Sudanse Girl talks about her Racist Experience in the Middle East

[Prince of Lasanod]

I don't understand how Somalis could have an identity crisis though. We're clearly black. Atleast North Sudanese people speak Arabic, have Arab culture, and they have Arab ancestry and many of them look pure Arab...but Somalis don't speak Arabic, we look African, and the only reason why we have an Arabic culture is because of the arabization of the Somali culture after the civil war. Our real culture was pre-civil war Somalia.

We are not Black, we are Somali.

 

[MadNomad]

We are not Black, we are Somali.

Horta, what does that even mean

 

[DuctTape]

I don't understand how Somalis could have an identity crisis though. We're clearly black. Atleast North Sudanese people speak Arabic, have Arab culture, and they have Arab ancestry and many of them look pure Arab...but Somalis don't speak Arabic, we look African, and the only reason why we have an Arabic culture is because of the arabization of the Somali culture after the civil war. Our real culture was pre-civil war Somalia.

You fail to understand that identity is not a fixed label or a concrete concept. It's a social construct.
Most people, when asked what a black person looks like, will list pretty much what an African American looks like.

To many, we don't look "African". To some, we aren't "black". 'African' is one label that pretty much no-one can deny without looking stupid, but "Black" is one that when accepted by Somalis, sometimes sees backlash from other "Blacks".
Plenty of people are tired of being told that they aren't black by those who are supposed to be their fellow blacks, and so identify as only Somali. That's no less correct or incorrect than identifying as Black. Some Somalis who speak Arabic as a first language or live in the ME might identify as Arab, and that's fine, too. Somalis are a diverse bunch in appearance and self-identity.

Also, we don't have an "Arabic" culture, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but Somali culture has been influenced by Arab (Specifically Yemeni/Omani) culture and vice versa for millennia. We live literally right next to them, it's a given.

 

[DuctTape]

I think it's clear that we aren't Arab to be honest. We don't speak the language, and have a rather distinct culture from Arabs but yet share some parts with them. Sudanese people are mixed between Nubians and Arabs whilst speaking the Arab language and having the culture. I would consider myself an Arab if I was them. Sudanese people are more Arab than Lebanese who are just pretty much Arabized White.

My point wasn't that we can't decide if we are Arab or not, but just the fact that many Somalis seem to clash on how to self-identify, just like the Lebanese. With us it's more that "Are Somalis black?" bullshit rather than the Arab thing, which I agree with you on.

 

[MadNomad]

You fail to understand that identity is not a fixed label or a concrete concept. It's a social construct.
Most people, when asked what a black person looks like, will list pretty much what an African American looks like.

To many, we don't look "African". To some, we aren't "black". 'African' is one label that pretty much no-one can deny without looking stupid, but "Black" is one that when accepted by Somalis, sometimes sees backlash from other "Blacks".
Plenty of people are tired of being told that they aren't black by those who are supposed to be their fellow blacks, and so identify as only Somali. That's no less correct or incorrect than identifying as Black. Some Somalis who speak Arabic as a first language or live in the ME might identify as Arab, and that's fine, too. Somalis are a diverse bunch in appearance and self-identity.

Also, we don't have an "Arabic" culture, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but Somali culture has been influenced by Arab (Specifically Yemeni/Omani) culture and vice versa for millennia. We live literally right next to them, it's a given.

If this woman is classified as black

Then you're definitely black sxb :siilaanyolaugh:

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

My point wasn't that we can't decide if we are Arab or not, but just the fact that many Somalis seem to clash on how to self-identify, just like the Lebanese. With us it's more that "Are Somalis black?" bullshit rather than the Arab thing, which I agree with you on.

Somali's have been isolated from the rest of Africa until very recently. We recently conquered the NFD and Oromos used to live there. Ogaden is blocked off by mountains. And Djibouti neighbors Eritrea. Our contact with Black people is very limited, and we have more in common with North/NE Africans and not SSA's culturally. In terms of our looks, then we are distinct in that regard as well.

 

[DuctTape]

If this woman is classified as black

Then you're defiantly black sxb :siilaanyolaugh:

You missed my point
How does the way other people perceive me define what I see myself as?
She's considered black because of a racist, antiquated One-drop rule, a relic of America's history of slavery.
Plus, these labels are made up. The Irish 100 years ago were considered . They were almost (if not just) as bad as blacks in the British's eyes. If, in 100 years people suddenly decide Somalis are white, then would you accept that, since what other people think seems to matter to you?

 

[DuctTape]

Somali's have been isolated from the rest of Africa until very recently. We recently conquered the NFD and Oromos used to live there. Ogaden is blocked off by mountains. And Djibouti neighbors Eritrea. Our contact with Black people is very limited, and we have more in common with North/NE Africans and not SSA's culturally. In terms of our looks, then we are distinct in that regard as well.

I agree with what you're saying.
Here's a question though: If you think it's inaccurate to lump us and other NE Africans into the Black label because of the sheer differences between us and them, then what about all the groups in Africa that are very distant from each other, but still under the black label, like the Xhosa and Fulani, two very different groups in culture?

 

[Bahal]

How is this relevant to a Somali forum?

 

[Adheer Warsame]

 

[DuctTape]

How is this relevant to a Somali forum?

This is a Black forum. Any posts about our black brethren are relevant

 

[Claire]

We are not Black, we are Somali.

Sorry boo, but you are black whether you like it or not. Race is how people perceive you. Not how you perceive yourself. If you look black, then you are black. Period.

