The Cushitic connection to the ancient Nile valley

[Crow]

I see a lot of arguments about this subject so I am making this thread to gather well-sourced information in one place to finally set the record straight.

One of the biggest points of confusion, for me at least, is Kingdom of Cush and its relationship to actual Cushites. The eventual arrival of Nilotes and birth of Nubians makes it difficult to understand.

So let's start at the beginning before those guys came and mucked everything up. Let's start with the proto-Sidamo 'Kerma culture'.

Kerma culture

The Kerma culture or Kerma kingdom was an early civilization centered in Kerma, Sudan. It flourished from around 2500 BCE to 1500 BCE in ancient Nubia, located in Upper Egypt and northern Sudan. The polity seems to have been one of a number of Nile Valley states during the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. In the Kingdom of Kerma's latest phase, lasting from about 1700–1500 BCE, it absorbed the Sudanese kingdom of Sai and became a sizable, populous empire rivaling Egypt. Around 1500 BCE, it was absorbed into the New Kingdom of Egypt, but rebellions continued for centuries. By the eleventh century BCE, the more-Egyptianized Kingdom of Kush emerged, possibly from Kerma, and regained the region's independence from Egypt.

Kerma was evidently a sizable political entity - Egyptian records speak of its rich and populous agricultural regions. Unlike Egypt, Kerma seems to have been highly centralized. It controlled the 1st to 4th Cataracts, which meant its domain was as extensive as ancient Egypt.

Numerous village communities scattered alongside fields of crops made up the bulk of the realm, but there also seems to have been districts wherein pastoralism (goat, sheep and cattle) and gold processing were important industries. Certain Kerma towns served to centralize agricultural products and direct trade.

By 2300 BC, the Early C-Group culture (Berbers) was appearing in Lower Nubia, most likely arriving from Dongola Reach (Kerma). Thus, by the second millennium BC, Kerma was the center of a large kingdom, probably the first in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Both during the Middle and New Kingdoms, the resources Kerma possessed – gold, cattle, milk products, ebony, incense, ivory, etc. – were much coveted by Egypt. Its army were built around archers.

During its zenith, Kerma formed a partnership with the Hyksos (Semites) and tried to crush Egypt. Discoveries in 2003 at the Governor of El Kab's Tomb (near Thebes) show that Kerma invaded deep into Egypt between 1575 and 1550 BCE. It is believed that this was one of Egypt's most humiliating defeats, which later pharaohs had erased from the official historic records. Many royal statues and monuments were looted from Egypt and removed to Kerma, apparently as a gesture of triumph by Kerma's ruler.

Under Tuthmosis I, Egypt made several campaigns south, destroying Kerma. This eventually resulted in the Egyptian annexation of Nubia (Kerma/ Kush) c.1504 BC, and the establishment a southern frontier at Kurgus, south of the Fourth Cataract. After the conquest, Kerma culture was increasingly 'Egyptianized' yet rebellions continued for 220 years (till c.1300 BC). During the New Kingdom, Kerma/Kush nevertheless became a key province of the Egyptian Empire - economically, politically and spiritually.

The extent of cultural/political continuity between the Kingdom of Kerma and the chronologically succeeding Kingdom of Kush is difficult to determine. The latter polity began to emerge around 1000 BCE, around 500 years after the end of the Kingdom of Kerma. Initially, the Kushite kings continued to use Kerma for royal burials and special ceremonies, suggesting some connection. Moreover, the layout of royal funerary compounds in both Kerma and Napata (the Kush capital) are similarly designed. Caches of statues of Kush's pharaohs have also been discovered at Kerma, suggesting that the Napatan rulers recognized a historic link between their capital and Kerma.

According to Peter Behrens (1981) and Marianne Bechaus-Gerst (2000), linguistic evidence indicates that the Kerma peoples spoke Afroasiatic languages of the Cushitic branch. The Nilo-Saharan Nobiin language today contains a number of key pastoralism related loanwords that are of proto-Highland East Cushitic origin (proto-Sidamo), including the terms for sheep/goatskin, hen/cock, livestock enclosure, butter and milk. This in turn suggests that the Kerma population — which, along with the C-Group Culture (Berbers), inhabited the Nile Valley immediately before the arrival of the first Nubian speakers — spoke Afroasiatic languages.

