The Only Democracy To Work In Somalia

Discussion in 'Somali Politics' started by DR OSMAN, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    The only democracy that will work in Somalia is the SYL version. The idea is to create parties, ensure they have percentage of each region of Somalia in their party so it is a national party. Make sure no tribe party is possible by putting a 'quota' on each party to ensure it's party has representatives from all Somalia. So this will result in each party looking 'identical' tribally so Somali voters will not vote for tribe but will vote for 'idealogy'.

    Ask each party to campaign in the regions, when they win the region, in the federal parliament they will be given a seat based on what region they won and their allocated quota of parliamentary seat for that region or district. The winning party will then elect the party leader in a 'secret' caucus or ballot after such time we know which party won the most seats in the federal parliament. So at no times will you know who is going to 'lead' the party or nation, you will only vote for party in election time and party idealogy, why do you care who leads and his tribal background, you will only find out who the leader of the government is once party votes are counted from each district in Somalia. They will share the parliament based on the parliamentary quota system they agree on for each district in the nation.

    What do you think of that democracy set up @PhySom

    We ain't going to do shit like Somaliland, that's not a democracy, that's all fake attempts and tribal. People vote on tribe there and which clan their party is joining. For example HJ will always vote kulmiye since their clan owns the party. Sacad muse will vote Kulmiye since HJ gave Muse bihi the party leadership. U see their democracy follows 'tribe' it doesn't follow idealogy. Wadani will always be HY since the party is founded by them and led by them. Idealogy is a mute point in SL, it's not even relevant, it's just party politics and what tribe leads what party.

    Get your frickin warsangeli ass in here @PhySom and talk about what sort of model can we implement in Somalia to have a proper democracy that is voted on idealogically? I personally prefer no democracy till our nation is intelligent enough for the vote and financially independent, but that is another debate all together. I am speaking from point of view, if we are forced to accept democracy, we will need to work on models that will work with our culture and ensure idealogy is the only reason someone gets a vote. So we will need to ensure the parties are set up right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  2. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    @Dues Ex Machete come in here bro so we can start planning the democracy in Somalia. They seem to love this system the Deni Generation kids(1960 kids). How we going to get it to work?

    1. Allow any number of party as long as they can secure 20% quota in each region of Somalia. Each party must have a national face, it must comprise 18 regions. This must be firm rule. No party can have regional or tribal face. If it doesn't have members from 18 regions in their party, it's null n void. Do u agree?

    2. District sharing of parliament. We need to scrap 4.5 and tribe. Each district will be given a quota based on their population size(urban, coastal, farming, nomadic needs counting). We need a proper census for this or at least a proper formula that all Somalis agree on for estimations not NGO estimations, untill the ISIMO sign of on it as the 'real census or estimation' of Somalia, we must not accept any census or estimation cause it's futile and pointless.

    3. Idealogy. To ensure Somalis vote on idealogy, we must ensure each party has a fixed idealogy and all it's members of the party believe in that idealogy. The idealogy must be about what they can do for the country and economy or security or foreign policy wise. It must addresses the concerns of Somalis of it's time period.

    4. Each party must be told not to select it's leader before the election. We must let their members slug it out in each district and region for MP spots in parliament. Once we know which party secured the largest portion of parliament seats, we will ask that party to name it's leader and government. This ensures no1 will know who is president till the elections are over and MP seats are decided for which party.

    5. Do we want elections based on parties forming coalitions and sharing parliament and idealogies? This means their parties will need to form coalition and combine forces if they don't feel secure they can win with their own party. For example if a party is strongly popular in the south and another one is popular in PL. They can form a coalition party and then divide the government between their 'parties'. Or if they're is a party that is strong in SL and PL, they can cut a deal to form a coalition against the south in order to form a government. SL and the South can form a coalition also if they feel their parties can negiotate their policies while keeping their 'base voters' in their region while incorporating another region strong party base. Sometimes coalitions fail cause they fear they may lose their 'strong supporter base region' and may not want to negiotate with another party in coalition as the switch in idealogy could cause lot of their loyal voters leaving the party.

    Let's talk the options of Somalia, stop wasting your time with that @Lex Luther and @Mckenzie you know they won't ever provide solutions. Help us in PL as we work on solutions for Somalia.

