Somali's and their hypocrisy with religious law

[GemState]

Despite every region claiming it, Sharia isn't enforced in Somalia. Hudud isn't enforced anywhere. We really should stop lying to ourselves. Whem extremists point out this hypocrisy, it is not a lie.

It's totally cosmetic, we should be honest and say we aren't trying to build a Islamic State but a secular Nation-State that happens to have a Muslim majority, similar to a Senegal, so religious law isn't going to be a factor in creating laws.

 

[Neptune]

Just because you don't see lashings and stonings doesn't mean we don't have Islamic laws. Our constitution mentions Islam as the religion of the state, that is inherently not secular.

 

[GemState]

Just because you don't see lashings and stonings doesn't mean we don't have Islamic laws. Our constitution mentions Islam as the religion of the state, that is inherently not secular.

The current constitution declares Somalia to be a Muslim country and prohibits construction of new churches, propagation of religions other than Islam, and the rebuilding of decaying churches. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Canada, Sweden or the UK declares itself a Christian state, prohibits building of mosques or the propagation of Islam. Imagine the uproar. Why hold yourselves to a lower standard?

What I'm saying is Somalia needs to think long term. Al-Shabab, ICU, etc all didn't fall from the sky. There is a strain in our society that believes Sharia will fix everything, and want to create a society that looks like Taliban-Pashtun controlled Afghanistan. Look at Burco nearly lynching a girl for wearing trousers. I'd prefer Somalia to look like Senegal than Afghanistan.

 

[Neptune]

The current constitution declares Somalia to be a Muslim country and prohibits construction of new churches, propagation of religions other than Islam, and the rebuilding of decaying churches. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Canada, Sweden or the UK declares itself a Christian state, prohibits building of mosques or the propagation of Islam. Imagine the uproar. Why hold yourselves to a lower standard?

What I'm saying is Somalia needs to think long term. Al-Shabab, ICU, etc all didn't fall from the sky. There is a strain in our society that believes Sharia will fix everything, and want to create a society that looks like Taliban-Pashtun controlled Afghanistan. Look at Burco nearly lynching a girl for wearing trousers. I'd prefer Somalia to look like Senegal than Afghanistan.

If the government did what you're suggesting and declared itself secular, they would lose the support of the people. This would embolden extremists. This isn't Sudan or Senegal or any other country. It's hard to compare Somalia to them.

 

[balanbalis]

Look at Burco nearly lynching a girl for wearing trousers

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[Afar indhood]

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I thought Northerners were irreligious and such behavior was accepted.
The ones I met are mostly that. Few daacish-type salafists. Nothing in between.
Weird folks.

 

[Zak12]

Sharia already is implemented, but its mixed in with western law and traditional Somali law. This is no different to how countries like Oman or Malaysia function with their law.

 

[balanbalis]

I thought Northerners were irreligious and such behavior was accepted.
The ones I met are mostly that. Few daacish-type salafists. Nothing in between.
Weird folks.

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[Pizza man]

The current constitution declares Somalia to be a Muslim country and prohibits construction of new churches, propagation of religions other than Islam, and the rebuilding of decaying churches. Imagine if the roles were reversed and Canada, Sweden or the UK declares itself a Christian state, prohibits building of mosques or the propagation of Islam. Imagine the uproar. Why hold yourselves to a lower standard?

What I'm saying is Somalia needs to think long term. Al-Shabab, ICU, etc all didn't fall from the sky. There is a strain in our society that believes Sharia will fix everything, and want to create a society that looks like Taliban-Pashtun controlled Afghanistan. Look at Burco nearly lynching a girl for wearing trousers. I'd prefer Somalia to look like Senegal than Afghanistan.

I agree with you overall but comparing Somalia to these nations is false equivalence cuz we never presented ourselves as a multi religious country that protects your freedom of religion, just because these countries did doesnt mean we have to follow their model.

Also this is more than a Somali problem, its a common pattern in every muslim country and it wont go away as long as we ignore the root of the problem ie upholding the same orthodox understanding of islam for 1000+ years and denying any attempts to modernize it

 

[DR OSMAN]

Sharia already is implemented, but its mixed in with western law and traditional Somali law. This is no different to how countries like Oman or Malaysia function with their law.

I'm big on Neo traditionalism and Somali traditional law, not a huge fan of secular other then I do prefer it's show me vs singing n chanting it type of motto and how the land, office, institutions is central to laws first not human or faith or even social identity(the Somalis don't understand the human component is intentionally eradicated and infact all laws is about how to ensure human element is reduced as much as possible due to its toxicity).