Today, the Sidamo are part of the Ethiopia's Southern Peoples. They live in its easternmost part as farmers. They are around 4 million people at 8% Muslim, 15% pagan, and 77% Christian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidama_people

 

[CaliTedesse]

Sounds like rubbish to me especially since it mentions berbers kulaha C group ,what source sxb?

 

[Apollo]

Sidamas likely have much more Omotic blood than Somalis. This is the case with most Southwest Ethiopians, even Central Ethiopians. I don't think they are close to the original Cushites who completely lacked any Omotic affinity whatsoever. Cushites originated in Northeast Sudan, not Ethiopia.

As for words linking the Nubian language and the Sidama, it could simply be due to linguistic conservatism and nothing about recent ethnic connections between the two.

When you read linguistic papers you will see that some words are preserved in a certain subgroup while lost or significantly altered in another subgroup within the same linguistic macro-grouping.

''For example, Icelandic is, in some aspects, more similar to Old Norse than other languages that evolved from Old Norse, including Danish, Norwegian, or Swedish, while Sardinian is regarded by many linguists to be the most conservative Romance language.''

''In the 6th century AD, Classical Arabic was a conservative Semitic language compared with Classical Syriac, which was spoken at the same time; Classical Arabic strongly resembles reconstructed Proto-Semitic, while Syriac has changed much more.''

Which language stays conservative and which goes the innovative route is simply a matter of chance.

Let's start with the proto-Sidamo 'Kerma culture'

The statement does not support that the Cushites inhabiting the Nubia territory were directly linked to the Sidama. Only thing it says is that Sidama conserved some ancient Cushitic words still found in the Nilo-Saharan Nubian language as substrates.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Sidamas likely have much more Omotic blood than Somalis. This is the case with most Southwest Ethiopians, even Central Ethiopians. I don't think they are close to the original Cushites who completely lacked any Omotic affinity whatsoever. Cushites originated in Northeast Sudan, not Ethiopia.

As for words linking the Nubian language and the Sidama, it could simply be due to linguistic conservatism and nothing about recent ethnic connections between the two.

When you read linguistic papers you will see that some words are preserved in a certain subgroup while lost or significantly altered in another subgroup within the same linguistic macro-grouping.

''For example, Icelandic is, in some aspects, more similar to Old Norse than other languages that evolved from Old Norse, including Danish, Norwegian, or Swedish, while Sardinian is regarded by many linguists to be the most conservative Romance language.''

''In the 6th century AD, Classical Arabic was a conservative Semitic language compared with Classical Syriac, which was spoken at the same time; Classical Arabic strongly resembles reconstructed Proto-Semitic, while Syriac has changed much more.''

Which language stays conservative and which goes the innovative route is simply a matter of chance.



The statement does not support that the Cushites inhabiting the Nubia territory were directly linked to the Sidama. Only thing it says is that Sidama conserved some ancient Cushitic words still found in the Nilo-Saharan Nubian language as substrates.

I've noticed that Sidama and Gedeo are the strangest looking Ethiopian ethnic groups. Is it because they have a large amount of Omotic ancestry? Does that mean they are the oldest?

 

[Apollo]

I've noticed that Sidama and Gedeo are the strangest looking Ethiopian ethnic groups. Is it because they have a large amount of Omotic ancestry? Does that mean they are the oldest?

It's the Omotic.

That plus Sabaean Yemenite in Habeshas (North-Central Ethiopians) causes the phenotypic difference from Somalis.

 

[EDsomali]

I see a lot of arguments about this subject so I am making this thread to gather well-sourced information in one place to finally set the record straight.

One of the biggest points of confusion, for me at least, is Kingdom of Cush and its relationship to actual Cushites. The eventual arrival of Nilotes and birth of Nubians makes it difficult to understand.

So let's start at the beginning before those guys came and mucked everything up. Let's start with the proto-Sidamo 'Kerma culture'.

Kerma culture

Today, the Sidamo are part of the Ethiopia's Southern Peoples. They live in its easternmost part as farmers. They are around 4 million people at 8% Muslim, 15% pagan, and 77% Christian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidama_people

There was DNA analysis done on Nubian Christian graves in the 5th century.

While the full paper has not come out, what has been realised has shown that Nubian's cluster close to other HOA groups.

