Somalis Are U Capitalist Or Communist
- Thread starter DR OSMAN
- Start date
@Revolutionary if Liberals stepped away today in America and disappeared or let's say formed a new nation with the south gone into another country, you know that the south would be no different to a 3rd world economy with large farming base just like Somalia? that's all conservatives lead to a poor overall country with a thin 'class' of business similar to Somalia that is totally concentrated into consortiums and groups who pool their wealth and lock down the production points and accumulate wealth.
This leads to downturn in consumption as the society shifts from mixed low-middle-upper to a big dip in all the money in the upper and the middle totally absent with nothing but a lower class being overpopulated and this being so large a pool with no consumption power leads to over-all business investment to drop. It might sounds cool to have a few rich but in market philosophy it's an insane economic direction since in market economics it's not about one or the few, it's about the whole market and what's best for it even if it means punishing one business for the overall market to grow.
Most of the economy in America is concentrated into liberal areas for a reason. If it wasn't for liberals 90% of america wouldn't exist in the key areas of medicine-tech-academics-schooling-hollywood n theater - arts- banking. Even tho banking is argued it's conservative industry as their risk conscious with their capital but it's all happening on the 'backs' of liberal innovation and skilled workforce.
This leads to downturn in consumption as the society shifts from mixed low-middle-upper to a big dip in all the money in the upper and the middle totally absent with nothing but a lower class being overpopulated and this being so large a pool with no consumption power leads to over-all business investment to drop. It might sounds cool to have a few rich but in market philosophy it's an insane economic direction since in market economics it's not about one or the few, it's about the whole market and what's best for it even if it means punishing one business for the overall market to grow.
Most of the economy in America is concentrated into liberal areas for a reason. If it wasn't for liberals 90% of america wouldn't exist in the key areas of medicine-tech-academics-schooling-hollywood n theater - arts- banking. Even tho banking is argued it's conservative industry as their risk conscious with their capital but it's all happening on the 'backs' of liberal innovation and skilled workforce.
Somalia needs to be a communist state for around 10 years and switch to being a Socialist state prioritising natives.
That's a tough question, I never really thought about it since most western countries are mixed economies with low-middle-upper classes existing, I mean yes not all are identical in how national wealth is distributed in their various wealth classes with America leading the way in an over-distribution of national wealth towards the upper end of the bracket and a weakening unions and minimal interference, low taxes being the corner-stones of their market economy and I don't see much govt measures to cap wealth either thru large taxes or simply banning companies who have expanded beyond an 'asset n wealth threshold' in ratio to national GDP to ensure 'diversity' and others to fill the production vacuum so it doesn't lead to an oligarchy
So it's good question which country has the best economic model, I like bits n pieces and here n there for various liberal economies like I don't like america wealth-redistribution model as their lower class is rising and their middle is getting poorer in ratio to GDP while the thin upper class r getting wealthier, I don't like that economic model whatsoever.
Even though I like the democrats if I had to choose between republican or democrat but their still very much 'conservative' in comparison to Australia and Europe and not doing much intervention like land subsidies, concessions, healthcare, wage laws, promoting unions to shift the lower class in society into the middle bracket of GDP per capita of their nation and expanding the middle class share of national wealth.
It was quite common not to long ago back in the 50-90s after the world wars were over and reconstruction was happening, so many people survived fine on one household income, had various properties in the city n country or coastal plus retirement package and shares. Now u don't see that at all and their lucky just to get one house for two income household, cost of living has risen and has led to less disposable wealth for the middle class as they start the pathway towards 'upper poor class' and the poor class then becomes 'middle poor and lower poor' and broken down into 3 sub-groups like the ultra rich are.
But good question bro, i'll have to think about it but at this stage I wud say Australia/Canada Europe is probably the type of liberal economy I prefer where even the conservative parties are on the center and do not shift to the right at all and the center left only shift as that's really what the parties are starting to look like with no disagreements between parties on middle class being the engine and largest shareholder of the national wealth they only debate now how it's done and measure taken not the actual objective
@Distant1 I believe for a healthy market you need healthy people if this isn't in place it can lead to a deterioration of the product your producing or service being provided plus long unproductive time each year due to health issues, shorter life spans and not getting long term value out of them long-term due to attrition, plus most importantly it leads to 'knowledge' gap with the experienced all dying away before doing knowledge transfer to the next generation.