    You know if PL is going to do Democracy, it will be one you will be proud of. It won't be that fake shit SL has. We created the SYL party remember? Democracy didn't start in Waqoyi sxb. It started in 1969, PL is the inventor. SL is copying and still can't do it properly since their party politics is based on tribe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  3. Dues Ex Machete

    Dues Ex Machete

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    I think Nabad iyo Nolol made it popular for parties to think about their message in a way that Somalia hasn't seen since SYL. Before this administration no one knew or cared about parties or political groups. Now you see many different oppositions come up with Parties and slogans. But in my own belief democracy works best if the population is educated and can make decisions based on reason with a grasp of history.
    I agree the 4.5 system is not something we can rely on in the long term since it's a way for clan resentment to be stoked. So I would definitely be for district-based allocations for mps. Once the population has been determined to be sufficiently educated/literate is when true democracy or one-man one-vote can be implemented.
     
  4. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    The thing is if all parties are based on ideas and have exact same quota in terms of tribal distribution aka regional distribution as they need to meet a quota or something. Noone will care for tribe cause all the parties have every tribe in it anyways. Plus we won't care who is leader of each party, since that will be done in secret ballot of caucus after we know which party won the election. So tribe won't have a role to play in our election whatsoever and will be pure ideas. Population and how many seats a district gets won't matter since noone is voting for tribe, they just want more seats so their tribe has larger say so they can elect their tribe right now. But once the tribe factor is gone, district sharing will be quick process since they know each tribe is in each party and can be potential leader.
     
  5. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    @Dues Ex Machete the other model we can try is. Each region has it's own party, it's called their regional party, they come to parliament negotiate with each other in coalitions to steal as many seats regionally in the nation. PL has it's own party. SL it's own. GM it's own. HS it's own. U see the pattern right? then at federal parliament, they convene and begin federal politics each caring for his own region interest and negiotatin with other regions who can form some sort of common interest.

    I want see a big party though, PL must spearhead the REGIONALISM PARTY and bring all the regions into one party on common region issues. While you can have your CENTRALISM HAMAR FIRST PARTY and see how many regional states you can secure. Not the way u do it now, but in a proper democracy with constitution, constitutional court, laws, etc.
     
  6. Dues Ex Machete

    Dues Ex Machete

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    @DR OSMAN

    Trust me sxb bringing back courts systems and ratifying a solid constitution is on the top of my list when it comes to priorities for the country, but right now the FGS has to combat rampant corruption that has been commonplace within the Transitional administrations. Compare this government where the PM and President have had zero Public disagreements or "khilaafs" to HSM and Shiekh Sharif who had multiple issues between them and their Prime Ministers. Also look at how many ghost soldiers were being paid by the FGS and now that they introduced a biometric system where each soldier gets paid directly with no middleman and thus no ghost soldiers. The next step is making sure arimaha gudaha is tampered down and neutralized before getting too deep into arimaha dibada. There are groups within the country that have financially capitalized on the lawlessness and see a return of government as a direct threat to their ill-gotten gains. Also many of the reer badiyo or less educated individuals know that if the country becomes prosperous the Diaspora will return and dominate the country which would not bode well for their upward social mobility. Combine that with certain maamul gobaleeds, PL being the foremost in open opposition to the FGS and doing a foreign nations bidding (UAE) and you'll see why it's necessary for a government to gain control over its own territory before approaching the world stage. That has been the biggest issue within Somalia the different groups can't come to a heshiis or understanding without outsiders and foreigners intervening.

    It's a shame that Somalis need the UN or AMISOM to negotiate between them or keep the peace between them, this shows you a lack of understanding or even basic etiquette. And when you have a whole generation that has been living with no government or basic institutions (Post-91) the situation becomes exacerbated and more volatile. I don't even support Farmaajo because of his tribe since he hasn't done much for them to prove he's not qabilist like many of his detractors would like to paint him as, but he's actually looking to stabilize the nation and for that I commend him.
     
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  7. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    Sxb the problem with Farmajo is he lets Khayre do his dirty work and let khayre 'take the fall' while he keeps a squeeky clean image. You really think Khayre would be able to have this much say in the govt if farmajo didn't sit the kid down and say, I will make u PM but I want you to do this and that and I will step away from your duties? Kheyre is actively doing Farmajo bidding for him, while he symbolically walks around the nation acting like a statesman and loved by the people to sell that image of nabad and nolal.

