Study: Federalism is working and is supported by the majority of the people.

[Jubba_Man]

Interesting study done by the Heritage Institute for Policy Studies (or HIPS). Excerpts:

"A significant majority of Somalis favor a federal system of governance, despite serious misgivings. This is according to a research project concluded by HIPS that spun across 5 major cities in Somalia.The majority of those surveyed consider federalism as the best way to achieve a power-sharing mechanism among Somali clans whereas a vertical system of governance with a highly centralized unitary state is seen as inherently undemocratic and oppressive. People demand horizontal power structures where they can retain a fair degree of influence at the local level".

"
Regional autonomy has also emerged as a major demand for Somalis
across the country. Most participants desired a federal system,
because it would give their local government greater autonomy. With
regional autonomy comes local control of power and resources (at
least in theory). In practice, leaders of existing and emerging states
tightly control all facets of governance, including the appointment of
district commissioners and directors of departments".


"Another major finding is the connection participants made between
federalism and conflict resolution. Their claim is that, with devolved
power and resources, there will be much less conflict and more
cooperation or space between communities. Again, this is easier said
than done, but the fact that more than a third of respondents make
the association is crucial".


The full PDF study can be found at this site.

Federalism is a booming success in Somalia and the people love it. It has brought stability, order, accountable governance, and prosperity to most people's lives. It's a system that works.

Now what we need is for the official completion of Khatuumo, South West State, and Awdal-land. The federalism train is going while the dogs will continue to bark.

 

[Geeljire]

Not valid at all same survey and article you posted pointed this out

Despite significant support for a federal form of governance, the Somali people’s understanding on the
intricate and the nuanced nature of federalism remains extremely low. This highlights the need for a robust civic
education campaign.

Fourth, a robust civic education campaign is needed. Federalism is deeply misunderstood. Even those who vigorously support it have their own interpretations, including the widely held view that it means total autonomy for their clans.

http://waagacusub.net/articles/770/Federal-Somalia-Not-If-but-How

The people who they surveyed dont even know what federalism is or how it works, its soo laughable walahi.lollol Completly misunderstood it. It was a report made intended to highlight the ignorance of the Somali population.


Yet despite that vast majority of them dont trust it and see it as deeply flawed.

• A substantial majority still views the current federation process as deeply flawed, because it is a largely elitedriven and externally facilitated scheme that promotes clan identity at the expense of citizenship.

Look at this sheegato selectively picking out qoutes from the article to fit his narrative

 

[Jubba_Man]

Not valid at all same survey and article you posted pointed this out

These contentions were all raised in the study. Like all objective studies and research, they have to mention the shortfalls of their study and or the limitations of their methodology. If you actually read the PDF and were interested in doing research and expanding your mind, you'd know this by now.

The people who they surveyed dont even know what federalism is or how it works, its soo laughable walahi.lollol Completly misunderstood it. It was a report made intended to highlight the ignorance of the Somali population.

That was the study reporting on one of the issues they found with the people. Despite that, when they explained precisely what the agenda of federalism is and how it has helped them to achieve stability and prosperity in the face of a failed state, they found the vast majority of the people supported it. That is not indisputable at all.

All they said was more education needs to be done to teach people just exactly the complex nuances of the federalist system and how it can be used to benefit all of the people in the Somali peninsula. Again, if you actually read the study and were interested in injecting an informed view into this debate rather than vomiting your bias and ignorance all over it, you'd know all of this.

Yet despite that vast majority of them see federalism as shit and deeply flawed.

Absolutely wrong. The study's conclusions are completely solid on this view. After all participants were sufficiently learned about the complex machinery that is federalism in Somalia, the majority support it and are completely happy with it and the status quo.

Look at this sheegato selectively picking out qoutes from the article to fit his narrative

Referencing the conclusions of a robust study is "picking out quotes" now?

 

[Geeljire]

These contentions were all raised in the study. Like all objective studies and research, they have to mention the shortfalls of their study and or the limitations of their methodology. If you actually read the PDF and were interested in doing research and expanding your mind, you'd know this by now.