As for Shariah I can't speak on it as I haven't seen any successful model(just alot of yapping n clapping not real thing that can be shown) Saudi Arabia is a kingdom first not Shariah, the king comes first and Shariah is secondary and why Saudi isn't islamic land it's Saudi land lol

Alot of these people who promote Shariah are just some other idealogy and trying to win social credits using the god card or have some political or financial interest, but I won't say the system is bad tho due to this shortcoming, It could be its great system just toxic humans so I haven't dismissed it alright but I ain't a fool either I don't see anything on the planet to validate it.

 

[Burqad]

All of sharia isn’t hudud

 

[Midas]

All of sharia isn’t hudud

This seems to be a very common misunderstanding people have. Most of premodern sharia was actually concerned with other stuff like commercial law. The problem is that most people even in the muslim world have an understanding of sharia that is shaped by western understanding.

 

[Midas]

You also don't legislate morality using sharia with coercive state power.
That's why theres no country with maybe the exception of iran where its illegal to not wear a hijab. (Im not talking about social consequences and stuff but it being an actual crime)

 

[Burqad]

This seems to be a very common misunderstanding people have. Most of premodern sharia was actually concerned with other stuff like commercial law. The problem is that most people even in the muslim world have an understanding of sharia that is shaped by western understanding.

The hudud is only 10% of sharia. It was classically understood that the standards of the hudud were often too high to maintain, it’s actually an innovation in many cases to carry out the hudud in a mass manner.

 

[reer]

Sharia already is implemented

 

[Zak12]

Amisom are scum but 99% of Somalis don't get impacted by this.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Despite every region claiming it, Sharia isn't enforced in Somalia. Hudud isn't enforced anywhere. We really should stop lying to ourselves. Whem extremists point out this hypocrisy, it is not a lie.

It's totally cosmetic, we should be honest and say we aren't trying to build a Islamic State but a secular Nation-State that happens to have a Muslim majority, similar to a Senegal, so religious law isn't going to be a factor in creating laws.

You're, but it's because the regime was created to prevent establishment of Sharia.

Sharia already is implemented, but its mixed in with western law and traditional Somali law. This is no different to how countries like Oman or Malaysia function with their law.

no it isn't

 

[World]

You also don't legislate morality using sharia with coercive state power.
That's why theres no country with maybe the exception of iran where its illegal to not wear a hijab. (Im not talking about social consequences and stuff but it being an actual crime)

The state forcing women to wear hijab is modernism not shariah, it never existed before 100-150 years ago.

 

[El Nino]

Despite every region claiming it, Sharia isn't enforced in Somalia. Hudud isn't enforced anywhere. We really should stop lying to ourselves. Whem extremists point out this hypocrisy, it is not a lie.

It's totally cosmetic, we should be honest and say we aren't trying to build a Islamic State but a secular Nation-State that happens to have a Muslim majority, similar to a Senegal, so religious law isn't going to be a factor in creating laws.

This will not change this century. Somalis are not secular and no future government will be one. Our society is conservative with one major flaw.

The weakness of institutional power due to clannism. Governments are powerless at controlling clans, not being able to punish their members as that will be interpreted as an act of war or prefential treatment. Kacaan government came close but they fücked up horrendously in the end. ICU also came close but were not allowed to rule for long. AS has subdued clans underneath it bar few and its the only somali led organisation in the HoA that has been successful in this.

The khawariji dogs have been successfull due to somali society being conservative. They showed their true colors after gaining power, being extremely ruthless. Thats how they have been able to maintain their power but its not the reason why they gained it. They will in the end lose their power due to harshness.

There is only 2 ways to govern somalis on a large scale. Clan confederations or Islam based organisations. PL and SL came into existence after local clans banded together. As we have seen in the war in Sool, clans trying to subdue each other ends up in disaster. PL has been peaceful due to practically being one clan state and having close blood relations with the other clans that live there. SL has also been peaceful outside of Sool and Sanaag, once again because of being one clan state and being blood relative of the other clans.


So how can we govern somalis across clan borders? Islam. Only answer we have. Kacaan failed. We are not secular. Only thing that matters is if the people have food in their bellies and they can become rich. That will only happen if somalis learn to work and respect each other, which will happen of we implement sharia correctly.
Somalis will not care if hudud punishments will be carried, they will cheer for them. We seriously underestimate how conservative we are and especially how big of a percentage of our population is conservative. Few ilbax folks have distorted our view of somalis.


@reer You had a similar post way back, @Burqad you too if I remember.