THE ORIGIN OF THE SAUDI KINGDOM (REBELLION)

Mohamedamiin120

Marxist-Leninist, OG.
This fellow is not a Sufi and thus if you do not agree with his views do not go after me, but he has made a great video about the early history of Wahhabism and the Saudi state, and how they takfired damn near all Muslims and committed khuruj (revolt against the khalifa) against the Ottomans.

 

cunug3aad

3rdchild · Alaa baruur le maahi badan le
This fellow is not a Sufi and thus if you do not agree with his views do not go after me, but he has made a great video about the early history of Wahhabism and the Saudi state, and how they takfired damn near all Muslims and committed khuruj (revolt against the khalifa) against the Ottomans.

Jzk I was aware of some of this history already of MIAW and his followers but not too much because i wanted to have unbiased source not making proboganda against him or for him, it is the main detriment towards his work that he is so light on his takfiir which is unfortunate because of how well he revived the Islaam from the bad practices. Unlike you i support salafi reformation of somalia i saw an old post by @Shimbiris he was talking about how historically somalis werent as strongly religious as now and often absorbed parts of the old beliefs into their form of shaafici islaam that being the reason why such little hijaab is seen in those older photos. However i prefer to call them jaahil rather than kaafir
 

NoticeNoticer

NoticingSomeThings
Saudi Arabia was formed when Arabs in that region were told that the ottomans were treating them like shit (they weren’t) and then Arabs worked with langaab cadaans and yahuuds to destroy the ottoman caliphate.

They are now reaping what they sadly sowed. Had they not worked with yahuuds and the ugly British mf’s the Middle East would be different.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
Jzk I was aware of some of this history already of MIAW and his followers but not too much because i wanted to have unbiased source not making proboganda against him or for him, it is the main detriment towards his work that he is so light on his takfiir which is unfortunate because of how well he revived the Islaam from the bad practices. Unlike you i support salafi reformation of somalia i saw an old post by @Shimbiris he was talking about how historically somalis werent as strongly religious as now and often absorbed parts of the old beliefs into their form of shaafici islaam that being the reason why such little hijaab is seen in those older photos. However i prefer to call them jaahil rather than kaafir

Abdulaziz ibn Abdulrahman al-Saud, known to the west as Ibn Saud, and his ancestors alongside the Sheikh family who descend from Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab were, in my opinion, a net good for Arabia. Before them the Ottomans were basically declining and Arabia had become chaotic, divvyed up by various powers, given to tribal warfare and practiced shirk enmasse.

One thing I think people miss about the history of Islam is that it was a stabilizing, strengthening and civilizing force for Arabia. It took a disunited, constantly infighting, raiding obsessed and exploited people (Romans taking Northwest, Sassanids taking Northeast, East and even the Southwest) and made them a global power equal to or greater than Rome and Iranshahr at their heights.

The so-called "Wahhabi" movement pushed by Ibn Saud and his allies was very much a second-coming and revival of this. Ibn Abdul-Wahhab was discontent with the state of Arabia, as were his later descendants who were Ibn Saud's contemporaries. So, they took an Arabia divvied up by tribal fiefdoms, by outside powers, by a weakening Ottoman Caliphate and given over to superstition, raiding and chaos so much that it was becoming unsafe for Muslims to perform their pilgrimage and made it an orderly, united and more settled nation that could be well-poised for eventually exploiting its oil reserves and now becoming a cornerstone of the global economy and geopolitics.

And they accomplished all of that by, in their view, remaining as true to the ways of life and behaviors of the Nabi (SAW) and his companions. I always laugh when these ignorant westerners blabber on about how it was "the oil" that made them. You can maybe claim this about the little British client states like Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE but Sa3udiya was united, functioning and remarkable—if not only "poor" by modern standards—well before oil. And this simply would not have been possible without the civilizing and stabilizing ideology of the Ikhwan movement and Islam. Ibn Saud eventually had to dismantle those chaps but make no mistake, they gave him that country.

8JO4iLE.jpeg
Z1zuuOi.jpeg


Please give these a read and gain a nuanced perspective on this brilliant man who was, in my view, one of the greatest Arabs ever born after the Nabi (SAW).
 
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Mohamedamiin120

Marxist-Leninist, OG.
He also has another (waaaay longer)
Nga really said khalifah😹
They were universally recognized as Khalifa by the vast majority of the ulema withen ASWJ when the Abbasids fell and they took up the title, and in coming decades were recognized by every person (Muslim and Kaffir) as the leader of the Muslims.