 

[DuctTape]

Sorry boo, but you are black whether you like it or not. Race is how people perceive you. Not how you perceive yourself. If you look black, then you are black. Period.

So some Somalis are black and some Somalis aren't?
Since some Somalis look less "black" than others.
Your point is pretty much saying that there is a fixed look for black people. Then, is Mariah Carey black? But wait, she doesn't look black!
But she's half black! But she doesn't look black.
Your own points are clashing with Western ideas of race, and they pretty much prove how this is all nonsense.

 

[Claire]

You fail to understand that identity is not a fixed label or a concrete concept. It's a social construct.
Most people, when asked what a black person looks like, will list pretty much what an African American looks like.

To many, we don't look "African". To some, we aren't "black". 'African' is one label that pretty much no-one can deny without looking stupid, but "Black" is one that when accepted by Somalis, sometimes sees backlash from other "Blacks".
Plenty of people are tired of being told that they aren't black by those who are supposed to be their fellow blacks, and so identify as only Somali. That's no less correct or incorrect than identifying as Black. Some Somalis who speak Arabic as a first language or live in the ME might identify as Arab, and that's fine, too. Somalis are a diverse bunch in appearance and self-identity.

Also, we don't have an "Arabic" culture, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but Somali culture has been influenced by Arab (Specifically Yemeni/Omani) culture and vice versa for millennia. We live literally right next to them, it's a given.

Race is what people percieve you to be. Race is perception - nothing more, nothing less. If you look Chinese, then you are Chinese. If you look Black, then you are black. Period. How you view yourself doesn't matter, because walking down the street, society still sees you as a Black man.

 

[MadNomad]

You missed my point
How does the way other people perceive me define what I see myself as?
She's considered black because of a racist, antiquated One-drop rule, a relic of America's history of slavery.
Plus, these labels are made up. The Irish 100 years ago were considered . They were almost (if not just) as bad as blacks in the British's eyes. If, in 100 years people suddenly decide Somalis are white, then would you accept that, since what other people think seems to matter to you?

Labels have meanings. If white doesn't change its meaning in the future then no, i won't accept it. In today's world Somalis are black, that might change in the future provided that the label changes meaning. I'm not talking about genetics.

 

[ሕጊ።።]

We Wuz

Episode 8,217

 

[DuctTape]

Race is what people percieve you to be. Race is perception - nothing more, nothing less. If you look Chinese, then you are Chinese. If you look Black, then you are black. Period. How you view yourself doesn't matter, because walking down the street, society still sees you as a Black man.

Labels have meanings. If white doesn't change its meaning in the future then no, i won't accept it. In today's world Somalis are black, that might change in the future provided that the label changes meaning. I'm not talking about genetics.

Race isn't what people perceive you to be - how you look affects what race people perceive you as, which affects their treatment of you.
Are you seriously telling me that a Japanese man walking down the street is Chinese (which isn't even a race, but for the sake of argument let's run with it) just because people mistake him for a Chinese man? But that's straight up incorrect. What happened to the Japanese man's identity? Is it overwritten by how people perceive him? I'm sorry but this is idiotic. How other people see me shouldn't be more important than how I see myself.

The world doesn't revolve around the West and its ideas of race, and I shouldn't subscribe to that way of thinking. Just like I am a muslim in a largely non-muslim country, my way of viewing myself, which is distinctly non-Western, shouldn't have to be overwritten by the Western mentality.
This Somali looks Arab, so he is Arab. This white guy looks Asian, so he is Asian. I agree that labels carry meaning, but I can maintain my own view of myself without having to subscribe to an incredibly inconsistent way of thinking. Some people say that Somalis aren't black because they look different. Some people say they look Arab, so they're Arab. It's inconsistent, so why should I be consistent with what the majority thinks?

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Race is what people percieve you to be. Race is perception - nothing more, nothing less. If you look Chinese, then you are Chinese. If you look Black, then you are black. Period. How you view yourself doesn't matter, because walking down the street, society still sees you as a Black man.

So these people are Black is what you're saying?

And she's White?

 

[Claire]

So these people are Black is what you're saying?

And she's White?

The A

So these people are Black is what you're saying?

And she's White?

That Asian girl looks Asian because she has Asian features. The two men, they do not look Black. They look Pacific Islander or Aboriginal or whatever they are.

 

[MadNomad]

The world doesn't revolve around the West and its ideas of race, and I shouldn't subscribe to that way of thinking. Just like I am a muslim in a largely non-muslim country, my way of viewing myself, which is distinctly non-Western, shouldn't have to be overwritten by the Western mentality.
This Somali looks Arab, so he is Arab. This white guy looks Asian, so he is Asian. I agree that labels carry meaning, but I can maintain my own view of myself without having to subscribe to an incredibly inconsistent way of thinking. Some people say that Somalis aren't black because they look different. Some people say they look Arab, so they're Arab. It's inconsistent, so why should I be consistent with what the majority thinks?

It's not western exclusive. Go to any Arab country and see if they will recognize you as one of their own. Somalis are black wherever they go, china, india, Japan. You name it. It's a label, and most Somalis conform to that label. So a minority look more Arab (but not fully Arab, more like a mix) , so what? People categorize ethnic groups according to the norm, not the minority.

It's just a label sxb, i know for a fact that when walking in the street people put me in the "black" box. I don't really care though tbh, these labels don't mean much to me personally. But they exist.