Somalia Centralist/Federalism Summary

[DR OSMAN]

Centralism

Do we want a highly centralized state? this means mogadishu and officials
control your health, education, infrastructure, security, currency, and every
function of your state. They will be named from Mogadishu and given their policy
from Mogadishu as a national agenda. One ruler controls the nation type of government
Similar to siyad style. Everyone else will all just be officials of the central government.

You will have no power in naming your officials, creating your policy, at best all you
can do is take your orders from the central government and execute. Your state will be controlled from Mogadishu that's if you even allowed a state as centralism can mean many things. They can allow you to have a state but it will be controlled from Mogadishu at all times. They will just be a figurehead and symbolic official there.

Federalism

Central government can only deal with 4 areas such as military, currency, foreign
affairs, and immigration matters. They can set the national agenda on these topics
name it's officials, form it's policy, and also handle it's execution.

Anything outside of those 4 areas such as health, business investments, education,
infrastructure or anything outside of those 4 duties is none of their business.
They can not name any official, not handle any policy, nor interfere in the delivery
of such service. That is a state matter according to our constitution. The people of that state decide on their leader and he controls their government, policy, and delivery functions. They have their own separate criminal/civil courts for their regional areas. Not symbolic government but has power to run his affairs outside of the 4 core areas of the federal government.

The grey areas that need to be agreed on between state and federal authorities.

Taxation, Resource sharing, judicial matters like civil/criminal/constitutional courts
parliament matters state vs federals and which legislation each handles. That's basically
the grey areas they haven't even discussed in the nation and spending all their time
mixing up their roles in central/federalist ideas.

My dad watched this and said they should be having these type of discussions the centralist/federalist if their arguments hold any water not going around implementing something nobody even has agreed on. It's like PL trying to build a government without ISLAN Mahamed who didn't bring the clans together on some little wisdom of 'yaan lays dilin' oo 100 meel loo fasiray hikmadasi such as we are not killing anything worthy enuff to bring peace between us, the one's we kill is reborn tommorow so the status quo remains. It created a ceasefire to build something on top of which is the government puntland has. He said where is the islan mahamed of centralist or federalist, horta wax aan ku heeshino intanan loo gudbin dawlad dhisid.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I am kind of convinced in a way maybe the federalist/centralist argument is a way to create a smokescreen to keep the status quo alive, cause who else benefits? just telecoms/banks who are growing each year in profits, while the rest of nation isn't growing at all. My father is adamant that all this argument is just to keep the status quo. He said they need more islan mahamed in Somalia, to bring about commonality on some such issue so they can leap towards the next issue of building a government and from there create 'policies' and 'delivery' functions.

Everything starts with an idea first and ends in 'delivery' and we are all mixed up in idea and delivery. Wax kasto waa stage by stage. Horta yaan lays dilin, take all the ciidaan outside of the city, common agreement between all clans, why? cause they see it's pointless going in circles. Now they sit to discuss the next stage. Government. They agreed they don't want to be in caloosha wadan kale hence unity, then they moved to the idea 'dawlad yar bay dawlad wayn ku gaynaysa' islan mahamed said that in puntland conference. Dawlado yar yar ayaa wax ka dawlad wayn dhali karta. Hence federalism was the policy of and still is till today. Untill we see the centralist convince hawiye inay hal meel laga mamulo, puntland waa madaxbanan tahay, even somaliland since way jireen before dawlada federalka.

 

[DR OSMAN]

My dad is adamant the centralist, hawiye haday ka dhadhicin karan oo ku mamuli karan iyo horumar ay timaado, puntland way tanasulaysa ileen wadaniyin baan nahay wax qaranka ku heeshino, kama hor imanayso, ileen waan aragnay dhibatada ka timi feker xumidi ssdf uu horseeday dalka inay manta 40 years gadaal uuu dhacan. The problem isn't PL, he said. Let hawiye control hawiye hal meel aan aragnee hadi aysan isku dilin. He is adamant hawiye will never allow