So I am big on healthcare as a mandatory thing like education and literacy/maths is or else you cannot develop a skill without basic literacy/numbers/thinking skills as any product need a skill and a skill is dependent on basic education and advanced education.
I am also big supporter of land intervention like Australia did post world war 2, where they allocated huge land to the boomer generation and all they paid was mortagage, it's responsible for the highest construction boom in their history and led to so many companies and skills developing as a result thru supply chain from plumbers-electricians-carpenters-maintainance-construction material companies-window companies-door companies-nuts n bolts-key companies just that housing vision let to most of australia wealth generation and all it was a simple 'land zoning' and plots sub-divided to workers based on a percentage of their income not on market rates. It was primarily responsible for their post world war 2 economic boom.
I am big supporter that Somalia does the same for it's working class irrespective if their unskilled or skilled as this will lead to an incentive for people to work when they know they can afford a home thru govt intervention on land prices and adjusting it to income classes such lower income and middle income getting the land at small fee or rate so they only have to pay for construction side. Plus it creates a beautiful supply chain in response and employment generation on mass scale to keep up with the housing demand and construction companies eat well and become a primary industry and banking sector eats well also as their wealth grows thru capital growth on loans and over-all taxation for govt gets larger thru a simple land zoning policy.
So I am big on healthcare as a mandatory thing like education and literacy/maths is or else you cannot develop a skill without basic literacy/numbers/thinking skills as any product need a skill and a skill is dependent on basic education and advanced education.
I am also big supporter of land intervention like Australia did post world war 2, where they allocated huge land to the boomer generation and all they paid was mortagage, it's responsible for the highest construction boom in their history and led to so many companies and skills developing as a result thru supply chain from plumbers-electricians-carpenters-maintainance-construction material companies-window companies-door companies-nuts n bolts-key companies just that housing vision let to most of australia wealth generation and all it was a simple 'land zoning' and plots sub-divided to workers based on a percentage of their income not on market rates. It was primarily responsible for their post world war 2 economic boom.
I am big supporter that Somalia does the same for it's working class irrespective if their unskilled or skilled as this will lead to an incentive for people to work when they know they can afford a home thru govt intervention on land prices and adjusting it to income classes such lower income and middle income getting the land at small fee or rate so they only have to pay for construction side. Plus it creates a beautiful supply chain in response and employment generation on mass scale to keep up with the housing demand and construction companies eat well and become a primary industry and banking sector eats well also as their wealth grows thru capital growth on loans and over-all taxation for govt gets larger thru a simple land zoning policy.
@Distant1 Australians were not rich post world war 2 and in recovery from world war 2. If it wasn't for that govt intervention, I doubt the resulting economy would've occurred as they were all linked to that govt intervention policy to boost up the middle class and shift the lower class into home ownership and asset ownership which led to large earnings n job creation for construction companies, supply chain actors, and banks who finally got their borrowing/lending game to increase and thus increase their wealth capital.
Once the middle class had assets it was easier for the small-medium type of business to get a loan from the bank on their asset collateral which led to the 'growth in small to medium businesses' and why now the middle class are largest engine in the nation and with the largest employee segment. It finally led to unions-political parties standing up for this large powerful segment in the nation and it's interest and hence the great right/left divide about workers and investors grew stronger.
If Somalia doesn't do a similar policy, these people aare not going to miraculously join the middle class and have home ownership and it sure as hell won't happen due to businesses giving more money freely unless their is wage law enforced which isn't possible at this stage of somalia economic development due to large supply of unemployed, but their is no excuse for not setting aside large 'tracts of land as dan guud' for the emerging new class who only get it if they are workers and have 1-2 year track record of stable employment.
Once the middle class had assets it was easier for the small-medium type of business to get a loan from the bank on their asset collateral which led to the 'growth in small to medium businesses' and why now the middle class are largest engine in the nation and with the largest employee segment. It finally led to unions-political parties standing up for this large powerful segment in the nation and it's interest and hence the great right/left divide about workers and investors grew stronger.