Why leave out the shortfalls try and mislead people?. This was an objective study displaying simply the different interpretations and views on it. Not a study on wether Federalism works or not. Or if its fit for the Somali people

That was the study reporting on one of the issues they found with the people. Despite that, when they explained precisely what the agenda of federalism is and how it has helped them to achieve stability and prosperity in the face of a failed state, they found the vast majority of the people supported it. That is not indisputable at all.

All they said was more education needs to be done to teach people just exactly the complex nuances of the federalist system and how it can be used to benefit all of the people in the Somali peninsula. Again, if you actually read the study and were interested in injecting an informed view into this debate rather than vomiting your bias and ignorance all over it, you'd know all of this.

They reported peoples interpretation and views on Federalism. Not the agenda of of it or how it has suceeded in anything you illiterate sheegato.

Fourth, a robust civic education campaign is needed. Federalism is deeply misunderstood. Even those who vigorously support it have their own interpretations,including the widely held view that it means total autonomy for their clans.

They made it really clear that federalism is deeply misunderstood especially by those who vigorously support it. This is why this survey was mostly on highlighting the ignorance of the Somali population. This is a purely a study on the different interpretations and misconceptions on Federalism.

Hence why they encourage a more proper educational program that gives them understanding.

Absolutely wrong. The study's conclusions are completely solid on this view. After all participants were sufficiently learned about the complex machinery that is federalism in Somalia, the majority support it and are completely happy with it and the status quo.



Referencing the conclusions of a robust study is "picking out quotes" now?

Why leave out a key point in the study , that a majority of them actually see it as deeply flawed elititst driven and facilitates a scheme at the expense of the citizens?

• A substantial majority still views the current federation process as deeply flawed, because it is a largely elitedriven and externally facilitated scheme that promotes clan identity at the expense of citizenship.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Why leave out the shortfalls try and mislead people?. This was an objective study displaying simply the different interpretations and views on it. Not a study on wether Federalism works or not. Or if its fit for the Somali people

You're taking a microscopic part of the study and blowing it way out of proportion. Nice try.

They reported peoples interpretation and views on Federalism. Not the agenda of of it or how it has suceeded in anything you illiterate sheegato.

Did you actually read the paper in full? Or are you talking out of your backside once again?

The authors stated that many people did not have a strong understanding of federalism, true. However, after the people were properly educated on what federalism entails in Somalia and how it has impacted their life and brought them local control, accountability, and prosperity, the majority of the people support it and prefer the status quo.

Fourth, a robust civic education campaign is needed. Federalism is deeply misunderstood. Even those who vigorously support it have their own interpretations,including the widely held view that it means total autonomy for their clans.

Why don't you include the rest of the quote?

Fourth, a robust civic education campaign is needed. Federalism is
deeply misunderstood. Even those who vigorously support it have
their own interpretations, including the widely held view that it
means total autonomy for their clans. Those who oppose federalism
view it as a tool to divide Somalia and as an externally imposed
arrangement. Both sides should be helped to understand the nuanced
and complex nature of federalism

Once the opposing side was made to understand the complexity of federalism and it's not a tool for dividing those people, they became more accepting of federalism. The final results of the study should still speak for itself.

They made it really clear that federalism is deeply misunderstood especially by those who vigorously support it. This is why this survey was mostly on highlighting the ignorance of the Somali population. This is a purely a study on the different interpretations and misconceptions on Federalism.

Then explain why the conclusions from their own site on the paper is as follows:

"A significant majority of Somalis favor a federal system of governance, despite serious misgivings. This is according to a research project concluded by HIPS that spun across 5 major cities in Somalia.The majority of those surveyed consider federalism as the best way to achieve a power-sharing mechanism among Somali clans whereas a vertical system of governance with a highly centralized unitary state is seen as inherently undemocratic and oppressive. People demand horizontal power structures where they can retain a fair degree of influence at the local level".

HIPS, "Federal Somalia: Not if but how"

Hence why they encourage a more proper educational program that gives them understanding.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that recommendation. Federalism is not well understood by the lay Maryooley, hell even some those working in the various regional governments have a different understanding of what it means. But, it's clearly working as a system and has brought much stability and prosperity to a region that has been plagued by poverty and chaos for decades, and that should all be celebrated and supported.