    Sxb run hadad rabtid mise HG iyo Isaaq runtooda ba rabta? If you lead Somalia, to build a government you need to analyze the people 'views' and 'values' and 'concerns'. You can't impose something on them because it's your VIEW ONLY, you will struggle to create something from the TOP down, intan abudwak tago, it's pointless I spent all my tax money or donor funds to convince them to follow what I think is best for Somalia. If I am wadani, I will say to abuudwaq, fadlan tashta markad tashatan i will incoporate it into the Somalia model.

    That's the only thing I hate about Farmajo wuxu raba inu dadka ku daaqo siyasadisa, which is one man view on somalia vs a whole REGIONS VIEW OF SOMALIA.
     
  8. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    Yo @Dues Ex Machete I think when I go to Somalia and meet diaspora kids. I will open a 'western think tank' which will be pure 'english' based since we are diaspora kids. I want to start winning diaspora kids hearts n minds so when we are 60 and it's our time to rule, I already got a good team going. I want to be able to use this lobby group to influence the PL govt and Somalia govt. I will have strong contacts in the west who will like our 'scientific' approach since it's the only thing the west works on itself. I can warn Somali older generation, science is the future and politics is a SCIENCE.

    So yeah 'Diaspora 91 burbur kids' lobby group is what I want to call it. Warn PL/SFG, we are the kids who will run this country in 30-40 years. We are preparing our policies, our models, methods, so if you fail as a generation to sort this shit out, we need to reflect on what we want to create somalia to look like since all your old generation will be dead or old. Since we are burbur kids we really have no bias on Somalia since we never ever saw a working somalia, all we know is the burbur and our western education and scientific minds.
     
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  9. Dues Ex Machete

    Dues Ex Machete

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    I think that is a great idea sxb and would definitely support any think tanks within Somalia that look at danta guud (Common interest) not dan gar ah (Specific group interest). Diaspora kids definitely have the potential to be a strong backbone for Somalia since most of the country's intellectuals are not within the country. The worst part of the civil war apart from the deaths is the brain-drain that occurred when the elites left.

    I understand your issue with Farmaajo's approach is that he's trying to implement his ideal version of the country, but as you said politics is a science and he has a masters in Political Science the man knows what he is doing. However a single person or a group (N&N) can only do so much without all of the citizens participating in the nation building process. If you are mucarad, don't side with the country's enemies because of a disagreement with the approach of that government. That's a fundamental premise for state-building but somalis have combined ignorance with jealousy and tribalism which is a recipe for unending disaster. Many people are of the mindset "Ano qabil hebel maxa asaga uu dhagaysanaya waa qabil hebel" which is what put us in this predicament where a somali politician or elder would rather be told by a Bantu AMISOM or Cadaan UN spokesperson what is right and wrong rather than his fellow countrymen.
     
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  10. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    @Dues Ex Machete I always fear the world is keeping Somalia like this and enjoying it like this as they want our old people to die so only 91 kids are left who only know destruction. This allows for cultural change to be done on them since they have no cultural guidance anymore since their old generation died not creating a government for them to protect their identity, religion, language, and even tribal histories. This is what I fear the most. Are the world saying to themselves. Once these oldies are gone, we can control the 'destruction' era kids who are under our 'laps' in the west or 'arab world' and have them create a somalia that is purely in their vision? what's stopping them right now is the old generation are still here but there stuck in tribal shit and dan gaar ah not knowing the pitfalls of what their doing to their nation.

    I heard sade is pretty damn gob dhinaca dhaqanka and I see the sade kids in our generation who are very dhaqan focused in comparison to even other darod clans which is a good sign, we will need these people to remind us of our history, culture, language, and the vision of our forefathers not just have some diaspora kid who comes from whatever diaspora he is located and tries to recreate his diaspora in somalia.

    One of the first things I am creating is a Museum for all regional governments to store their history be it 'oral transmission' 'written transmission' 'artifacts' they must tell us about Somalia History Since the Sayid and the different eras, the pitfalls, what happened, what could've solved it up untill 1991. After that we need the destruction history so we never repeat the destruction so we need the museum to discuss all the destruction side of our history.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  11. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    I know the destruction ama the 'inventor' was Abdillahi Yusuf, he didn't carry it out though, he wasn't the IMPLEMENTOR. He was the 'visionary' for this 'qabiil' shit because it didn't exist before him as a movement or jabhad. He turned qabil into violent movement, it wasn't even political, it's objectives was thru the use of force. He inspired the other Jabhads sxb to copy him, which is a shame because the USC fully implemented the destruction. It wasn't even the SNM, if that was all Somalia had which is northern war we would still be functioning today, as the siyad forces would've destroyed SNM. If USC didn't start pushing south, they were nearly done with Waqoyi. USC made the Siyad boys walk away because the capital and center of Somalia needed saving.