If Somalia doesn't do a similar policy, these people aare not going to miraculously join the middle class and have home ownership and it sure as hell won't happen due to businesses giving more money freely unless their is wage law enforced which isn't possible at this stage of somalia economic development due to large supply of unemployed, but their is no excuse for not setting aside large 'tracts of land as dan guud' for the emerging new class who only get it if they are workers and have 1-2 year track record of stable employment.
Honestly im very pessimistic about somalia if im being realistic. I believe the window of opportunity has been lost. Forces like climate change and overpopulation will wreck whatever is left and make rebuilding somalia impossible. Not to mention religious fanaticism and lack of democracy. The list is very long.
I never understood why they breed more when production hasn't increased at the same rate, chinaa one child policy was a policy to allow infrastructure and production to catch up and not be out-stripped like Indian large brown futos all over the place yet their economy and infrastructure hasn't growed nearly at the same rate of those brown futos breeding kkkkk. I know u must 'cringe' when you see the birth-rates in Somalia but it's a common thing in poor countries for some odd reason they say is they think 'thru higher numbers their survival is more likley' or some weird shit like that kkkkkk, where-as your living standard simply drop when u have more asses and less market. I mean u got 15 million hovering around 7 billion dollars worth of products/goods/services/food/water and minimal infrastructure, surely u see the problem the 'scarcity' issue happens on product side leading to unhealthy people due to population load vs market load kkkk
@Distant1 with all fariness to @Farjano-Walad and his libertarian or centre right idealogy. One of the only points ever raised by this camp that hold to reason is the fear of all powerful govt who can dictate military/police/education/health/plus have the largest wealth in the land thru taxation. They argue this is concentrating power n wealth like the commies wanted and redistributing to weaken the 1% so there is no check n balance on govt and the middle/lower being targetted by them sounds nice and appeals to the masses emotions but the real agenda behind it they say is to keep the 1% diverse, not concentrated, divided on interest, and poorer thru re-distribution at their income bracket which is shifted into the low class to shift them across into the middle thru intervention programs. So they argue they want to be all powerful govt thru economic liberalism while crying social liberalism and enpowering the masses which they argue have largest wealth group but it's sub-divided so much it won't hurt the govt to control them where-as with the 1% the more concentrated it gets they think it will lead to ogligarch alliance vs the govt like russia is today.
They argue the govt has an agenda to stop wealthy business class stopping as it may check n balance the govt and hence redistribute any company or consortium who is taking to large of a share in the production pie. It's still down to that center idea where they merged on we don't want an all powerful govt nor do we want all powerful business, they have a fear of 'concentration of power or wealth' anywhere which is on 'both' sides to be quite honest but once they meet at that center point, their true colors start to show when they start to back policies for strong 1% or strong policies for redistribution of top 1% thru taxation which is the method they use in America but in Australia they will cap your ass as having to much in wealth thru wealth to gdp ratio and industry culling begins with the largest dog feeling the brunt so it's not in their interest to go to 'big' cause they will bring u down in Australia either large 'taxes' or a busines reaching their industry ownership quotas.
They argue the govt has an agenda to stop wealthy business class stopping as it may check n balance the govt and hence redistribute any company or consortium who is taking to large of a share in the production pie. It's still down to that center idea where they merged on we don't want an all powerful govt nor do we want all powerful business, they have a fear of 'concentration of power or wealth' anywhere which is on 'both' sides to be quite honest but once they meet at that center point, their true colors start to show when they start to back policies for strong 1% or strong policies for redistribution of top 1% thru taxation which is the method they use in America but in Australia they will cap your ass as having to much in wealth thru wealth to gdp ratio and industry culling begins with the largest dog feeling the brunt so it's not in their interest to go to 'big' cause they will bring u down in Australia either large 'taxes' or a busines reaching their industry ownership quotas.
I
I am very much communist/ facist especially when it comes to my people (somalis) were too proud to accept democracy. What we need is a dictator very much like barre one that doesn’t kill for qabil but for somalinimo once we get that wallahi somaliweyn will become a superpower
The only thing I disagree with libertarians or center right, it's far better an all powerful govt with strong check n balances thru parliament and courts and anti corruption bodies and on top of that federalized and even better if it was representative govt with head of state the monarchy, it reduces the chances of them abusing power due to so many checks at so many level. Where-as with ogligarch and the free market, there is no checks on those 1% and they are far more dangerous to the well being of people then government is thru market domination and then govt domination and nobody can do nothing since it's free market.