Why leave out a key point in the study , that a majority of them actually see it as deeply flawed elititst driven and facilitates a scheme at the expense of the citizens?

• A substantial majority still views the current federation process as deeply flawed, because it is a largely elitedriven and externally facilitated scheme that promotes clan identity at the expense of citizenship.

You obviously have a very poor grasp on logic.

People having misgivings and grievances with the implementation of federalism does not say anything about their misgivings about the ideology as a whole. You will many, perhaps a majority of westerners, who despise how democracy is currently being implemented in their countries and feel there are many flaws with the system. Does that mean they want to do away with it and institute another system? Of course not, the vast majority still prefer the secular democratic system. Likewise for federalism in Somalia, as this study has clearly demonstrated.

 

[Geeljire]

You're taking a microscopic part of the study and blowing it way out of proportion. Nice try.

LOOOOL!! because it does not fit with your trolly narrative its miyopic and blowing out of proportions ? haha

Did you actually read the paper in full? Or are you talking out of your backside once again?

The authors stated that many people did not have a strong understanding of federalism, true. However, after the people were properly educated on what federalism entails in Somalia and how it has impacted their life and brought them local control, accountability, and prosperity, the majority of the people support it and prefer the status quo.



Why don't you include the rest of the quote?

I read the whole thing, like i said they were surveying different segments of the population and monitoring the different views and the interpretations on Federalism in Somalia. There is no need to include qoutes, i only did because you left out key highliners.

Once the opposing side was made to understand the complexity of federalism and it's not a tool for dividing those people, they became more accepting of federalism. The final results of the study should still speak for itself.

Not really, on the conclusion part they highlighted that many had poor understanding on it. Qoute me where it said anything about improved understanding of actually influenced posititvity towards it or wether it was noteworthy enough.

Then explain why the conclusions from their own site on the paper is as follows:

"A significant majority of Somalis favor a federal system of governance, despite serious misgivings. This is according to a research project concluded by HIPS that spun across 5 major cities in Somalia.The majority of those surveyed consider federalism as the best way to achieve a power-sharing mechanism among Somali clans whereas a vertical system of governance with a highly centralized unitary state is seen as inherently undemocratic and oppressive. People demand horizontal power structures where they can retain a fair degree of influence at the local level".

HIPS, "Federal Somalia: Not if but how"

What conclusion? They are surveying the different interpretations and views civilians have on federalism. This is not an experiment or analyzation on wether federalism works or not. Its about wether the views of the public fall inline with what the process of federation is about and i

If that is valid explain why the conclusions in the paragraph on first page you took your qoute from it says as follows:

• A substantial majority still views the current federation process as deeply flawed, because it is a largely elitedriven and externally facilitated scheme that promotes clan identity at the expense of citizenship.

• Despite significant support for a federal form of governance, the Somali people’s understanding on the
intricate and the nuanced nature of federalism remains extremely low. This highlights the need for a robust civic

I don't think anyone would disagree with that recommendation. Federalism is not well understood by the lay Maryooley, hell even some those working in the various regional governments have a different understanding of what it means. But, it's clearly working as a system and has brought much stability and prosperity to a region that has been plagued by poverty and chaos for decades, and that should all be celebrated and supported.

Yes that recommendation was the reason for the study so they could test and analyze the ignorance of the population and implement educational programs to give the civilians full context and understanding about the whole process of federalism. So they can actually have real engagement in the discussion and give informed articulative views. It is total irrelevancy if one segment of the population supports it or not at this point since there is huge misundertanding on it nor is this a study highglighting wether Federalism works or is fit for us. Which is why the title of the thread is misleading.

You obviously have a very poor grasp on logic.

People having misgivings and grievances with the implementation of federalism does not say anything about their misgivings about the ideology as a whole. You will many, perhaps a majority of westerners, who despise how democracy is currently being implemented in their countries and feel there are many flaws with the system. Does that mean they want to do away with it and institute another system? Of course not, the vast majority still prefer the secular democratic system. Likewise for federalism in Somalia, as this study has clearly demonstrated.