Until the study is released and we can do our calculations then we will not know for certain who was Kerma Culture or the Kingdom of Kush.

 

[World]

I've noticed that Sidama and Gedeo are the strangest looking Ethiopian ethnic groups. Is it because they have a large amount of Omotic ancestry? Does that mean they are the oldest?

What do you mean by "strange looking"? Do you mean that they're outliers? I don't agree, I think that most highland Ethiopians look alike. You need to remember that whilst they do have Omotic ancestry, Somalis also have ~10 % ancient EA lowland hunter gatherer ancestry, which could explain why we look different too. They also adapted to the Ethiopian highlands, which could explain a drift between our phenotypes.

This is an Agaw woman:

 

[Apollo]

What do you mean by "strange looking"? Do you mean that they're outliers? I don't agree, I think that most highland Ethiopians look alike. You need to remember that whilst they do have Omotic ancestry, Somalis also have ~10 % ancient EA lowland hunter gatherer ancestry, which could explain why we look different too.

This is an Agaw woman:

View attachment 72600

Somalis may have a different hunter-gatherer sub-component adapted to the semi-arid plains of Somalia, while theirs was adapted to the Ethiopian highlands and greenery.

The Ainu looked completely different from the Chinese, even though both were native East Asians.

PS. Agaws are indistinguishable from Amharas. They have mixed so much that there is no difference between them.

 

[World]

Somalis may have a different hunter-gatherer sub-component adapted to the semi-arid plains of Somalia, while theirs was adapted to the Ethiopian highlands and greenery.

Yeah I just mentioned that in my edit.

These are more Sidamo people, tbh they have quite typical highland features IMO.

 

[Apollo]

Yeah I just mentioned that in my edit.

These are more Sidamo people, tbh they have quite typical highland features IMO.

Still this Ethiopic HG look about them.

 

[EDsomali]

Somalis may have a different hunter-gatherer sub-component adapted to the semi-arid plains of Somalia, while theirs was adapted to the Ethiopian highlands and greenery.

The Ainu looked completely different from the Chinese, even though both were native East Asians.

PS. Agaws are indistinguishable from Amharas.

What Hunter-gatherer group did Somali's mix with considering there were multiple living in Somalia and when could this have occurred?

Also, do South Cushites also have this hunter-gatherer admixture?

 

[World]

What Hunter-gatherer group did Somali's mix with considering there were multiple living in Somalia and when could this have occurred?

Also, do South Cushites also have this hunter-gatherer admixture?

South Cushites have ~10 % Khoisan admixture.

 

[Apollo]

What Hunter-gatherer group did Somali's mix with considering there were multiple living in Somalia and when could this have occurred?

Also, do South Cushites also have this hunter-gatherer admixture?

The ones from Somalia are completely extinct.

South Cushites are mixed with another different HG group of the Tanzanian savanna/forests.

 

[EDsomali]

The ones from Somalia are completely extinct.

South Cushites are mixed with another totally different HG group of the Tanzanian plains.

When and where did this occur though? Considering there were multiple different HG groups living in Somalia?

Do Rendile also have the admixture or just Somalis?

 

[Apollo]

When and where did this occur though? Considering there were multiple different HG groups living in Somalia?

Do Rendile also have the admixture or just Somalis?

Basically when the Cushites entered the Horn. Agricultural groups always win out from hunter-gatherers.

About the Rendille. They don't represent that group. Rendilles are admixed with Omotics, they carry E-M329 around 13%, which is a bona fide Omo Valley lineage.

 

[911]

Interesting eye colors

 

[World]

View attachment 72601
View attachment 72602
Interesting eye colors

I've noticed that a lot of Habeshas have green eyes, I even know a few who have hazel eyes.

Like this kid with light eyes:

 

[World]

@911

Another one

Such a beautiful girl mashallah.

 

[World]

@Apollo how comes Somalis don't tend to have light eyes like Habesha people do? Is it because they have Sabaean Yemenite ancestry?

 

[Apollo]

@Apollo how comes Somalis don't tend to have light eyes like Habesha people do? Is it because they have Sabaean Yemenite ancestry?

No idea, but I don't think it is that common.

Light eyes are found in all races as a low frequency trait. It's not always a racial thing. Sometimes they could be mutants.