Also not even the Saudis agree with you they actually let Amdulmejid II (last Ottoman Caliph) be buried in Medinah...

1758638876691.png
 
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He also has another (waaaay longer)

They were universally recognized as Khalifa by the vast majority of the ulema withen ASWJ when the Abbasids fell and they took up the title, and in coming decades were recognized by every person (Muslim and Kaffir) as the leader of the Muslims.

Also not even the Saudis agree with you they actually let Amdulmejid II (last Ottoman Caliph) be buried in Medinah...

View attachment 374012
The prophetﷺ said the caliphate will end 30 years after my death and it ended when ali عليه السلام was killed, after that it was kingdoms and empires
 
I once read somewhere that saudis are not even real muslims and are the lost tribe of Jews that the PBUH kicked of Mecca , they came back in the 1700s to Arabia .
Fun fact the vast majority of Saudi’s don’t go to Mecca and pray even tho it’s in their country .

Another fun fact about saudis , that family has been sending their sons to England and America to study since the 70s and all they do is get drunk pay for prostitution some times male on male sex and bribe the university to pass their sons because they are to dumb to study and pass .

the saudis are the poison in the blood of the ummah .
 
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cunug3aad

3rdchild · Alaa baruur le maahi badan le
Abdulaziz ibn Abdulrahman al-Saud, known to the west as Ibn Saud, and his ancestors alongside the Sheikh family who descend from Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab were, in my opinion, a net good for Arabia. Before them the Ottomans were basically declining and Arabia had become chaotic, divvyed up by various powers, given to tribal warfare and practiced shirk enmasse.

One thing I think people miss about the history of Islam is that it was a stabilizing, strengthening and civilizing force for Arabia. It took a disunited, constantly infighting, raiding obsessed and exploited people (Romans taking Northwest, Sassanids taking Northeast, East and even the Southwest) and made them a global power equal to or greater than Rome and Iranshahr at their heights.

The so-called "Wahhabi" movement pushed by Ibn Saud and his allies was very much a second-coming and revival of this. Ibn Abdul-Wahhab was discontent with the state of Arabia, as were his later descendants who were Ibn Saud's contemporaries. So, they took an Arabia divvied up by tribal fiefdoms, by outside powers, by a weakening Ottoman Caliphate and given over to superstition, raiding and chaos so much that it was becoming unsafe for Muslims to perform their pilgrimage and made it an orderly, united and more settled nation that could be well-poised for eventually exploiting its oil reserves and now becoming a cornerstone of the global economy and geopolitics.

And they accomplished all of that by, in their view, remaining as true to the ways of life and behaviors of the Nabi (SAW) and his companions. I always laugh when these ignorant westerners blabber on about how it was "the oil" that made them. You can maybe claim this about the little British client states like Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE but Sa3udiya was united, functioning and remarkable—if not only "poor" by modern standards—well before oil. And this simply would not have been possible without the civilizing and stabilizing ideology of the Ikhwan movement and Islam. Ibn Saud eventually had to dismantle those chaps but make no mistake, they gave him that country.

8JO4iLE.jpeg
Z1zuuOi.jpeg


Please give these a read and gain a nuanced perspective on this brilliant man who was, in my view, one of the greatest Arabs ever born after the Nabi (SAW).
InshaAllaah i will read in future. The issue i take with sucuud primarily and MIAW a bit less is that they had made this revival with an agenda in mind to take control of arabia, they took advantage of the fervor that spawned from MIAW's works whilst collaborating in varying degrees with the british, you can see when the fervor they built with ikhwaan eventually came to face their nuance approach they took the betrayal route that would get them power. Of course you can take the view that no movement is without some sort of concession so it just becomes how willing are you to overlook those concessions for the greater good
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
InshaAllaah i will read in future. The issue i take with sucuud primarily and MIAW a bit less is that they had made this revival with an agenda in mind to take control of arabia, they took advantage of the fervor that spawned from MIAW's works whilst collaborating in varying degrees with the british, you can see when the fervor they built with ikhwaan eventually came to face their nuance approach they took the betrayal route that would get them power. Of course you can take the view that no movement is without some sort of concession so it just becomes how willing are you to overlook those concessions for the greater good

Ibn Saud's relationship with the British is complex. On the one hand he was very much tempered by a harsh lesson his family learned from the First Saudi State. They rose up against the Ottomans when that empire still had some teeth. It ended horrifically for them. The ruler was taken to Istanbul and executed alongside his MIAW collaborators. The Ottomans even forced the poor guy to listen to a lute before they killed him then crushed his skull like a walnut to "crush the bad ideas within". Their whole line was nearly wiped out.

