Somalia should never be fully ruled by the law of Allah

[Gacmeey]

Would that not cause people to become munafiqs then? Whats stopping apostates from lying to save their lives?

I’ll point you to my earlier post but summarising it apostasy law isn’t merely just about believing in God but about the moral implications it presents.

One of the best paragraphs I have come across regarding apostasy:

"Apostasy, it must be said, is not just an act of rejecting the Muslim God, for, on its own, it is merely a summative declaration that implies and encompasses certain collective and foundational derivatives. It is indeed the moral implication of this declaration that was at the heart of the matter. Fundamentally, therefore, apostasy is the rejection of the moral instruments that fashion the moral subject. If it is one side of the coin, jihād is the other. Apostasy law intends to curb the moral damage of the Community’s inner sphere, and jihād intends to protect and, if possible, expand the limits of that sphere."

 

[veryberry]

I’ll point you to my earlier post but summarising it apostasy law isn’t merely just about believing in God but about the moral implications it presents.

can you link the rest of this please

 

[Gacmeey]

can you link the rest of this please

It’s from a book called the impossible state by Wael Hallaq a Christian professor who is a leading western authority on Islamic law. It’s not about apostasy but it goes into depth about what Islamic governance is historically and why it is incompatible with the modern nation state. There is a detailed 4 part YouTube series going through the book tho.

https://bdpad.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/wael-b-hallaq-the-impossible-state_-islam-politics-and-modernityc3a2e282ace284a2s-moral-predicament-columbia-university-press-2013.pdf

 

[Angelina]

What does shariah mean tho?

In Shafi/Maliki/Hanbali madhab, those who miss their salah out of laziness are to be executed. So should somalis implement this law in which anyone missing salah out of laziness is to be killed? Should CCTV be installed in public to monitor whether people are praying when outside, and an intelligence agency to track it? Is that shariah?

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[attash]

What does shariah mean tho?

In Shafi/Maliki/Hanbali madhab, those who miss their salah out of laziness are to be executed. So should somalis implement this law in which anyone missing salah out of laziness is to be killed? Should CCTV be installed in public to monitor whether people are praying when outside, and an intelligence agency to track it? Is that shariah?

The shariah is the word of Allah, the sunnah of His prophet, the consensus of the scholars, and analogical reasoning. If the opinion you cited does not have support from any of these sources, pipe down.

Lmao at all these youth who grew up in the west, and all its freedoms wanting a taliban style government ruled by religious law. Religion is fine and beautiful but has no place in government the two spheres should not mix because one will corrupt the other just look at what the taliban is doing to their country banning women from education, from showing their faces, banning their voices those men hate women, and that is unislamic, and some of you want that for somali women who are known to be the forefront of our families.

Imagine wanting shariah law back home but then you realize you live in a kufr country with democracy lol

I never understood this reasoning, because I live in the west I have to agree with everything they do? There are daycares in the west with "sexual exploration rooms", do I have to agree with this? Drag queens, khamri, third world exploitation, do I have to agree with all these things?

There are things in the west that I agree with and benefit from like (limited) capitalism, technological innovation, elections, universal education, infrastructure, etc - but do any of these things contradict shariah? As for the things here that are against the shariah like the khamri, zina, drugs, usury, immodesty, I don't engage in these things so I don't see how it is hypocritical for me to not want them in my country.

Agreed. Ataturk was too soft in my opinion, now Turkey has wannabe Sultan Erdogan running the show.

Atakafir killed ulama and massacred his own citizens, yet you say he was too soft. I guess your "freedom and human rights" don't apply when people who disagree with you.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

no wants live in Sharia hell holes like kuwait, Qatar and Oman instead secular utopia instead of Bashar's Syria

*no one wants to live in a Sharia hell holes like kuwait, Qatar and Oman instead of secular utopia's like Bashar's Syria

 

[JamalFarah]

Communism hindered our economic growth, while nationalism and tribalism dominate our politics, causing division and conflict. Islam, on the other hand, serves as the unifying force for all of us, with Sharia as the law that treats all believers equally. At its heart, Somalia is an Islamic society rooted in the Somali nation.

Many here are being dishonest, with atheist making up lies. No one is executed simply for missing Salah out of laziness. Salah is a fundamental pillar of Islam, and neglecting it due to laziness implies placing personal desires above the will of Allah. The majority of those who miss Salah do so not out of disbelief but due to impulsive decisions, which is why the concept of making up missed prayers exists. Can you provide a single example of someone being executed for lazily missing Salah?

Our God is the most merciful. Even when a man confessed to the Prophet about committing adultery, the Prophet turned away, showing mercy. An Islamic society is the opposite of a totalitarian state like in "1984"; it is one where only severe and openly committed transgressions brought before the state are punished. Crimes committed in the shadow are the domain of Allah SWT.

 

[World]

Communism hindered our economic growth, while nationalism and tribalism dominate our politics, causing division and conflict. Islam, on the other hand, serves as the unifying force for all of us, with Sharia as the law that treats all believers equally. At its heart, Somalia is an Islamic society rooted in the Somali nation.