My dad is adamant, somalia manta waa reer mudug, siday iyagu uu nool yihin nooc kale maba shaqayn karto. Qabyalaad bay isku hukuman reer muduga, xaad ayaa uu dhaxayso, wayna ku nooladan sidasi. The whole nation needs to be set up like mudug people, because they all now follow the same mentality. We can't go back to urban style my father remembers, in yar ba ka nool sidisa oo kale, the majority around him are reer mudug mentality, so he is thinking the best for the people not for himself. Cuz he knows the reer mudug mentality, he came from miyiga, but he also knows magaalo iyo siday ahan jirtay. He can connect to both societies so he doesn't care how somalis return, isagu wax kama waayi doono. He has connections and built up his sumcad in the cities, plus he knows siday reer miyiga uu shaqayan. So don't twist this shit around and say my dad has some qabiil agenda. He loses no way, the only one losing is somali ppl right now.

My dad has been exposed to boqortoyo mentality since his apart of osman mahmoud. He knows reer miyi since he is reer nugaal, which was miyi and his clan lives there. He knows magaalo, he went to hamar as a teenager. Qof noocasi ma jogga dalka kuwasi ayaa kala cabiri karo the different lifestyles and whats best for somalis today because they can qiyaas somalida meeshay taalo dhinaca maskaxda.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The only thing my dad provides no advice on is beeralayda koonfuur as he didn't have much time to learn the culture and their mentality, but he still listens to shirib, to understand their mentality. But wuu ka tanasula advice dhinacasi. But miyi, magaalo, and boqortoyo he knows those areas very well. He was around those places for long time.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I am baffled by Somali culture nowadays in comparison to what I was taught about the past. Why you bothering with Dhulbahante or Warsangeli if your from Somaliland? Horta idinku isku qancinaya gooni goosadku iyo inaad calool ajnabi galaysan sida djibouti. Horta idinku iska dhadhiciyay, hala imadina dhulbahante iyo warsangeli, just work on yourselves as Isaaq. Why go to Samaroon? Like makes no sense when Isaaq isn't even united. U see how stupid somalis are? Like why is Hawiye talking about JL/PL/KGS? horta hawiye ku qancin inay mamul xoogan oo dhexe qaatan oo aysan shaqo ku lahayn amarkisa iyo qorshahisa oo adeegayaal noqonayan sida siyad barre. Horta iyagu ka soo dhadhiciya.

At least puntland majerten waa ka soo dhadhiciyay intaysan harti radin. Start with yourselves somalis and we would be at peace, don't come near me while your clan is divided. It's obvious Somalis prefer inay ka cararan dhibaatada beelahooda dhex tagan si ay meel kale ku mashqulan, which can only be said to benefit the telecoms/banks keep making profits in the suuq madow environment. That's all that can be said, you don't wanna fix your problem and waste somalis time on other clans. Get fucked waryaa

 

[DR OSMAN]

If you go to Puntland. Same Hadaf unity bay aminsan yihin. Dawlad Nooce ah? federal. All waa aminsan yihin. Their not creating a new HADAF for them or trying to change them. They are not interested in having 100 foreign bases on their land, dadku way kici lahayeen as they feel their not independent to protect themselves so they reject secession. But they also won't accept a siyad style government in Somalia. They prefer qabiil walbo inu isqurxiyo kadib wax la dhisto ileen waxaa la dhali kara dawlad wayn oo qurxoon. They agree on that.

In aysan is dilin way ku heeshiyeen which means even if u try to disturb them from inside like some siyasi or outside like shabab, weligeed iskuma badelayso dagaal beeleed, ileen hadafkoodi horey bay ku laabanayan in aan lays dilin oo lagu heeshiyay hikmadasi inaysan keenaynin xal fog and we just keep reproducing the same people we killed. The ones who try to disturb PL inside or outside will never reach the goal of clan war, they are only there for some other agenda possibly sent from telecoms/banks in the nation to cause instability not civil war as they won't return to that as they agreed about such things. Instability achieves status quo for some in the informal economy as they might be worried something is brewing up that could disturb their business profits. They send in siyasi they know who will cause problems or someone the people will riot about.

