Streets of Kigali Rwanda🇷🇼🇷🇼

[GaradShabeel]

Damm it seems like any 3rd world country outside greater somalia looks nice. Somalis should higher foreigners to build their city the same way italians build xamar. Lamagoodles dont know how to make cities

That's what already we do. I've seen Pakistanis/Indians working with mid-level jobs and Chinese (and their companies) with executive jobs and head of projects.

 

[Mr steal your naag 2]

That's what already we do. I've seen Pakistanis/Indians working with mid-level jobs and Chinese (and their companies) with executive jobs and head of projects.

another thing somalis love to do is blame the civil war but djibouti didn had a civil war and it still looks like any somali city. Its a cultural problem

 

[GaradShabeel]

another thing somalis love to do is blame the civil war but djibouti didn had a civil war and it still looks like any somali city. Its a cultural problem

I concur. We need a cultural revolution of some sort to solve this and take inspirations from east Asia, who've had much success in terms of development.

 

[Khaem]

I oftentimes hear about a false equivalence/comparison between Somalia and Rwanda. While both countries may have had a civil war and Rwanda having a deadlier outcome than us, the difference is that their war had a clear 'winner'.

The same Rwanda Patriotic Front who had a victory then are still ruling the country today under one president for 30+ years. Their gov't forced everyone to reconcile with each other, many of the perpetrators faced justice and installed a semi-authoritarian leadership that has been able to maintain stability and thus push with their developments.

Had one of the warring rebels or even MSB been able to retain power, Somalia would've looked differently today. In any case, I concur and hope that Xamar and Somalia may enjoy success one day.

Yeah this is disingenuous.
Somalia is the way it is because there is no one single power.
Not one group has a monopoly on violence to put everyone in check like Rwanda.

Somalia needs a clear winner of the war and a single group that can take charge of the whole country. Only then can we have actual development.

There should be a somali nationalist party & millitary taking power. Members from all clans.

 

[Khaem]

another thing somalis love to do is blame the civil war but djibouti didn had a civil war and it still looks like any somali city. Its a cultural problem

Djibouti is shit but it's like an average african city. Petty industries and doesn't pruduce any manufactured goods. And money gobbled up by dictatorship.

Djibouti is a standard sub saharan African nation in terms of how it's run. Somalia isn't run at all close to how Djibouti's centralised government is.

Djibouti is basically a city state run like a family buisness. All major corporations in the country are owned by IOG's family or friends. Especially his wife.

 

[Khaem]

I concur. We need a cultural revolution of some sort to solve this and take inspirations from east Asia, who've had much success in terms of development.

A cultural nationalist revolution is what is needed.
No clanism. Just a government of hard individuals and a millitary to keep everyone in check.

Any group like Al shabab controlling a city? Bomb the niggas and go home. Very simple.

 

[Mr steal your naag 2]

Yeah this is disingenuous.
Somalia is the way it is because there is no one single power.
Not one group has a monopoly on violence to put everyone in check like Rwanda.

Somalia needs a clear winner of the war and a single group that can take charge of the whole country. Only then can we have actual development.

There should be a somali nationalist party & millitary taking power. Members from all clans.

I think everybody won in the civil war but also everybody lost. Everybody wanted their region to be patrolled by their own clan and that happened. But at the same time every region is run by a corrupt person that takes care of his family. And build something once in a while

 

[Khaem]

I think everybody won in the civil war but also everybody lost. Everybody wanted their region to be patrolled by their own clan and that happened. But at the same time every region is run by a corrupt person that takes care of his family. And build something once in a while

Division of a country already small population wise in a poor region is a lose for everyone.
There's a reason in African countries like Ethiopia whenever a ethnic/regional millitia group defeats the government instead of declaring independence they take over the country and rule.

This is because in already poor countries like in Africa, dividing up the nation will leave you with even less.
All African countries rely on exporting natural resources which will be lost to many regions if they get independence.

So these groups just rule and steal the countries wealth. But somalis are so blinded by clans they don't realise they will remain poor petty states forever if they divide their region.

No single clan state in Somaliweyn whether it be Djibouti, Puntland, somaliland ect will even make it to even middle income status. All somali states will remain some of the poorest.

The only way to develop is to centralise and utilise everything the country has to build industry.

The clan/state/group that sees this fact and aims for national unification will get rich beyond anything africans can dream of.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Can it be argued that Hawiye and usc won the civil war as they took the capital?

No because Mogadishu technically isn't really a capital. None of these clans where formally under a single kingdom and have there own centers or capitals. You literally have to dominate all the other groups like what isaaq did in the North to orginally form somaliland. I think personally that the isaaqs where retarded for stopping in what they call somaliand because they where in the best position to dominate all the clans at the start of the civil war when they secured somaliland. Them walking onto the capital and controlling each area on there way south would have been the equivalent of what the tutsis did.

Plus since they are not of Mogadishu it would have lead to none of the other clans rising up since it would lead to everyone turning on what ever group rose up to them because the clans in and around the southern region have more beef between each other and would rather see a third party in power as opposed to any of there other rivals. That would have worked if we wanted qabil to work alongside a stable somalia.

Regardless tho in this scenario a good leader with his people's interest in mind would be needed otherwise another civil war/coup would break out at some point.

Another option is absolute domination from one clan that completely breaks down the other clans and relocates and spread all the other clans thin. While facing out the whole clan system. That's kind of hard now because people are more educated now tho.

