The Earliest Surviving Manuscript Known Written By A Somali From 1692

[killerxsmoke]

Apologies. I only skimmed your previous post. Kinda busy. But anyway, I don't know. The stuff about the day of the week seems a leap to me. It just seems to me like it says "Its year is Friday, after one thousand one hundred and one-third of the blessed Hijrah". I see your point about "Thlth" though I have not quite seen anyone write days like "One thousand, one hundred and one-third" so it could very well just mean 1103 but it's possible it means 1133 or so which would be 1720. I'll message the author of the article and ask, inshallah.

Can u tell me what the manuscript says?

 

[Shimbiris]

Can u tell me what the manuscript says?

The writ is honestly tedious to read but I'll try to do a full translation sometime and share it.

 

[Garaad diinle]

It was obvs constructed, but if u mean that it was during modern era, than that was an dumb theory any knowledgeable would dismiss right away

So
1. Irir
2&3 Yahabuur & Gariire
4. Karuur
5. Gardheere
6&7. Maaqare & Mayle
8&9. Xamar & Xariir

In another version I read it goes like this
1. Gardheere
2&3. Maqar & Mayle
4&5. Gurre & Gariire
6&7. Irir & Yahabur
8&9. Xamar & Xariir

With those combined sharing mother.

Yeah i can see it now it's probably is yahabuur wallahi i thought it was habar waaq at the beginning. The second name after yahbuur appears to be k or g followed with an r. Vowel are not writng in letter form but in sings and i am seeing a r hoos dhabe so it could be guure or garre.

 

[Saciid]

Apologies. I only skimmed your previous post. Kinda busy. But anyway, I don't know. The stuff about the day of the week seems a leap to me. It just seems to me like it says "Its year is Friday, after one thousand one hundred and one-third of the blessed Hijrah". I see your point about "Thlth" though I have not quite seen anyone write days like "One thousand, one hundred and one-third" so it could very well just mean 1103 but it's possible it means 1133 or so which would be 1720. I'll message the author of the article and ask, inshallah.

"Its year is Friday" could just be a reference to Somali calander, which has a 7 year cycle wich each year named after a day

 

[Saciid]

Yeah i can see it now it's probably is yahabuur wallahi i thought it was habar waaq at the beginning. The second name after yahbuur appears to be k or g followed with an r. Vowel are not writng in letter form but in sings and i am seeing a r hoos dhabe so it could be guure or garre.

Gariire claim Maaqare was either the same person or one the son of the other. Either way the claim the same as Maqarre so Gurre makes more sense

 

[Hamzza]

Can u tell me what the manuscript says?

The manuscript is talking about علامات الساعة الكبرى signs of end times

 

[Hamzza]

Can u tell me what the manuscript says?

This is how the author of the manuscript listed the greater signs of end times:

1. The rise of the sea.
2. Arrival of a beautiful woman called "Daiyah" which will cause fitnah to the people of earth from east to west.
3. Appearance of the Daabah(Beast of Earth).
4. The Dukhan: a smoke that will form a cloud that covers the earth to the point a person will struggle to see his hands.
5. Messiah al Dajjal will appear.
6. Descent of prophet Issa
7. Gog and Magog will devastate the earth.
8. The sun rises from the west.
9. Blowing of the trumpet.

 

[Saciid]

This manuscript was acquired by colonial powers in southern somalia and there is another manuscript acquired by the colonial powers in northern somali. The gadabursi chronicles which was writing around 1826 ad also have a samaale geneology that goes further into weird names such as loxan.

How do u know that the chronicle was written in 1826ad

 

[Saciid]

Also Gurre is also confusing. Many Somalis here say that they are an Oromo-Somali mix group, but all the pre-nationalism reports ab them mentions them as a Somali group with Oromo influences, even as early as 1891! Others say Dir too. What's interesting is that an Italian offical visiting Gariire said they were Digil (not in lineage) and closely related to Gariire and even speak the same af as them.

@anonimo u know more?

 

[Burqad]

Also Gurre is also confusing. Many Somalis here say that they are an Oromo-Somali mix group, but all the pre-nationalism reports ab them mentions them as a Somali group with Oromo influences, even as early as 1891! Others say Dir too. What's interesting is that an Italian offical visiting Gariire said they were Digil (not in lineage) and closely related to Gariire and even speak the same af as them.

@anonimo u know more?

garre were all originally Somali, but some of them were conquered by Oromo and oromized, some of them fled south from the oromo and formed one of the Swahili tribes, but most are still Somali and speak their own dialect of Somali.

 

[Saciid]

garre were all originally Somali, but some of them were conquered by Oromo and oromized, some of them fled south from the oromo and formed one of the Swahili tribes, but most are still Somali and speak their own dialect of Somali.

Garre =/ Gurre.

 

[Burqad]

Garre =/ Gurre.

ah sorry

 

[Garaad diinle]

How do u know that the chronicle was written in 1826ad

I mean it was around this time. I remember that the manuscript was commissioned by a sultan of the gadabursi in 1826 or around this time. He was tasked to write the history of the whole gadabursi and the book if i remember correctly end the account also around 1826. I might need to re-read the book it's been a long time.

