusal to leave peacefully ensured 90s chaos. Everyone knows about his tribalized "socialism" and tribal resettlement schemes pitting settler tribes against hosts tribes. Then USC/SPM liberation movements are about to take over the South. So, naturally Afweyne tried to stay in power by playing the Daaroodist card one more time
We saw what happens when a dictatorship collapses, after colonialists and said dictatorship displaced the very elders/peacemakers who were needed in 91
Warlords and terrorists inherited government powers when after Afweyne got chased into Kiinya and the Italian governments. Southern elders, excluding PL elders, had no authority to resolve conflicts
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Gadhwayne, thank you for your response. But, really all what you say doesn’t make sense in today’s situation I mean, I’m no spring chicken and the whole afwayne and the tribal elders/ colonial power dynamic seems so 1960’s. We have now generation of adults that have no knowledge of those ruling powers.
CanoGeel
"Show respect to all people, but grovel to none"
good analysis . that's really a plausible explanation,
It's because isaaqs are more civilised they know how to male a dowlad lakin the south have no clue
OffTheDome
Proud American
It’s simple actually…
Republic of Somaliland = civilized people
AMISOM protectorate of Somalia = uncivilized people
People in Somaliland are civilized people, if we disagree, the first thing we do is head to a tree sit down and solve it ourselves. Like Somali culture always been. Somalian people bomb the shit out of each other till there is a last man standing
Republic of Somaliland = civilized people
AMISOM protectorate of Somalia = uncivilized people
People in Somaliland are civilized people, if we disagree, the first thing we do is head to a tree sit down and solve it ourselves. Like Somali culture always been. Somalian people bomb the shit out of each other till there is a last man standing
It’s simple actually…
Republic of Somaliland = civilized people
AMISOM protectorate of Somalia = uncivilized people
People in Somaliland are civilized people, if we disagree, the first thing we do is head to a tree sit down and solve it ourselves. Like Somali culture always been. Somalian people bomb the shit out of each other till there is a last man standing
I wouldn't say people in Somaliland are civilized. I'd Say Isaaq are civilized. The other tribes that live in Somaliland showed their monkey ooga booga nature when they tried wiping us under Siad Barre. Even the so called miskeen midgaan took their shot
Still no answer.
Can't the leaders of Somalia just do what Somaliland did in 91-93
Sit and decide amongst themselves the best system of governance. And build from there. What they have now is artificial not grown through concensus.
Somaliland although corrupt now, it started with honest people from all parts coming together and finding commonground to create the nation. Corruption came in 2010 with kulmiye
Can't the leaders of Somalia just do what Somaliland did in 91-93
Sit and decide amongst themselves the best system of governance. And build from there. What they have now is artificial not grown through concensus.
Somaliland although corrupt now, it started with honest people from all parts coming together and finding commonground to create the nation. Corruption came in 2010 with kulmiye
Show me this civilization you bragging aboutI wouldn't say people in Somaliland are civilized. I'd Say Isaaq are civilized. The other tribes that live in Somaliland showed their monkey ooga booga nature when they tried wiping us under Siad Barre. Even the so called miskeen midgaan took their shot
Your country/people is drug addict paradise filled with potholes the size of nuclear bombs ive been to that shithole
There is a Difference between poverty and civility but your ooga booga monkey mind was triggered by the truth in what I said. You can be civilized. We'll help
looooool
It boils down to one simple concept:
Justice and equity.
Somaliland was imbued with justice and fairness from its very inception, not in 1991, but 1960.
A close reading of the results of the 1960 Somaliland elections reveals this. There were 4 competing parties, two of them were Isaaq whilst the other two were Dir + Darood:
- Somali National League (Isaaq) received 52.1% of the total vote.
- National United Front (Isaaq) received 24.89% of the total vote.
- United Somali Party (Dir + Darood) received 16.41% of the total vote.
- Somali Youth League (Dir + Darood) received 5.69% of the total vote.
The Isaaq parties received a staggering 77% of the total vote. This is a result that can not be replicated in any other Somali territory, simply because no single clan in any of the five Somali regions constitutes such an overwhelming majority like Isaaq in Somaliland.