    So as we view Sayid as the inspiration for Somalinimo and Darawish soldiers as the implementors. We must view the destruction in the same way. Abdillahi Yusuf is the inspirator. The implementors were USC. Because SSDF finally retreated and surrendered and joined the government. They didn't physically destroy Somalia but they INSPIRED IT WHICH IS JUST AS BAD.

    @Dues Ex Machete Do u think that's a fair assessment of the Jabhad era? that's how my father said it happened and my mother agreed. The destruction period though my father was away diaspora. 91-2004 needs another 'investigation' this is the HG era.
     
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  12. Dues Ex Machete

    Dues Ex Machete

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    That is a fair assessment in my view. As you said the SSDF movement was the first group to try a coupe and thus the progenitor of the jabhad model of qabils taking up arms against the government, but they came to the table, negotiated with the government and eventually came to an agreement. However at that point Pandora's Box was already opened and the situation was getting out of control as other clans took that model and carried out the legwork. The offensive in the North would have been quelled by the troops stationed there. But the uprisings in the central regions and Mogadishu surroundings made the situation unsalvageable. The HG era ended pretty much when Aydiid died in the mid 90s, they were united only in the fight against Darood and once they lost their head they became very disunited. You can see that when they didn't even allow Abdiqasim to enter Mogadishu. The nail in the coffin for them was Abdullahi Yusuf bringing Xabeshi and giving abgaals the leg up in the city since they are more willing to cooperate. Which is why any siyaasi will tell you HG depleted a lot of their resources, fighting power, and overall tabar. By taking that jabhad model to the extreme and instead of being an insurgent group against the dowlad (government) they tried to fight an entire qabil (darood). Combine that with them fighting other hawiye subclans it's not surprising for the post-91 shacab to take an approach of containment since their practices have been deemed to be not apart of Somali daqan.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  13. Tukraq

    Tukraq

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    parties are important, we need at least two totally opposing parties to go at it at every level, to make it harder to pass bills and scrutinize everything that happens in the government and cause frequent gridlock, this is so nobody can be stepped on as they can run to the other party for support on an issue and everyones ideas are represented, it also destroys chances of outside influence by not giving either party power over the other
     
  14. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    You made strong valid points brother. Anigu wixi caqli gal ah ma diidayo. SSDF didn't go around and genocide marehan clans in abudwak because siyad was marehan. HG fucked up with that turning the shit in qabil and not keeping it just 'govt focused' like the SSDF did. Their was difference in jabhads, one clearly had 'tribal genocide' in mind. He was confusing the dhulbahante-marehan-ogaden who were MOD as 'darod entity', if he was darod entity, why did he massacre majerten clansmen, they didnt give a shit about qabil, they were maintaing qaran interest. They only laid off majerten the govt not because of qabil but because of a TOTAL SURRENDER TO THE QARAN. So I can see from the perspective of aideed he would've said 'look at this' darodka ayaa uu wada safan siyad barre and convinced his tribesman this is dawlad qabil, ma aha. Wa dawlad ilalinayso somalinimada iyo qaranimada only, wax kale heeshish kuma ahayn darod.
     
  15. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    @Dues Ex Machete Come in bro to discuss deeply these matters. I remember 99, abgaal and medina side was totally locked down for abgaal, they were protecting their 'area'. What shocked me was the HG who were not from Mogadishu sitting in southern mogadishu on Somali properties, bakaraha, etc. These were the boys I knew had 'nothing' to lose, but 'abgaal' has something to lose, waba degaankisa. I would negiotate with abgaal before HG, he has no 'stake' whatsoever in Hamar, hence his vision will only be to keep the status quo how it is.

    Their not 'bad' people in the sense how some of you guys portray it. I was there, you could live there, many darods did, but you were not 'armed' since you had no 'ciidaan' presence. They used 'military' approach to keep southerners hostage, abdillahi yusuf had to free the southerners to take back their degaan since you can only negiotate with someone who has a STAKE in the area.

    How you going to negiotate with me a Majerten about 'beletwayne' matters? I don't have a stake there, so if I send my soldiers and do what HG did and sit there and just open up 'isbaaro' and let time tick away with no solution, there is no point you coming to talk to me about beletwayn. U need to remove me as a 'spoiler' with other agendas which is clearly not Somali focused. HG runta ayaa ka maqan, waana sababta ay uu kala fadhiyan illa manta.