Did PL agree to in qoriga layska dhigo, kumaysan heeshin lakin in bananka magaaloyinka lagu haysto. Do you see them going around creating some fantasy that they solved this? no, they are working on it. Do they have effective criminal/civil/constitutional courts probably not but their working on it. They just need to reach consensus now on criminal/civil/constitutional courts which need strong 'codified book' based on the principle of a Common law for the land no matter where you are in PL districts you fall under this common law for criminal/civil/constitutional matters.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The SFG can simply control galmudug/hirshabelle, when they prove that centralism works and they control all the state functions of GM/HS and they become like symbolic officials oo hamar laga soo mamulayo qorshahooda iyo iyaga laga dhigayo adeegayaal iyo hubka iska soo wareejiyan oo nabad ku helan, ha uu aadeen baydhabo kadib kismaayo. Markas ayay PL isku laaban karta oo dhihi karta war nimanki way ku heeshiyeen, aan tanasul samayno si aan dadkasi nabada ku nool loo marin habaabin. Lakin inay taa dhacayso somali way og tahay iyo illahina wa og yahay inaysan weligeed dhacaynin. 1 sano kadib waxad arkaysa galmudug mamul kale samayste ama dagaal xoogan dhacay iyo isqabqabsi aan dhamaad lahayn waa siday shirarka centralismka uu burburi jireen. Their really wasting their time mogadishu

 

[DR OSMAN]

PL isku meel ma joggo koonfurta, hence it can't be involved. They can walk down their streets, koonfurta cannot. Different priorities, THE SFG mandate is koonfuur meel kale ma aha. Inta kale waa waqti dhumis iyo meel kale laga soo jiidayo(bakaraha telecoms and banks) who send call these siyasi to inject policies and turn shit tribal or diini si uu dalka sidisa ahaato. Nuclear bomb hadi lagu turi laha bakaraha, iyo kuwa ku xiraan dalka intisa kale waa xirmi lahaa, somali dhab ba imaadi lahayd oo muran dambe jiri jirin.

PL wuxu jogga waqti inu soo dhamaayo a constitutional court, to simplify and modernize their taxation, ensure criminal/civil courts are working and across the whole region. Their in a later stage of development. Ma joggan waqti amni la xalinayo runti

 

[DR OSMAN]

Anyways guys my dad said hawiye oo hal mamul isku raci karin gm/hs haka sugin inay hamar ka yeelayan hal mamul oo laga soo magacabayo loogana talinayo meeshasi. Absolutely waqtiga bay raban inay dalka ka qaadan oo dadkasi hadafkooda ku badelan hadaf shaqsi diaspora ah. It's just extending somalia has no government. He said galmudug waa kan ugu shiido badan, haday iyagu isracan waaba guul wayn loooooooool. HS hadayna iyagu isracan oo arimahooda ka fudud tan galmudug oo waxgarad badan laga dilay. He said he doesnt count the civilians wala dhali kara kuwasi, he means the ones who cant be reborn today.

The funny thing is the SFG said our oil in the sea can be extracted. Yeah the sea is peaceful but the land isn't, so if people in somalia lived in the sea, we would cause chaos there also. See the people are the problem in this nation, where-ever they are they disturb it. Dhibku ma aha hayawaanka look at the sea for example, you can work with them.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman The constitution of Somalia doesn't really effect PL/SL since they existed before the SFG was born in 2004. That's when it was born. Anyone who is built after such time comes under this constitution. It's a southern regions.

Heck even Galmudug tried to argue they do not come under it because the constitution was made in 2012 and Galmudug existed before in 2007. But that wasn't proper Galmudug it was just baraxlay, ximan iyo xeeb had another one, ahlul sunnah another one in dhusomareeb. The proper galmudug must of come after 2012 and hence they now fall under this new constitution. They must argue the government can only manage 4 functions military, currency, immigration, and foreign policy and to stay out of the health, education, business investment, infrastructure, and all of the areas the constitution has said isn't their business.

PL/SL can have independent foreign/currency/military/immigration policy even, the constitution said they are independent untill such time the constitution is ratified by both all stakeholders in the region and mogadishu. Till then PL should just keep doing what it wants and not interfere with Mogadishu and Mogadishu doesn't interfere in PL. Isku mandate maba tihin untill constitution is official.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The SFG should map out the nation and say these are the regions of 2012 kadib when the constitution was drafted and signed. Before then 'dawlad ku meel gaar ah' bay ahayd. It was transitional government and not even an official government. If Jubaland or KGS existed before 2012, ma tabanayso dasturkasi, if they didn't then they come under that constitution also. The constitution is for any administration after 2012.