But Isaaq, out of a sense of fairness and equity, gave the minority Dir + Darood, who received votes amounting to 22%, half the ministerial positions of the nascent State of Somaliland:
In the photograph you can see the entire cabinet of Somaliland present:
Mohamed Haji Ibrahim Egal (Isaaq)
Ahmed Keyse (Isaaq)
Ibrahim Nur Jama (Dir)
Ali Garaad Jama (Darood)
Imagine the same results of one clan receiving 77% of the total vote happening in Somalia, they would try and take 100% control of all positions. The Italian influence left a cut-throat winner takes all mindset that Somalia is still coming to terms with to this day.
Fast forward to 1991. Isaaq have defeated Afweyne's regime, and the minority Dir and Darood clans who were collaborators of Afweyne, and the willing instruments of his campaign of destruction against the Isaaq are now under the mercy of a victorious SNM. So what did Isaaq do?
All was forgiven.
Lets move on as a country once again. The defeated minority clans received the same representation as Isaaq subclans in the peace talks. Nothing close to what happened in the South when USC and SPM went ham on the defeated minority clans that supported Afweyne.
Even today, despite Isaaq being the overwhelming majority inside Somaliland, Dir and Darood clans receive more representation in government and parliament than their actual voting numbers would entitle them to. Somaliland became the first Somali territory where a minority clan became president through a democratic vote, winning against the longest serving SNM leader and the most respected living Isaaq politician. This would never happen anywhere else:
In the photo above, the VP Ahmed Yusuf Yasin is Isaaq and the President is Dir.
Contrast this mindset with what is happening in Somalia and you will instantly realise why Somaliland is doing this well. Beyond Mogadishu, just look at what is happening in Puntland region, where a single subclan monopolises every aspect of political life, including presidency.
Until Somalia embraces justice and fairness in the same way Somaliland has, there is no hope for any divergence from the status-quo.
Justice and equity.
Somaliland was imbued with justice and fairness from its very inception, not in 1991, but 1960.
A close reading of the results of the 1960 Somaliland elections reveals this. There were 4 competing parties, two of them were Isaaq whilst the other two were Dir + Darood:
- Somali National League (Isaaq) received 52.1% of the total vote.
- National United Front (Isaaq) received 24.89% of the total vote.
- United Somali Party (Dir + Darood) received 16.41% of the total vote.
- Somali Youth League (Dir + Darood) received 5.69% of the total vote.
The Isaaq parties received a staggering 77% of the total vote. This is a result that can not be replicated in any other Somali territory, simply because no single clan in any of the five Somali regions constitutes such an overwhelming majority like Isaaq in Somaliland.
But Isaaq, out of a sense of fairness and equity, gave the minority Dir + Darood, who received votes amounting to 22%, half the ministerial positions of the nascent State of Somaliland:
In the photograph you can see the entire cabinet of Somaliland present:
Mohamed Haji Ibrahim Egal (Isaaq)
Ahmed Keyse (Isaaq)
Ibrahim Nur Jama (Dir)
Ali Garaad Jama (Darood)
Imagine the same results of one clan receiving 77% of the total vote happening in Somalia, they would try and take 100% control of all positions. The Italian influence left a cut-throat winner takes all mindset that Somalia is still coming to terms with to this day.
Fast forward to 1991. Isaaq have defeated Afweyne's regime, and the minority Dir and Darood clans who were collaborators of Afweyne, and the willing instruments of his campaign of destruction against the Isaaq are now under the mercy of a victorious SNM. So what did Isaaq do?
All was forgiven.
Lets move on as a country once again. The defeated minority clans received the same representation as Isaaq subclans in the peace talks. Nothing close to what happened in the South when USC and SPM went ham on the defeated minority clans that supported Afweyne.
Even today, despite Isaaq being the overwhelming majority inside Somaliland, Dir and Darood clans receive more representation in government and parliament than their actual voting numbers would entitle them to. Somaliland became the first Somali territory where a minority clan became president through a democratic vote, winning against the longest serving SNM leader and the most respected living Isaaq politician. This would never happen anywhere else:
In the photo above, the VP Ahmed Yusuf Yasin is Isaaq and the President is Dir.
Contrast this mindset with what is happening in Somalia and you will instantly realise why Somaliland is doing this well. Beyond Mogadishu, just look at what is happening in Puntland region, where a single subclan monopolises every aspect of political life, including presidency.
Until Somalia embraces justice and fairness in the same way Somaliland has, there is no hope for any divergence from the status-quo.