Nope , you are just a troll trying to mislead people

You left out a conclusive outliner on the first page of the study, which is what i was im asking about. I repeat this is objective review on the different views and interpretations that the different segments of the population have on the process of Federalism. So its important to highlight if they have greviances and what their preceptions of it may be . The point of the study was to highlight conflicting views and the ignorance of the poor educated populous.

 

[Geeljire]

@Duchess @RoobleAlWaliid @miski

One of the most surprising outcomes of this study is the desire for social reconciliation across Somalia. From Kismayo on the far southern tip of the country to Garowe in the northeast, participants highlighted the need for direct, community-to-community reconciliation. It was abundantly clear that what people wanted was not political accommodation but genuine national recognition that heals the scars of the civil war.

One postive thing we can take out of this study is that Somali people want to move on and return to ''Walaalnimo'' again. This is why i remain hopeful.

 

[Rooble]

@Duchess @RoobleAlWaliid @miski




One of the most surprising outcomes of this study is the desire for social reconciliation across Somalia. From Kismayo on the far southern tip of the country to Garowe in the northeast, participants highlighted the need for direct, community-to-community reconciliation. It was abundantly clear that what people wanted was not political accommodation but genuine national recognition that heals the scars of the civil war.

One postive thing we can take out of this study is that Somali people want to move on and return to ''Walaalnimo'' again. This is why i remain hopeful.

We all know people are eager for peace while diasporans are fanning the flamesof war in their cosy qaxooti homes.

This whole article was put out of context and the OP just cherry picked the parts he liked.

Federalism is only good for temporary national reconciliation.

 

[Geeljire]

We all know people are eager for peace while diasporans are fanning the flamesof war in their cosy qaxooti homes.

This whole article was put out of context and the OP just cherry picked the parts he liked.

Federalism is only good for temporary national reconciliation.

Yeah and i think this study just highlights & reafirms that the somali popoulus are aware of the actual problems and have cetain understanding for it. Rather then shout qabyalad or tribalism 24/7 like the diaspora does.

Their claim is that, with devolved power and resources, there will be much less conflict and more cooperation or space between communities. Again, this is easier said than done, but the fact that more than a third of respondents make the association is crucial

So it becomes an increasing must for us to review different decentralization options and powersharing systems, since i don't think federalism is going to work out in the long run.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Not really, on the conclusion part they highlighted that many had poor understanding on it. Qoute me where it said anything about improved understanding of actually influenced posititvity towards it or wether it was noteworthy enough.

"Finally, the need for civic education was all too evident. More than 70 percent of respondents said they learned more about federalism during the course of our presentations and discussions".

Implication: Once the respondents were made aware of federalism, its goals, and what it has achieved for them, they all support the federalist agenda and hail it as a major success. Is there any other possible implication here? No.

What conclusion? They are surveying the different interpretations and views civilians have on federalism. This is not an experiment or analyzation on wether federalism works or not. Its about wether the views of the public fall inline with what the process of federation is about and i

You have no idea what you're talking about. The aim of the study was to find out if federalist system was favored by the people or not. What they learned in the process was that people were not very educated about it or had different interpretations about what it entails. As stated above, once they adequately taught the people about the system and its subtle nuances along with the prosperity and stability it has brought, the people overwhelmingly hail it as the best and most suitable system for governance.

If that is valid explain why the conclusions in the paragraph on first page you took your qoute from it says as follows:

• A substantial majority still views the current federation process as deeply flawed, because it is a largely elitedriven and externally facilitated scheme that promotes clan identity at the expense of citizenship.

Again, grievances. That says nothing about what the people think about the system at a fundamental level, just its implementation and how politicians have corrupted it. Despite that, they absolutely love the idea of more regional autonomy, independence, and their triberuling their respective lands and living with their tribe.

Yes that recommendation was the reason for the study so they could test and analyze the ignorance of the population and implement educational programs to give the civilians full context and understanding about the whole process of federalism. So they can actually have real engagement in the discussion and give informed articulative views.

Not exactly.

"Given the overall absence of reliable data and the desperate need for evidence-based decision making in Somalia, we undertook this
research to fill in the existing gaps in understanding, to raise awareness and to inform policy".