This "democracy" we have now simply won't work

 

[dekiteshim]

this like showing the good side of mogadishu kkk, rwanda is shithole but they cover themselves up real good

 

[dekiteshim]

Look at Rwanda vs Burundi. Same demographics and climate. Only difference is one is ruled by Tutsis while the other by Hutus

 

[Khaem]

Look at Rwanda vs Burundi. Same demographics and climate. Only difference is one is ruled by Tutsis while the other by Hutus

Cushite excellence.
We'll send a horde of oromos to them and they'll breed like rats. 20 million cushites there in a decade

 

[Haragwaafi]

Rwanda had a civil war at around the same time as Somalia. Today this is them.

When will Somalis and Somalia wake up and work towards the hormar and stability of Somalia.

And one side has one that civil war that's the Tutsi minority that has been ruling the country for 25 years now

 

[Odious Delirium]

No because Mogadishu technically isn't really a capital. None of these clans where formally under a single kingdom and have there own centers or capitals. You literally have to dominate all the other groups like what isaaq did in the North to orginally form somaliland. I think personally that the isaaqs where retarded for stopping in what they call somaliand because they where in the best position to dominate all the clans at the start of the civil war when they secured somaliland. Them walking onto the capital and controlling each area on there way south would have been the equivalent of what the tutsis did.

Plus since they are not of Mogadishu it would have lead to none of the other clans rising up since it would lead to everyone turning on what ever group rose up to them because the clans in and around the southern region have more beef between each other and would rather see a third party in power as opposed to any of there other rivals. That would have worked if we wanted qabil to work alongside a stable somalia.

Regardless tho in this scenario a good leader with his people's interest in mind would be needed otherwise another civil war/coup would break out at some point.

Another option is absolute domination from one clan that completely breaks down the other clans and relocates and spread all the other clans thin. While facing out the whole clan system. That's kind of hard now because people are more educated now tho.

This "democracy" we have now simply won't work

Even the somalis in kenya, djbouti or the ones in ethiopia could have done it except that for the most part none of them where ever in such a strong position compared to the isaaqs at the start of the civil war. plus they had there own issues to deal with when it came to the ajnabis around them

 

[Haragwaafi]

The thing is someone actually won there civil war and has been in full power ever since. The tutsi qabil came out on top over the hutus. In somalia the qabils are still all at large and there still isn't a clear winner. As well as Al shabbab.

Keep in mind also that unlike them we had external interventions that broke the Islamic court and created al shabbab which keep the qabil war going.

If ICU was allowed to run the country I would have abandoned SL and become somaliweynest under Islamic court's rule

 

[Odious Delirium]

If ICU was allowed to run the country I would have abandoned SL and become somaliweynest under Islamic court's rule

Icu would have lead to a much more united qabil free somalia today. A modern theocracy that would have worked. The west didn't want that at all and intervened creating al shabab and breaking the seize fire and qabil unity the icu created.

Another equivalent to the icu would be the best thing to destroy qabil and make all somalis loyal to somalinimo/somaliweyn. That's the best alternative and would be something all somalis could partake in and benefit from.

 

[Khaem]

Even the somalis in kenya, djbouti or the ones in ethiopia could have done it except that for the most part none of them where ever in such a strong position compared to the isaaqs at the start of the civil war. plus they had there own issues to deal with when it came to the ajnabis around them

Djibouti is a centralised state that generates money and has an organised army compared to the millitias.
Only problem is that Djibouti is so badly run despite having no civil war it's an actual joke. The man that could've made Djibouti a great state was killed by France in a plane crash and a puppet regime was put in place with our currency, the Djiboutian Franc, tied to Paris.

If Djibouti managed to send the french home and used the revenue from ports and bases we could've been the richest state and most advanced millitary in the continent. We have the money it's just being stolen by the dictatorship.

Had we overthrown the dictator with an actual leader of the Issa who willcheck the afars and develop the military we could've easily taken somalia and United the country. But IOG doesn't even care about ciise or somalis in general. He does what France tells him to and he steals wherever he can. Truly cursed.

 

[Natalie]

100%, Rwanda is blessed as alot those evil perpatrators of the Genocide faced justice or fleed, many were excuted and placed in comcentration prison camps

Murderers, Rapist, Evil people who commited crimes against Humanity are still walking free and happy in streets of Xamar today

The people who committed genocide leading to a whole clan wanting to secede are not in Xamar. Many Rwandan war criminals were never punished.

 

[Khaem]

Icu would have lead to a much more united qabil free somalia today. A modern theocracy that would have worked. The west didn't want that at all and intervened creating al shabab and breaking the seize fire and qabil unity the icu created.

Another equivalent to the icu would be the best thing to destroy qabil and make all somalis loyal to somalinimo/somaliweyn.

Ajuuran and Adal was a theoceacy. At one point the two empires controlled nearly all Somalis at the same time.

The ICU was destroyed by Ethiopia who was scared of a Somali Nation so they lied saying they were affiliated with terrorists and since this was the hieght of the "war in terror" aka the modern crusade on the middle east. America & Co. Helped invade and overthrow the Somali goverment in 2006 throwing somalia back into civil war.

Ethiopians always calling on the west to fight us since the 1500s these niggas are insane.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Ajuuran and Adal was a theoceacy. At one point the two empires controlled nearly all Somalis at the same time.

The ICU was destroyed by Ethiopia who was scared of a Somali Nation so they lied saying they were affiliated with terrorists and since this was the hieght of the "war in terror" aka the modern crusade on the middle east. America & Co. Helped invade and overthrow the Somali goverment in 2006 throwing somalia back into civil war.

Ethiopians always calling on the west to fight us since the 1500s these niggas are insane.

America told them to invade and ethiopia obliged