    My mother is 'pure banadiri' she said murusade gubta iyo dhinacasi bay degi jireen. But reer maataan are the first abgaal in hamar and should be the one's who are respected. Yaysan nagu soo qarin wacaysle oo reer mudug ah thats why murusade then brought ceel bur boys, arintu qabiil bay isu badeshay bay tiri. HG who has no presence bay tiri ayaana markasi naga 'faidaystay' dadka degaanka. She said the 'arabs' lived on the coast my mother who has hawiye view. No Somali lived on the coast. It was only arabs even bendar qasim.

    Somalis lived on the 'outskirts' of the town, they didn't even eat FISH so there was no need for them to reside in coastal areas, I can see the arabs settling the coastal areas to facilitate trade from Somalia interior and being brokers for YEMEN OR OMAN. This history actually correlates with logical evidence bro.

    Kismaayo is possibly settled originally by Bajunis originally similar to Mogadishu and Bosaso being settled by 'arabs'. I will investigate Kismaayo history but take your gedo boys away, your doing what habar gedir did in mogadishu and failed, you will get the same result, at least iyagu way tashdeen wtf u sade doing? Meeshu wa degaan harti, he has a stake there in kismayo, not you when u brought ur juba valley alliance, u did the same thing as HG DID in mogadishu. It's similar to majerten going to beletwayn and doing what u did and claiming degaanka.

    Get out sxb, your being spoilers. Untill Farmajo addresses this he isn't wadani sxb but QABYALI boy who is following abdillahi yusuf idealogy who started the tribal jabhad shit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  16. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    @Reer-Bari I would say please do not attempt to make Bosaso like Mogadishu or Kismayo, you came later in the 70's. When my father was sent by government for literacy program by dawlada siyad barre, he was assigned bosaso. It was bah dirooble who was there, bah gareen, dashishe, dubays. Not you, you never had a presence there historically. Bosaso shaqo kuma lihid, it's like me talking to HG about mogadishu and ignoring murusade, abgaal, reer hamarka. Just sit down, ka bax arimaha bosaso.

    I have bah dubays relatives in Bosaso, if I bring all my people and grow in numbers doesn't mean I have any historical rights here, I will lose nothing in terms of my 'awoowe' history and dhaxal which is the land, I can't believe somalis waxay iska iibiyan wax aan la garan karin.

    I will tell fkn issa mahmoud ha noo qarin abokor isse in garowe, wala yaqana garowe cidda fadhisay. We doing this across all Somalia, dadki degaankaga ahaa ayaa qabiilkooda soo dhowaysanayo iyo qabiilkooda tarikh iyo dhaxal kuma laha meesha, so he has nothing to lose and hence a SPOILER.
     
  17. Reer-Bari

    Reer-Bari COMMANDER OF THE PUNTLAND DEFENCE TEAM

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    We have already proven you and your dad don’t know nothing about bosaso or puntland. Explain why in the late 1800 the Omanis called the coast of bari they called it Ali saleebania. read that in a Omani book. But that doesn’t even matter. What’s you obsession wit calisaleebaan. I don’t ever bring up cismaan Mohamed. Why the gate bro?
     
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  18. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN VIP

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    I am applying the hawiye mentality, I only know Somalia from 99, I don't see the Somalia you talk about when I was there, so I am using the arguments of that time to see if can 'shake' our unity like it shaked hawiye unity to the core. Wala tabanaya meel kasto, unity ma jiro sxb hadi xanuun jira ama qof wax qarsanaya nagu dhex jira, u need to test it unity, cayaar ma aha. It's not a show oo dadka kale weji unity la tusiyo lakin qurun iyo bakhti gudaha ka jira
     
  19. Cognitivedissonance

    Cognitivedissonance A sane man to an insane society must appear insane Stay WOKE VIP

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    Cali saleeban killed the boqor and were wiped out of bari most of them fled to oman to seek refuge before they became extinct thats why today theres many cali saleeban in oman, here in this clip that the suldaan of oman is greeting are mostly cali saleeban

     
  20. Cognitivedissonance

    Cognitivedissonance A sane man to an insane society must appear insane Stay WOKE VIP

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    Boowe you are wasting your time ninkan cuqdad ba dhishay he perceives you as a threat even though you settle in nugaal kkk
     
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