Many here are being dishonest, with atheist making up lies. No one is executed simply for missing Salah out of laziness. Salah is a fundamental pillar of Islam, and neglecting it due to laziness implies placing personal desires above the will of Allah. The majority of those who miss Salah do so not out of disbelief but due to impulsive decisions, which is why the concept of making up missed prayers exists. Can you provide a single example of someone being executed for lazily missing Salah?

Our God is the most merciful. Even when a man confessed to the Prophet about committing adultery, the Prophet turned away, showing mercy. An Islamic society is the opposite of a totalitarian state like in "1984"; it is one where only severe and openly committed transgressions brought before the state are punished. Crimes committed in the shadow are the domain of Allah SWT.

Are you scared to @ me or replying to my posts? Calling random people atheists for posting what madhab say?

 

[reer]

Are you scared to @ me or replying to my posts? Calling random people atheists for posting what madhab say?

i remember imam ghazali mentioning that he is executed and prayed upon. but i dont remember how many salahs they are executed for.

 

[World]

i remember imam ghazali mentioning that he is executed and prayed upon. but i dont remember how many salahs they are executed for.

This is what the reliance of traveller says (shafi fiqh book )

 

[Haragwaafi]

Yes all Somali territories should be ruled by Shari'ah

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

Somalia needs laws that reflect the modern world. Clinging to outdated systems from the 6th century without the natural resource wealth to back it up will result in failure. Even Saudi Arabia is abandoning Sharia. It’s time to move on.

You guys always talk about how certain countries “didn’t fully implement sharia and therefore sharia is not to blame for its problems” but when has that ever been the case? There is a reason why the most pro-sharia countries don’t fully implement sharia.

They only implement the authoritarian aspects of sharia law that give them an excuse to oppress their population or use sharia some family/civil laws. Other than that, they won’t touch sharia. The people who actually try to implement sharia or always terrorists or extremists. It’s time you guys reflect on yourselves and ask why is that?

Basically what I’m trying to say is that Sharia is an outdated system from a bygone era and should never be used in the modern age. A system which is inherently oppressive and restricts freedom, creativity and expression.

Horrid take. Your view that Sharia is "outdated" even though it came from Allah who is all-Knowing. Countries often do not fully implement Sharia not because it is oppressive but due to economic and political pressures. Labeling has always been the case when advocating for good. What freedom are you talking about? Honestly am I even talking to a Muslim?

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

only diaspora who have never been to somalia or a muslim country advocate for sharia from the safety of the west truth is most people are terrified of sharia and do not want it. having your hands cut off for something as little as stealing or being killed for shaving your beard among other things is way too much

Then don't steal simple right? Or can you not contain yourself.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

murtads in this thread talking about how somalia should be ruled in the future as if these freaks are a part of the team lol

 

[Afeik_Abiy]

Imagine being a murtad and giving a shit about what happens in Somalia lol

 

[World]

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It’s not theoretical is it though? It’s the established opinion in most madhab. If al shabab or taliban started doing that, everyone would start condemning them but that’s what the madhab say. We got people out here saying saudi is not muslim enough and are kaafir for not “implementing gods law fully” and “no shariah country exists in the word” this is the argument of the khawarij. Saudi is a muslim country and they’re islamic, only extremists argue otherwise. The khawarij only want to cause turmoil, instability and anarchy in muslim countries, under the guise of bringing shariah.

 

[abdi_]

can you link the rest of this please

I have a digital copy of the book, the following three pages are around that excerpt:

 

[Gacmeey]

We got people out here saying saudi is not muslim enough and are kaafir for not “implementing gods law fully” and “no shariah country exists in the word” this is the argument of the khawarij. Saudi is a muslim country and they’re islamic, only extremists argue otherwise. The khawarij only want to cause turmoil, instability and anarchy in muslim countries, under the guise of bringing shariah.

You’ve fundamentally misunderstood the argument. Yes Saudi is a Muslim country and its people are muslim. This does not mean Saudi has a shariah framework in terms of its conception of law. Its conception of law is napoleonic. If you want to say shariah exists today you are going to have to argue for that.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

It’s not theoretical is it though? It’s the established opinion in most madhab. If al shabab or taliban started doing that, everyone would start condemning them but that’s what the madhab say. We got people out here saying saudi is not muslim enough and are kaafir for not “implementing gods law fully” and “no shariah country exists in the word” this is the argument of the khawarij. Saudi is a muslim country and they’re islamic, only extremists argue otherwise. The khawarij only want to cause turmoil, instability and anarchy in muslim countries, under the guise of bringing shariah.

But shabab does force people to pray within their territory?

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Horrid take. Your view that Sharia is "outdated" even though it came from Allah who is all-Knowing. Countries often do not fully implement Sharia not because it is oppressive but due to economic and political pressures. Labeling has always been the case when advocating for good. What freedom are you talking about? Honestly am I even talking to a Muslim?

No