Clearly, the main goal of this study was to get more data on how the population feels about federalism and the status quo. In the process, they learned about widespread ignorance about federalism and what it entails. Once the people engaged in healthy dialogue with others at the offices and with the HIPs academics about federalism, they had developed a better understanding of federalism and thus showed overwhelming support for the system.

What would be interesting and could be further research by these academics is testing whether there is a positive correlation between being educated about the mechanics of federalism in Somalia and support for the system as a whole. Based on the initial results reported in this study, there is good reason to suspect that such a positive correlation exists.

It is total irrelevancy if one segment of the population supports it or not at this point since there is huge misundertanding on it nor is this a study highglighting wether Federalism works or is fit for us. Which is why the title of the thread is misleading.

The fact that federalism is supported by the majority of the people from all tribes and all regions in Somalia speak volumes of its success as a system that is suitable in bringing law, accountability, stability, and prosperity to all regions within the Somali peninsula. As quoted from the study,

"That a significant majority (68 percent) of those surveyed across five diverse cities support a federal system of governance is by far the clearest sign that the question shouldn’t be whether federalism should be implemented, but how best to do so in a way that reduces conflict, enhances social cohesion and ultimately leads to stable and democratic governance".

Contrast this to centralism, which even during the 70s when it was at its peak, only a minority of people from a few tribes supported it while the majority were completely against it and were fighting it. Ergo, the people want federalism, autonomy, and more control and prosperity for their clan at the expense of others.

Nope , you are just a troll trying to mislead people

You left out a conclusive outliner on the first page of the study, which is what i was im asking about. I repeat this is objective review on the different views and interpretations that the different segments of the population have on the process of Federalism. So its important to highlight if they have greviances and what their preceptions of it may be . The point of the study was to highlight conflicting views and the ignorance of the poor educated populous.

Now you're just repeating the same failed arguments that were already debunked earlier in the post.

 

[Imam_Hutuking]

Prophecy: Somali Federalism will drag us towards new Civilwar.


This prophecy (not claiming prophethood!!!!) is made on Saturday 12 december 2015, 00:31 am

 

[Jubba_Man]

@Duchess @RoobleAlWaliid @miski

One of the most surprising outcomes of this study is the desire for social reconciliation across Somalia. From Kismayo on the far southern tip of the country to Garowe in the northeast, participants highlighted the need for direct, community-to-community reconciliation. It was abundantly clear that what people wanted was not political accommodation but genuine national recognition that heals the scars of the civil war.

One postive thing we can take out of this study is that Somali people want to move on and return to ''Walaalnimo'' again. This is why i remain hopeful.

That's just feel-good kumbaya nonsense from the authors to appease the centralists in xamar so that their funding is cut. The fact that the people want more federalism (which is clan federalism in Somalia) and autonomy just shows they don't believe in your "Walaalnimo" BS. For the most part, they want nothing to do with each other and why should they? They murdered each other indiscriminately during the civil war and there has been no justice as the perpetrators and war lords still walk free and many even have high posts within these regional, autonomous governments. When you have your adeer appointing war criminals like Morgan to high posts such as military adviser, your kumbaya "walaalnimo" will continue to be a collective delusion from the past.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Prophecy: Somali Federalism will drag us towards new Civilwar.


This prophecy (not claiming prophethood!!!!) is made on Saturday 12 december 2015, 00:31 am

Hutu-Sage, who do you think this civil war will be between primarily? Which groups have the most cuqdad for each other and will look to completely annihilate the other?

 

[John Michael]

Geeljire why tag me. You hate my opinions.

You'll get high blood pressure by the time you reach 25 of you keep doing this. Jubba man is just a second rate version of borqorta Bantus. It's not that serious.

 

[Geeljire]

Geeljire why tag me. You hate my opinions.

You'll get high blood pressure by the time you reach 25 of you keep doing this. Jubba man is just a second rate version of borqorta Bantus. It's not that serious.

I don't hate anyones opinion, nor do i have anything against disagreements. I'm not that condescending to tell people their opinions are less valuable then mine.

And What opinion tho? i tagged you because you claim to be for Walaalnimo and rep any clan which is why i highlighted a part of the Study where it states that people want reconciliation and not political accommodation. What is there to disagree about? You confuse walahi. *Scratch head*
War nayaa Miski stop being a damn allergic bigot.