The Greek Musical Case

[The alchemist]

Whenever I saw films portraying Ancient Greece, and they played this Middle-Eastern/North African style of music, I thought it was some false exoticization that I enjoyed because it worked. So I was blown away when seeing this video that unravels the apparent truth that such music was part and parcel of the historical sound repertoire. Processing the facts about Greek being heavily MENA in all other aspects makes sense why the expression of harmonious arrangements would overlap with MENA.

With the video being up to standard, I will correct one thing. The individual claimed that such sound might have come from Greece and influenced the East, emphasizing the portrayal of the instruments dating back to the Iron Age. But he underestimates how long the people in Greece had contact with the people on the other side of the Mediterranean. I don't think he would have an issue with this. His initial point was to show that such music has been intrinsic to the Greek experience and not some recent influence by the other eastern and southern neighbors. I believe Greece definitely got the various flavors from ultimately Southeast Asian origin but deeper into the ancient past.

I also liked how as an Iranian, he pointed out the cringe tendencies of Western Iranians trying to shy away from the name of Iran, which has indigenous roots, while sticking to Persian initially used by Greeks denoting a certain group in ancient Iran. He also denounced the trend of Iranians trying so hard to distance themselves from every Arab influence when that was a historical truth and how it enriched them historically.

The latter reminded me of how we have Somalis showing similar ignorant trends going as far as conjuring up puritanical lies that distort our history into unrealistic brackets and consequently constructing an idea about how our current identities and ways are pollutant from any authenticity of Somali origin. According to how these charlatans put things, Arab historical contact cannot be a natural thing (ignoring natural historical contact); it has to be a process of we are losing ourselves by showing true complexities. It’s a single-mindedly wicked, and childish view of the human experience. That’s why some individuals say every Somali food is not Somali - when influence is the single reason people concoct a mix of things and show diversity in textures and flavors, forming new regional innovations characteristic to that placement. It is not only wrong for its construction of false history and dilemma but also because their model of what is 'true Somali' is also false. Such people are, in the most comedic sense, the most ignorant about the deep history of our people to begin with. I did not plan to make this a lecture about this particular thing but the opportunity presented itself.

The video shows via different measures of modern ideologies and political adherents, people seek to set in "correcting" measures that will distort realities to align with said ideologies and political leanings. It also goes into how conceptual labels and abstract categorizations will become functionally utilized, strengthening such values into a distorted proportion, and masking the apparent overlapping regionalizations with their realistic consequences and the complex influences it has produced.

 

[Aurelian]

Yes. The middle east was for long time influenced by the greek, Turkey, Syria, Egypt were under Greeco-Roman where the music, language, architecture and the upper class costumes where hellenised. Before Arabs came. Ummayad Admin and buildings had some greek influence.

If old Greece and roman were still existing, they would have been more middle eastern than Western. Because these society where shame based one, while western society are more guilt based. There are funny stories where when upper british men went to greece to join the fight against the turks, some of them got shocked how greeks aren't the white pale tall people they imagined, but more Mediterranean look, olive skin, black hair, short statues. So, some say that Greek and roman societies are more middle eastern than western.

 

[Aurelian]

I agree with you that, nationalistic tendencies are very cringe when it comes to culture and history, like our somali nationalists don't understand that people used to influence each other, or took something from another society and then add something to it or adjust it, which change it from its previous form to a new thing that can be claimed to be as another separate thing.

 

[WaterBottle]

Very informative

Whenever I saw films portraying Ancient Greece, and they played this Middle-Eastern/North African style of music, I thought it was some false exoticization that I enjoyed because it worked. So I was blown away when seeing this video that unravels the apparent truth that such music was part and parcel of the historical sound repertoire. Processing the facts about Greek being heavily MENA in all other aspects makes sense why the expression of harmonious arrangements would overlap with MENA.

With the video being up to standard, I will correct one thing. The individual claimed that such sound might have come from Greece and influenced the East, emphasizing the portrayal of the instruments dating back to the Iron Age. But he underestimates how long the people in Greece had contact with the people on the other side of the Mediterranean. I don't think he would have an issue with this. His initial point was to show that such music has been intrinsic to the Greek experience and not some recent influence by the other eastern and southern neighbors. I believe Greece definitely got the various flavors from ultimately Southeast Asian origin but deeper into the ancient past.

I also liked how as an Iranian, he pointed out the cringe tendencies of Western Iranians trying to shy away from the name of Iran, which has indigenous roots, while sticking to Persian initially used by Greeks denoting a certain group in ancient Iran. He also denounced the trend of Iranians trying so hard to distance themselves from every Arab influence when that was a historical truth and how it enriched them historically.

The latter reminded me of how we have Somalis showing similar ignorant trends going as far as conjuring up puritanical lies that distort our history into unrealistic brackets and consequently constructing an idea about how our current identities and ways are pollutant from any authenticity of Somali origin. According to how these charlatans put things, Arab historical contact cannot be a natural thing (ignoring natural historical contact); it has to be a process of we are losing ourselves by showing true complexities. It’s a single-mindedly wicked, and childish view of the human experience. That’s why some individuals say every Somali food is not Somali - when influence is the single reason people concoct a mix of things and show diversity in textures and flavors, forming new regional innovations characteristic to that placement. It is not only wrong for its construction of false history and dilemma but also because their model of what is 'true Somali' is also false. Such people are, in the most comedic sense, the most ignorant about the deep history of our people to begin with. I did not plan to make this a lecture about this particular thing but the opportunity presented itself.

The video shows via different measures of modern ideologies and political adherents, people seek to set in "correcting" measures that will distort realities to align with said ideologies and political leanings. It also goes into how conceptual labels and abstract categorizations will become functionally utilized, strengthening such values into a distorted proportion, and masking the apparent overlapping regionalizations with their realistic consequences and thAe complex influences it has produced.

Interesting take

 

[vbdvllahj]

Yes. The middle east was for long time influenced by the greek, Turkey, Syria, Egypt were under Greeco-Roman where the music, language, architecture and the upper class costumes where hellenised. Before Arabs came. Ummayad Admin and buildings had some greek influence.

If old Greece and roman were still existing, they would have been more middle eastern than Western. Because these society where shame based one, while western society are more guilt based. There are funny stories where when upper british men went to greece to join the fight against the turks, some of them got shocked how greeks aren't the white pale tall people they imagined, but more Mediterranean look, olive skin, black hair, short statues. So, some say that Greek and roman societies are more middle eastern than western.

this guy is Greek! shocking

 

[WaterBottle]

View attachment 284559
this guy is Greek! shocking

My guy this is a Afghan I lie suboor Ahmed or something

 

[The alchemist]

Yes. The middle east was for long time influenced by the greek, Turkey, Syria, Egypt were under Greeco-Roman where the music, language, architecture and the upper class costumes where hellenised. Before Arabs came. Ummayad Admin and buildings had some greek influence.

If old Greece and roman were still existing, they would have been more middle eastern than Western. Because these society where shame based one, while western society are more guilt based. There are funny stories where when upper british men went to greece to join the fight against the turks, some of them got shocked how greeks aren't the white pale tall people they imagined, but more Mediterranean look, olive skin, black hair, short statues. So, some say that Greek and roman societies are more middle eastern than western.

The musical style was way older than when they colonized those areas. There is an anachronism in that claim that such music was introduced through Hellenic influence. You already had such music in those areas they conquered, so Greeks got influenced by them as Greeks had contact with southwest Asian people since the times of Minoans, as we see genetically.