After that Ibn Saud's family learned to never again rear their heads against Great Powers like the Ottomans, the Brits or anyone else. Know your strength; you're not in these people's lane. He also spent a good chunk of his formative years in Kuwait as a refugee from the Rashid Family having taken Riyadh from his fam. There he met Mubarak who took Ibn Saud under his wing and he noticed how Mubarak very cleverly played Great Powers against each other to his benefit. Cutting deals with the Ottomans one minute then the Russians another then the Brits or Germans at yet another and always making sure never to offend any of them or come down too strongly for any particular side. Mubarak had mastered the art of being a small-state in a multi-polar world.

Contrary to popular belief, right up until the final uprising led by the Hashemites, Ibn Saud very frequently capitulated before the Ottomans. Even when he engaged occasionally against them he'd find some excuses and send them letters where he spoke in length regarding his loyalty to the Sultan/Caliph, lol. He did the exact same thing to the British, Germans and other groups. He just had this general policy of pragmatism in regards to the Great Powers of the region.

But, with Britain, I think he was slightly biased overtime with the fact that he formed close friendships with some British Arabists like Philby. These were honestly at times pretty "nice" and sincere guys who took the time to learn Arabic and Arabian history and even frequently sided with Ibn Saud's plights against the British government and lobbied on his behalf to the higher-ups who snobbishly hardly ever listened and snubbed Ibn Saud for years on and off. His relationship with those types and the fact that occasionally he could get concessions from Britain made him pretty partial toward Great Britain.

In a way, he felt like they were the only Great Power that really did anything for him as even the Ottomans, toward the end, got pretty snooty and entitled and dismissive and even aided his enemies at times like the Rashids. But even when the Ottomans were good for him, it was becoming apparent that they were soon to be out the door.

Nevertheless, in the end he snubbed Britain too when he realized they were snubbing and mistreating him quite often when those higher-ups didn't take the advice of his friends. He pretty much showed them the door in favor of the USA when they discovered the oil reserves, to their dismay. Guy was ultimately practical. Just sided with whatever power seemed to really help him and his people but made sure, most of the time, never to intentionally offend any power, even when he snubbed them for another. He legit avoided invading Yemen at times just to avoid pissing off the Italians, for example, from what I recall.

As for his treatment of the Ikhwan. I get the sense Ibn Saud was never as conservative as his as-Sheikh allies. Before winding up in Kuwait he spent a good chunk of his youngest years living among the al-Murrah of the Rub al-Khali. Bedouins of Bedouins, those sxbs. There he noticed how they kept a lot of pre-Islamic customs going like revering the Djin and just being lax in their practice overall. Definitely, I and some authors like to think, opened his mind to the fact that one doesn't need to be so rigid all the time. But of course I won't attack the guy's piety. He was always reported to pray 5 times a day and was until his death a devout Muslim.

But even so, he was definitely more "pragmatic" and "lax" than his Ikhwan allies and would, for example, let western guests he had consume alcohol and tobacco in their private tents. Hell, he'd sometimes send some to them himself. The guy was, honestly, in a lot of ways pretty weirdly liberal and some of the more serious of his Ikhwan followers just weren't having it and felt he was too loose and too pragmatic about allying with what they saw as "Christian powers". Shit was looking pretty bad for him until the Ulema dropped the old "LOYALTY TO THE LEADER!" proclamation and he was basically given free-reign to deal with the Ikhwan rebels and dismantle them.

Nevertheless, he still spent much of his reign still playing to the more conservative wing of his followers. He never tried to go too far with more liberal policies and reforms. Always reading the room and seeing what was a step too far of policies. He'd even take the time to frequently reason with them. For example, when some of his followers felt radios were sinful and from the devil he had someone play the Qur'an to them via radio and said, "How can this be the work of the Shaytan if it plays and can spread the word of God?". A pragmatist at his core. Judge that how you will, personally.
 
Because it is the universal opinion among the Rafidah that the ottomans were not caliphs and that the caliphate ended after Ali (as).
No it's not, the rafidhaha don't even believe abu bakr,umar and uthman were legit caliphs and ali was the righteous one let alone for them to call ANY muslim kingdoms or empires a caliphate
 

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