But it looks like this constitution is for Galmudug to Jubbaland to KGS. They are the only administrations born after 2012. This can only concern them. Even then it's only 4 areas military/currency/immigration/foreign affairs. Development/Education/Health/Infrastructure none of that is the business of the SFG. Nor is the way they elect themselves, every government they choose will hand over 4 responsibilities to the SFG regardless who it is. So they shouldn't care who rules those places because anything outside those 4 core areas is outside of the mandate of the SFG.

The SFG job is just development in mogadishu since the status of mogadishu will most likely be federal territory. They will fall under the SFG who handles their education, health, infrastructure, business investments. But we don't even know the status of mogadishu if it will be handled by the local mogadishu council or the SFG. This is truly a mess. They need to sit down all of the southern regions and decide what they will hand over the FEDS and what the FEDS is not going to get.

The regions can say stay out of our affairs as they can form their own government, handle their elections, run their own parliaments, and courts. They can handle their own business investments, health, education and infrastructure. The SFG is told you manage our immigration, military, currency, and foreign affairs. But even in Foreign affairs they need to split it if it effects regional areas they still need to talk together about it especially foreign development, federal security, etc.

It's very clear constitution if you read it. SFG sticks to military-immigration-currency-foreign affairs. While Mogadishu status is undecided, the SFG can handle the policy and delivery of development/health/education/infrastructure of MOGADISHU ONLY not the REGIONS. The regions must handle it's own education model, health services, infrastructure services, business investment services from policy to delivery with no interference from SFG. The SFG needs to negiotate with Local mogadishu mayor that their relationship will be reviewed once the status of mogadishu is clarified if it falls under the local banadir government or the SFG. Most likely the SFG will handle it. Mogadishu will be like other cities with local council.

 

[DR OSMAN]

PL handles the policy side of the state, it forms the policy in consultation with the districts but the districts handle the delivery side as each local city has his own officials and administration to ensure they execute the policy vision of the state. The other regions I am not sure. But I do know in PL when you don't have a local council, you are excluded from development because there is no delivery arm in your district. Hence PL is the policy and idea generation for the region but the local councils are the executing function so it reaches the people. Sometimes the local councils feed their requirements to the state government to form a policy and gather funds.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

@DR OSMAN These folks are not serious sxb about completing the dastuur. They always complain about states acting like countries but wont sit down to finalize a permanent dastuur which will separate powers.


How many years and presidents wasted time to complete this very crucial tthis? These folks are doing this on purpose in the hope of defeating Federalism.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@DR OSMAN These folks are not serious sxb about completing the dastuur. They always complain about states acting like countries but wont sit down to finalize a permanent dastuur which will separate powers.


How many years and presidents wasted time to complete this very crucial task?

Yes they should just stick to managing the states born after 2012 and Mogadishu. That's enough work right there for those areas and define the SFG role and Region roles. Let's see them work together under the constitution, before they come to PL wallahi, cause it makes them look like fools and people who are not serious about doing their jobs.

PL/SL do not have to be involved until such time the constitution is completed and agreed upon. They will not agree to a constitution untill they see it working in the south anyways. They need proof it works in the south before they will even discuss anything with the SFG about their relationship with the SFG. The SFG will negiotate with PL/SL only after such time they have fulfilled their mandate in the south. Cuz the dastuur is clear waa madaxbanan yihin mamulada ka hor dhismeen dawlada federalka. That's code word for PL/SL not falling under the constitution untill it's OFFICIAL. And it won't be made official untill they see the south at peace.

Why would they take their people to a place that isn't at peace? this is unreasonable to ask for anyone. So the south needs to prove they can work under this constitution and respect each other role, not interfere, get along for a number of years, develop, hand over their weapons, etc. PL wants to see proof before they gamble away their stability and join the south.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman Just do the maths. Civilians are not prospering from this conflict. Politicians/Crazy shabab are not prospering. Only one ticking over profits are telecom/banks. Their definitely involved and pushing these people from the background to ensure their business is not disturbed. Infact they call it the informal economy(that's code word for suuq madow) lol. It's not FORMAL economy that falls under a government.