 

[anonimo]

Also Gurre is also confusing. Many Somalis here say that they are an Oromo-Somali mix group, but all the pre-nationalism reports ab them mentions them as a Somali group with Oromo influences, even as early as 1891! Others say Dir too. What's interesting is that an Italian offical visiting Gariire said they were Digil (not in lineage) and closely related to Gariire and even speak the same af as them.

@anonimo u know more?

They are Somali Dirs who came under Oromo influence from what I know but how that happened I am non the wiser because their sub subs possess Somali names whilst the upper branches are from the Oromo Language. They have been in a state of war with the Arsis of Bale for a while now and had not assimilated into their confederacy maintaining their Somali identity when they migrated South. What is more confusing is that Gurre and Akisho are interchangeable depending on whom you ask.

I think your question is best answered by asking a learned member of the clan about their migration History from Northern K5 to areas adjacent to Bale, when they historically came under Oromo influence in Northern K5 as demonstrated by certain clan names etc.?

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

That is arabic script not somali script

 

[killerxsmoke]

That is arabic script not somali script

U must be the smartest in this forum

 

[Saciid]

They are Somali Dirs who came under Oromo influence from what I know but how that happened I am non the wiser because their sub subs possess Somali names whilst the upper branches are from the Oromo Language. They have been in a state of war with the Arsis of Bale for a while now and had not assimilated into their confederacy maintaining their Somali identity when they migrated South. What is more confusing is that Gurre and Akisho are interchangeable depending on whom you ask.

I think your question is best answered by asking a learned member of the clan about their migration History from Northern K5 to areas adjacent to Bale, when they historically came under Oromo influence in Northern K5 as demonstrated by certain clan names etc.?

Migrated south? Isn't it the Arsi who pushed into their lands during the Oromo migration? Also, does the Gurre speak an Af-Digil dialect similar to Reer Maqarre (Dabarre, Iroole & Gariire)? I suspect their "Dir origins" due to their cultural & possible linguistic affinity with Digil

 

[anonimo]

Migrated south? Isn't it the Arsi who pushed into their lands during the Oromo migration? Also, does the Gurre speak an Af-Digil dialect similar to Reer Maqarre (Dabarre, Iroole & Gariire)? I suspect their "Dir origins" due to their cultural & possible linguistic affinity with Digil

The Gurre speak Somali, they do not have a language unique to them, some who historically intermarried with the Arsi before the escalation of hostilities are bilingual. Akisho and Gurre are the same clan, the oral History of Gurre is connected to the Northern Akisho dispersal from what I know.

Gariire are not Maqarre Samaale like the Dabarre and Iroole, the relationship between these two groups is news to me.

 

[Saciid]

The Gurre speak Somali, they do not have a language unique to them, some who historically intermarried with the Arsi before the escalation of hostilities are bilingual. Akisho and Gurre are the same clan, the oral History of Gurre is connected to the Northern Akisho dispersal from what I know.

They way they were spoken as Digil and as close to Gariire, as Gariires confirmed, is intresting tho. He also said they were the Digils that stayed behind in Bale together with Gariire when Arsi "reconquered" (He believed in the Galla myth)

Gariire are not Maqarre Samaale like the Dabarre and Iroole, the relationship between these two groups is news to me.

They are according to an Italian officer who visited Gariire lands in 1937 and interviewed their Ugaas himself. They also speak a dialect similar to Af Dabarre and Beesha Maatay (Dabarre & Iroole) claim them as kin who stayed behind in the original homeland. Overall, them being Digil-related Maqarre Samaale seems much stronger than Dir origin.

Tbh, Dir claim alot of clans like Jiido and Wardey as Dir which is very dubious. Especially considering that the populations themselves claim different lineages, which is more in line with their dhaqan & Af

 

[anonimo]

They way they were spoken as Digil and as close to Gariire, as Gariires confirmed, is intresting tho. He also said they were the Digils that stayed behind in Bale together with Gariire when Arsi "reconquered" (He believed in the Galla myth)

Gurre History in the Bale area is relatively known, they do not speak a separate Language at all. Look up their subclans and you will see what I mean regarding an Akisho connection.

They are according to an Italian officer who visited Gariire lands in 1937 and interviewed their Ugaas himself. They also speak a dialect similar to Af Dabarre and Beesha Maatay (Dabarre & Iroole) claim them as kin who stayed behind in the original homeland. Overall, them being Digil-related Maqarre Samaale seems much stronger than Dir origin.

Tbh, Dir claim alot of clans like Jiido and Wardey as Dir which is very dubious. Especially considering that the populations themselves claim different lineages, which is more in line with their dhaqan & Af

Interesting. Drop the source please.

Wardey Dir are not Dir as their History is known especially in the case of the Orma. The issue is these clans claiming multiple lineages as you have highlighted, just go on facebook and you will observe a number of Jiidos claiming to be 'Jiido Cali' for instance. Clans such as these ought to sort themselves out and identify with what they really are.