What somalia needs is government I cannot stress this enough once somalia gets government and unity/stability we can seriously have an economic boom rivalled only by that of the Asian tigers/Asian superpowers. One of the main factors of the Korean economic miracle was US money flowing in paying the soliders for engaging in the Vietnam war and to oppose the communist north used correctly and invested into things like education and infrastructure. The reason they needed this US money was the lack of capital to facilitate their growth be it in the form of investment or natural resources. Somalia doesn’t have that problem. We receive foreign aid pretty often and we have billionaire/millionaire businessmen that are itching to invest back home all over the gulf, europe, america and Africa. We also have an astonishing amount of natural resources for a country our size as well as our rich seas alongside ports like Mogadishu, kismayo, bosaso and garowe and this is emphasised even futher by the negotiations of increasing the capacity of bosaso and berbera ports. We have the capital to have an Asian miracle, now how did they do it? Stay on the good side of the US whilst also being very communist but not open about it. Korea only held its first real elections in the 90s and china is still authoritarian. If they did it why can’t we? What we need is a mix of both communism and capitalism but not in the form of a mixed economy but in the form of an authoritarian state much like the Chinese model but with a 100% free and open market. One of the main halters in chinas miracle was the lack of an open market and one of the main halters of the the Japanese miracle was a country too open where protests and international community interference could take place which is why I cannot stress this enough we need both an open market and an authorial government and I don’t even have to mention this but the whole concept of “qabil” is to become illegal. Say your qabil you get a bullet in the head quick and clean and any politician who disclosed his qabil to anyone at all is getting banished from politics for good. What we need to do is simply put follow the Asians were in a similar position to him. Be kinda like gadafi he followed the asian aproach and as the west dies asia is rising. Gadafi managed to make Libya the largest stakeholder in Libyan oil which is relatively easy for us to do since china is thirsting for oil rn and since this whole scenario is based on Somalia being mainly communist China would offer protection from the US. They would already have a military base in our country (Djibouti, the most northern state is somaliweyn) getting on china’s good side is also viable since we hold strategic positions between europe and the Chinese cities whilst also having a stake in the Red Sea. All in all we need a dictator that’s open to capitalistic aspects. Never in my life have I seen a place with so much wasted potential in my whole life as Somalia, so much can go wrong and we would still be rich and powerful asf thts how good of a position Somalia could be in if qabil was just estinguished
@DR OSMAN I kinda want your insight on what I said so you know..........type
A dictatorship is a hard sell one it's not their culture due to the freedom loving nomadism values instilling individualism to 'extreme' levels to the point of social and national neglect. They are very individualistic sxb even here in the diaspora they prefer jobs with lots of autonomy like small one man business or taxi or truck driver. They don't seem to hold any respect for authority or cooperation which is why you see in their towns it looks nice inside the home but just two steps outside it's a sewage kkkkk no sense of societal responsibility and it's most likely due to the individualism and small close knit family mindset developed thru thousands of years of nomadic living which is not going to be easy to stamp out either thru a dictatorship or not as many forms of govt have been tried with them from 'adal sultanates' and 'various southern sultanates' and they end up destroying it themselves like hawiye destroyed ajuuraan sultanate. They simply not a people who make decision and stand by it and hold the course.
As for the liklihood of dictatorship, it's slim to none. There isn't a global power that is coming to arm one clan up more then the other especially with the arms embargo, in order for dictatorship to be successful you need international consensus to step out of the Somali conflict and barr any suppy lines for the rest of the nation and only have supply line. The liklihood this will happen is slim to none as it's not seen as long term stability project but one done so thru frustratation due to the stalemate in the nation.
Social reconciliation is the first thing that needs to happen, good leaders come from within the people, if the people are rotten, the leaders have no-one holding them to account in their clan, once social reconciliation is done properly and I mean all the wound have to be opened up, cases investigated during the civil war, prior to the civil war, prior to the nation state even as some shit goes back a long time, all need to be agreed that it needs resolving once and for all anad no-one can go anywhere untill it's concluded one way or another as it's not fair for the next generation to be held back due to some silly grudge and mistrust that developed from it.
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